Separation of Church and State

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Of course water won’t defy physics because a man raised a staff in front of it. God made the water defy physics.[/quote]

gee… that makes perfect sense[/quote]

Does to me. If God is omnipotent, he can separate waters infinitely easy.[/quote]

Thats the problem. To believe it, you first have to believe it. Otherwise you’d be silly enough to say it didn’t happen because it goes against everything else that has EVER hadppened EVER.

Ever wonder why God suddenly stopped doing all that stuff? Why God never makes water defy physics in front of crowds of people with video cameras? Why all the impossible accounts from the bible never happen these days when things can be documented and observed?

Because he does them in front of the humble. St. Aquinas and St. Francis both levitated. Sounds like God breaking physics.
[/quote]

No, they didn’t. Levitation is impossible. They did not levitate. Its really that simple.

[quote]
Also, about the burden of proof - it lies on a person making a claim in the positive. Hence, I dont have to prove that I didn’t kill someone, you have to prove that I did. I dont have to prove that I didn’t steal something, you have to prove that I did. You dont have to disprove my claim that my friend has a magic wand - I have to prove that he does, because I’m making the positive claim.

Unless you have some solid evidence that magic wands dont exist?[/quote]

I could, but you’d never be “satisfied.”

I think you’d want to talk to the Jews about Moses, as I don’t know much about him, just pointing out that if someone wanted to believe in the separating of the Red Sea that they could as God can do it. Now, the issue if we’re required to believe that actually happened or not.[/quote]

We’re not, because it never happened.

262

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I would also like to point out that EVEN IF one was Marys lineage, one account goes back 28 generations to David and the other 44.

So, unless Josef and Mary lived in alternate universes, I would at least expect the number of generations to match, give or take one or two.

[/quote]

Why would you?

“More than a dozen solutions have been proposed to harmonize them (the two genealogies). At the very least, it should be recognized that gaps are a common feature in genealogical registries from antiquity. There are also many examples in Scripture of one person having more than one name - a fact that must be considered when attempting to identify the ancestors of Jesus (Solomon/Jedidiah).” - Dr. Hahn.[/quote]

Still, at least a 200 year gap.

No amount of “harmonizing” will fix this.

Now if we assume that they did the best they could “inerrant” is out of the window.

[/quote]

I don’t get this 200 year gap. What does this have to do with anything?[/quote]

Well, let us assume that one geneology is indeed Marys.

First time in the Bible and wholy inadequate to proof that Jesus descended from David because female lineage is pretty much irrelevant here, I would still expect the generations leading back to David to be roughly the same.

If however 10-12 are missing we are talking about a 200 year window here that is unnacounted for.

Both cannot be right, it does not add up.

[/quote]

Why would it matter if 10-12 are missing, this isn’t a modern genealogy. [/quote]

Because the bible is supposed to hold no contradictions?

[/quote]

So, some people are missing, how is that contradictory? They just aren’t the same.

263

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Still dodging I see.[/quote]

I haven’t made the claim that the Bible is inerrant, show me where I did. If I haven’t made the claim, why do you insist that I prove a claim I haven’t made.[/quote]

You make it OVER and OVER and OVER. Then you try to pull this bullshit:

“So, even though the Bible is not fallible, it is not infallible either.”

264

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Of course water won’t defy physics because a man raised a staff in front of it. God made the water defy physics.[/quote]

gee… that makes perfect sense[/quote]

Does to me. If God is omnipotent, he can separate waters infinitely easy.[/quote]

Thats the problem. To believe it, you first have to believe it. Otherwise you’d be silly enough to say it didn’t happen because it goes against everything else that has EVER hadppened EVER.

Ever wonder why God suddenly stopped doing all that stuff? Why God never makes water defy physics in front of crowds of people with video cameras? Why all the impossible accounts from the bible never happen these days when things can be documented and observed?

Because he does them in front of the humble. St. Aquinas and St. Francis both levitated. Sounds like God breaking physics.
[/quote]

No, they didn’t. Levitation is impossible. They did not levitate. Its really that simple.

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible.

265

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?

