Self-Defense: The Right Thing to Do?

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
5.0 wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote: Yada Yada
AlteredState wrote: Chimma limma ding-dong

I’m waiting for the day Altered and Bushy go at it…

I heard Altered does things sexually to bushy.

Dude, everyday I see you with the ghey posts. Ai-yai-yai, methinks you have it - teh ghey!

Bushy[/quote]

It’s strange, they never seem to post in the same thread, except for this one, where Bushy picked up where Alt left off…

Wait a second…Are you guys cousins or something? I knew it!

[quote]jj-dude wrote:
Kataklysm wrote:
Sorry but who the fuck are you man? Do I give a damn about how long you’ve been teaching MA? What does that have to do with anything? Calling me names and calling me a kid, you’re the one giving me shit for no reason and beeing unrespectful. I never even spoke to you. Straighten up.

OK, maybe I did overdo it. Sorry. Just my last friend who did something like this got shot a dozen times then stabbed about 50 times. He left a wife and a little daughter. Obviously that is a sore point with me and I just need to work through that to see it your way. Right?

Whatever with all your legal stuff, the way I see it, I was assaulted and threatened and I defended myself. I’m a kid, I fucked up, so do you on a daily basis. If you don’t have anything constructive to say I don’t need your lecture.

That “legal stuff” is self-defense. I stand by my assertion that you escalated it, continued to engage and then found yourself in over you head. I am glad nothing happened to you or them. Believe it or not, I am trying to keep you alive.

– jj
[/quote]

I understand your point and I agree. I’m only so much of a ftard like you said, I won’t be doing this again, unless I’m alone. Thanks for posting in a more calm manner.

To the other poster below and about the whole gang rape deal, you guys watch too much movies seriously. Or maybe you just live in more harsh countries than I do. That’s about as realistic as saying “you could of beaten the three of them to death and then raped them in their assholes”. I think there’s a huge step between a little highway confrontation and a murder+rape.

But I see where you guys are going. Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Has anyone considered the situation where she gets beaten up and he gets raped?

Show a bit of liberalism

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You have to carry a firearm anymore. Violence is accelerating daily. Having a small handgun in your possession, being licensed and trained how to use it, is one of the very best investments you will ever make.

Agreed. With emphasis on being licensed and trained how to use it.

I generally agree with this sentiment. I carry even when going up the street to grab a burrito.

But to all the guys that think he was justified in stopping, getting out and delivering a beating, if the OP was carrying, would he have been justified in just rolling down the window and capping the guy?

[/quote]

No he would not have been. If both are travelling in vehicles and they are not in some sort of demolition derby he has the option of leaving or remaining in vehicle.

Same thing if they both pulled over and the OP uses his weapon. He had the opportunity to avoid or stay in car and if he choses to confront and is assaulted he could be percieved as the aggressor and be convicted.

Use of lethal force requires a much higher threshold of action and justification. It is always the last or only option.

I wonder what those guys are being told right now…

He could have had a chainsaw! He could have raped you guys! He might be an addled sex-fiend escaped from the circus! His girlfriend could have shot you!

[quote]

  1. You either attempted to retreat or could show retreat was impossible – on this point alone, they could charge you with assault

  2. The threat must be immediate. No it wasn’t, until you pulled over.

  3. The threat must not be avoidable by any other condition. (So in a robbery if the baddie says “give me your money” and you trash him, you are the aggressor.)

  4. The reasonable person standard must apply, i.e., any other person in your situation would have felt threatened. Again, it would be easy for a prosecuting attorney to argue that while their client might have nearly hit you with their car, you were, in fact not in danger. Flipping them off might then be taken as incitement.

– jj[/quote]

God fucking damn it some of this fucked up bullshit needs to be changed.

If i’m getting robbed. Fuck the robber i will shoot him in the face even if he has only a knife. I come first, it’s about MY survival and wellbeing and NOT about the aggressor. Fuck the aggressor, even if he’s just being stuid and making a mistake it’s HIS GODDAMN MISTAKE. People give way too much sympathy to aggressors. You FIGHT crime, don’t just bow under it and let paperwork handle it.

Even if i sound like a violent person from that. I have only once been in a fight in my whole life. I’ve always managed to talk my way out of it or de-escalate it. Except for that one time and it wasn’t pretty. When i’m forced to fight i will fight like an animal.

[quote]Silverkin wrote:

  1. You either attempted to retreat or could show retreat was impossible – on this point alone, they could charge you with assault

  2. The threat must be immediate. No it wasn’t, until you pulled over.

  3. The threat must not be avoidable by any other condition. (So in a robbery if the baddie says “give me your money” and you trash him, you are the aggressor.)

  4. The reasonable person standard must apply, i.e., any other person in your situation would have felt threatened. Again, it would be easy for a prosecuting attorney to argue that while their client might have nearly hit you with their car, you were, in fact not in danger. Flipping them off might then be taken as incitement.