266

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

How isn’t it impossible? Criss Angel isn’t half the magician god is. Criss Angel Levitation - YouTube

267

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Still dodging I see.[/quote]

I haven’t made the claim that the Bible is inerrant, show me where I did. If I haven’t made the claim, why do you insist that I prove a claim I haven’t made.[/quote]

You make it OVER and OVER and OVER. Then you try to pull this bullshit:

“So, even though the Bible is not fallible, it is not infallible either.”[/quote]

Inerrant and infallible are not the same thing, sorry brother.

268

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible.

269

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:
“and if he is telling the truth.” That’s the real question.[/quote]

Correct.[/quote]

Actually, there’s “information” that Jesus once existed. I can’t remember the spelling of his name but I believe it’s Tacitus, he once made mention of him. I believe he spoke of Jesus over 30 years after his death and made no mention of a resurrection or other biblical events, only speaking of something like an “extreme punishment during the reign of Tiberius”.

Somehow I’m thinking a person performing miracles would have gained the attention of people during that time.[/quote]

I wish I had my book on this stuff, I happened to lose it at work (I work with thieves and liars, so no surprise) so I’ll see if I can’t get a second copy. But historically you need three sources to confirm something. Well, there is and even more evidence, Tirib may be able to help you out on this though.[/quote]I think he’s lookin for Josephus the historian.

270

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible. [/quote]

Isn’t it more than 750?

271

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:
“and if he is telling the truth.” That’s the real question.[/quote]

Correct.[/quote]

Actually, there’s “information” that Jesus once existed. I can’t remember the spelling of his name but I believe it’s Tacitus, he once made mention of him. I believe he spoke of Jesus over 30 years after his death and made no mention of a resurrection or other biblical events, only speaking of something like an “extreme punishment during the reign of Tiberius”.

Somehow I’m thinking a person performing miracles would have gained the attention of people during that time.[/quote]

I wish I had my book on this stuff, I happened to lose it at work (I work with thieves and liars, so no surprise) so I’ll see if I can’t get a second copy. But historically you need three sources to confirm something. Well, there is and even more evidence, Tirib may be able to help you out on this though.[/quote]I think he’s lookin for Josephus the historian.
[/quote]

That would depend on what you consider evidence.

272

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible. [/quote]

ONE GUY? ONE GUY says levitation is impossible. ONE GUY doubts the idiotic stories from the bible.

Yes. Clearly I’m the only one.

I’ve got HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of telling religious idiots like you that their stupid myths never actually happened. Don’t play the longevity card with me, moron, skeptics were calling bullshit on religion ages before your pussy carpenter got nailed to a hunk of wood.

273

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible. [/quote]

Isn’t it more than 750?[/quote]

St. Aquinas lived during the 13th century.

274

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible. [/quote]

ONE GUY? ONE GUY says levitation is impossible. ONE GUY doubts the idiotic stories from the bible.

Yes. Clearly I’m the only one.

I’ve got HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of telling religious idiots like you that their stupid myths never actually happened. Don’t play the longevity card with me, moron, skeptics were calling bullshit on religion ages before your pussy carpenter got nailed to a hunk of wood.[/quote]

Yes…and you’re argument is so convincing. Sorry, I’m a skeptic against bullshit arguments.

275

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible. [/quote]

ONE GUY? ONE GUY says levitation is impossible. ONE GUY doubts the idiotic stories from the bible.

Yes. Clearly I’m the only one.

I’ve got HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of telling religious idiots like you that their stupid myths never actually happened. Don’t play the longevity card with me, moron, skeptics were calling bullshit on religion ages before your pussy carpenter got nailed to a hunk of wood.[/quote]

Yes…and you’re argument is so convincing. Sorry, I’m a skeptic against bullshit arguments.[/quote]

I dont need to argue that people cant levitate. It’s a fact. So, all your stories of people levitating are not true. They are lies. If you believe them, you are stupid.

Its simple, really - if you believe in stupid things, you’re stupid, and I’ll let you know. Don’t want to be called stupid? Stop believing in stupid things.

276

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible. [/quote]

ONE GUY? ONE GUY says levitation is impossible. ONE GUY doubts the idiotic stories from the bible.

Yes. Clearly I’m the only one.

I’ve got HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of telling religious idiots like you that their stupid myths never actually happened. Don’t play the longevity card with me, moron, skeptics were calling bullshit on religion ages before your pussy carpenter got nailed to a hunk of wood.[/quote]

Yes…and you’re argument is so convincing. Sorry, I’m a skeptic against bullshit arguments.[/quote]

I dont need to argue that people cant levitate. It’s a fact. So, all your stories of people levitating are not true. They are lies. If you believe them, you are stupid.

Its simple, really - if you believe in stupid things, you’re stupid, and I’ll let you know. Don’t want to be called stupid? Stop believing in stupid things.[/quote]

Interesting…why do you care so much?

277

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible. [/quote]

ONE GUY? ONE GUY says levitation is impossible. ONE GUY doubts the idiotic stories from the bible.

Yes. Clearly I’m the only one.

I’ve got HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of telling religious idiots like you that their stupid myths never actually happened. Don’t play the longevity card with me, moron, skeptics were calling bullshit on religion ages before your pussy carpenter got nailed to a hunk of wood.[/quote]

Yes…and you’re argument is so convincing. Sorry, I’m a skeptic against bullshit arguments.[/quote]

I dont need to argue that people cant levitate. It’s a fact. So, all your stories of people levitating are not true. They are lies. If you believe them, you are stupid.

Its simple, really - if you believe in stupid things, you’re stupid, and I’ll let you know. Don’t want to be called stupid? Stop believing in stupid things.[/quote]

Interesting…why do you care so much?[/quote]

Because I recently read a post on here where a christian described genocide as a way to save children from a life of sin and deliver them to the hands of the Lord Sky Wizard.

It reminded me of the danger of letting idiots let stupid fantasies rule their lives - they willfully give up their own ability and responsibility to determine right from wrong and act accordingly. So, when they can justify something, no matter how atrocious, through the context of “God said it was ok!”, they become extremely dangerous.

278

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

How is levitation impossible? I’m going to believe tradition over one person saying it is impossible. [/quote]

You’re going to ignore all the evidence you’ve ever seen, ever to believe an unverified and unverifiable report which was spread through word of mouth and then through several language and dialect revisions?

How is levitation impossible? Really?[/quote]

Hey, so far I got 750 year tradition…against one guy that says it is impossible. [/quote]

ONE GUY? ONE GUY says levitation is impossible. ONE GUY doubts the idiotic stories from the bible.

Yes. Clearly I’m the only one.

I’ve got HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS of telling religious idiots like you that their stupid myths never actually happened. Don’t play the longevity card with me, moron, skeptics were calling bullshit on religion ages before your pussy carpenter got nailed to a hunk of wood.[/quote]

Yes…and you’re argument is so convincing. Sorry, I’m a skeptic against bullshit arguments.[/quote]

I dont need to argue that people cant levitate. It’s a fact. So, all your stories of people levitating are not true. They are lies. If you believe them, you are stupid.

Its simple, really - if you believe in stupid things, you’re stupid, and I’ll let you know. Don’t want to be called stupid? Stop believing in stupid things.[/quote]

Interesting…why do you care so much?[/quote]

Because I recently read a post on here where a christian described genocide as a way to save children from a life of sin and deliver them to the hands of the Lord Sky Wizard.
[/quote]

That is retarded, you can’t “save” children from a life of sin by killing them. And, who the fuck is Lord Sky Wizard?

Actually free will and self control are both big things in the Catholic Church. So not sure who you’re talking about.

And, I’ll say it again. There is no private revelations, so if someone tells them God said it was okay after they did something atrocious, will you please throw them in the psyche ward for all of us.

279

I can tell CappedAndPlanIt is very angry.

How many times do I have to say that I would never condone the killing of a child. Divine revelation is done and God will never ask anyone to do such a thing. I am NOT a menace to society. The story of Joshua was thousands of years ago.

Judging from your extreme hate talk Im starting to worry about my safety.

280

[quote]forbes wrote:
I can tell CappedAndPlanIt is very angry.

How many times do I have to say that I would never condone the killing of a child. Divine revelation is done and God will never ask anyone to do such a thing. I am NOT a menace to society. The story of Joshua was thousands of years ago.

Judging from your extreme hate talk Im starting to worry about my safety. [/quote]

There is a difference between public and private revelation. However, unless you’re Catholic you don’t likely believe in public revelation.