– jj

God fucking damn it some of this fucked up bullshit needs to be changed.

If i’m getting robbed. Fuck the robber i will shoot him in the face even if he has only a knife. I come first, it’s about MY survival and wellbeing and NOT about the aggressor. Fuck the aggressor, even if he’s just being stuid and making a mistake it’s HIS GODDAMN MISTAKE. People give way too much sympathy to aggressors. You FIGHT crime, don’t just bow under it and let paperwork handle it.

Even if i sound like a violent person from that. I have only once been in a fight in my whole life. I’ve always managed to talk my way out of it or de-escalate it. Except for that one time and it wasn’t pretty. When i’m forced to fight i will fight like an animal.[/quote]

Yeah well without beeing so reckless, I kind of share your point of view. I knew that by accepting to pull off I was taking the risk that it would likely escalate into a fight, but I wanted to at least try talking it out. When I got off the car I was hoping that we could just set it straight and go on. I’m 100% sure it would have been the case if he had been alone. But he felt secure with his buddies and decided to attack me without saying anything. At that point I couldn’t really turn back and say “ok whatever, bye”.

And tom63, I don’t know about your kids but what MY dad taught me was to face my problems head on with common sense, not to avoid them.

[quote]Kataklysm wrote:
jj-dude wrote:
Dude…

I’ve taught MA for 25 years and self-defense too. Sorry pal, but NONE of this counts as self defense.

I never really had to resort to violence in my life.

Read that sentence. Sometimes violence is the best strategy (e.g., he is pounding on your face). Driving down the street in a machine that has more horses under the hood than Genghis Khan does not count.

He proceeded to drive his car next to mine and the two guys in the front started yelling hysterically and gesturing at me. I gave him the finger,

so (toes carpet), this counts as a de-escalation technique in your book?

thought it was all over and focused back on the road. But that crazy fucker didn’t have enough. He suddently steered right, straight onto my car. Not only did I have to brake to avoid getting smashed, but I almost went offroads.

So far, he is a fucktard and you pissed him off. Good move.

my girlfriend yelled to me to just keep going and ignore them but at that point I was just reckless and I pulled off.

Surprise bitch, there’s 3 guys in the truck. Now I’m a 5’9, 180 pounds teen.

She’s a keeper and has more sense than you do. Listen to her next time, ok?

Let me serve this up straight. You have no “right” to self-defense. No one does, and anyone – I don’t care how long they’ve trained – should be telling you any different. Legally, self-defense is a PETITION FOR EXEMPTION for prosecution.

It must be affirmative (so you have to confess to doing it before you can invoke it). Then for your petition to be accepted, you must show

  1. You either attempted to retreat or could show retreat was impossible – on this point alone, they could charge you with assault

  2. The threat must be immediate. No it wasn’t, until you pulled over.

  3. The threat must not be avoidable by any other condition. (So in a robbery if the baddie says “give me your money” and you trash him, you are the aggressor.)

  4. The reasonable person standard must apply, i.e., any other person in your situation would have felt threatened. Again, it would be easy for a prosecuting attorney to argue that while their client might have nearly hit you with their car, you were, in fact not in danger. Flipping them off might then be taken as incitement.

Finally, fight != self-defense. A fight is consensual combat or a duel, which is what you all did. A self-defense situation is where one party obviously refuses to engage and the other attacks.

OK, now, for a bunch of crap from me. Your training nearly got you killed, since it seems that your instructor has not bothered to tell you what self-defense is – and there is a very exacting legal standard to invoke it.

You are on the ground with TWO guys freely moving around you? Your tactical advice suxx. What saved you was the fact, as I indicated before, that they are as big of ftards as you are.

Dude, what would you have done if you lost? You had a girlfriend there, right? That means you should have been playing bodyguard, not trying to see whose dick is bigger. Think about it. Losing might mean you wake up in the hospital being a quadriplegic, she’s been raped multiple times and then beaten to death. Real smooth there junior…

– jj

Sorry but who the fuck are you man? Do I give a damn about how long you’ve been teaching MA? What does that have to do with anything? Calling me names and calling me a kid, you’re the one giving me shit for no reason and beeing unrespectful. I never even spoke to you. Straighten up.

No wonder you need to carry a gun with such a cocky attitude. Calling me a fucktard on a forum where I was merely asking for opinions and seeking a mature discussion about a serious issue, real smooth there master Yoda.

Whatever with all your legal stuff, the way I see it, I was assaulted and threatened and I defended myself. I’m a kid, I fucked up, so do you on a daily basis. If you don’t have anything constructive to say I don’t need your lecture.

[/quote]

You fucked up big time and now you are blasting people for calling you out on it?

A good saying i read somewhere that i try to apply in real life:

“You are only as strong as that which makes you angry”

[quote]5.0 wrote:
Jetric9 wrote:
There is also this funny video of a hillbilly dad and son chasing a BMW and then the guy in the BMW pulls over, takes out a gun, takes the keys from the truck that is chasing him and makes them walk all the way back. I’ll see if I can find it…

That was an awesome vid. Funny turn of events, there.[/quote]

found it. Rednecks get their just desserts in BMW chase! - YouTube

I thought the hillbillies were looking for a gun, I would laugh balls if it was fake, but would be even greater if it was real.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

You fucked up big time and now you are blasting people for calling you out on it?[/quote]

Not exactly, did you even read the posts man? Lol. I fucked up, admitted I did, deserved to be called out on it but there’s no reason to start calling people fucktards.
I don’t mind anybody saying I was wrong man, jj just went too far with his post and I simply called him out on it. It’s all good.

[quote]God fucking damn it some of this fucked up bullshit needs to be changed.

If i’m getting robbed. Fuck the robber i will shoot him in the face even if he has only a knife. I come first, it’s about MY survival and wellbeing and NOT about the aggressor. Fuck the aggressor, even if he’s just being stuid and making a mistake it’s HIS GODDAMN MISTAKE. People give way too much sympathy to aggressors. You FIGHT crime, don’t just bow under it and let paperwork handle it.

Even if i sound like a violent person from that. I have only once been in a fight in my whole life. I’ve always managed to talk my way out of it or de-escalate it. Except for that one time and it wasn’t pretty. When i’m forced to fight i will fight like an animal.[/quote]

You’re awesome.

You did the right thing.

I love the posts that go like this…

Self defense is… SELF DEFENSE. You aggravated a situation where you could have avoided conflict. You could have been raped, killed, hung, drawn and quartered.

Never ever fight in a situation where you don’t have to. You never know who you’re fighting. If someone has a weapon, and you don’t… you sir, are fucked.

That’s why I always keep my trusty Kubotan/Magnum .44/Hunting rifle/Cuban militia on hand at all times.

Even in the office.

[quote]duffyj2 wrote:

That’s why I always keep my trusty Kubotan/Magnum .44/Hunting rifle/Cuban militia on hand at all times.

Even in the office.[/quote]

where do you work that they let you bring in a hunting rifle? haha

America.

  1. you did put your girlfriend in serious danger because you know she wasn’t going to leave you behind if the 3 dudes were going to kick the shit out of you

  2. you should’ve taken your baseball bat with you, by getting out of the car you were inciting a fight

  3. teach your girlfriend to sneak up behind the guy and kick him in the balls, that’s what I’ve done

  4. you are a fucktard

  5. your muay thai classes have taught you nothing if you had the guy down and went for a mount with 2 other people around, one kick and it’s lights out, even in that dominant position, get up and back up, ready to fight the other two…or go get your bat

  6. you all should be arrested

[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
where do you work that they let you bring in a hunting rifle? haha

America.[/quote]

I live in america as well. Nowhere around here would allow you to bring a gun into work, except maybe the hunting stores.

Then again, i live in Illinois, which has strict gun laws. You can’t even get a CCW permit here unless you’re police, a mayor, or an alderman. .

[quote]mmllcc wrote:
Not a smart move…but that doesn’t make it a wrong move. I think you did the manly thing. You could have been killed yes - but I bet the prick won’t be barreling down the road again.

You did two things wrong - had a girlfriend that stopped a fight (she should keep her ass away and out of the picture - and afterward you should’ve told her to stay out of such business unless she is going to help) and “freezing” instead of beating his head to a pulp.[/quote]

This is the stupidest fucking reply I’ve ever read.

The “manly” thing? The motherfucker committed aggravated assault, could’ve got his girlfriend killed or raped, could’ve been stabbed or stomped… but that’s the “manly” thing? You are one stupid motherfucker. Keep your mouth shut, it’s shit like this that gets people killed.

To the OP- you’re a fucking moron. You are lucky you’re alive, because if you had one of my buddies on the ground when there was three of us around, we’d have stomped your teeth down to your ass.

Stupid. You never pull off the road. That was not self defense, that was aggravated assault and, depending if you stomped him, attempted murder.

I can’t even describe how unbelievably lucky you are. The motherfuckers shoulda killed you for that shit.

Alright, he has his answer. OC is not a moron, and knows he screwed up. No need to remind him that he screwed up, that is childish.

There were no witnesses to either side of the story besides those involved. A jury would almost definitely side with the “I thought my girl was in danger” defense, rather than the 3 probably drunk dudes who almost killed an 18 year old kid and his girl by running them off the road giving the “he flipped me off” defense.

They didn’t kill him, he knows he screwed up and his girl is never going to let him forget it, and he has learned his lesson.

Discussion over.