Seeking Girlfriend Advice

Off Topic
141

I admit, my phrasing choice was intentionally on the inflammatory side, taking the concepts to the extreme.

“Guiding” and “leading” is a far better way to put it. As is setting your own boundaries, and communicating clearly about what you will and won’t tolerate.

There’s a spectrum between…

“What do you want to do? (I’m afraid to make a decision)” → “I was thinking of doing [thing], sound good? (Making a decision, but involving her)” → “We’re going to do [thing], whether you like it or not (commanding/ordering/expecting obedience)”.

I’m not sure those were the best examples. “We’re going to do [thing]” works, as long as it’s not “whether you like to or not”.

The approach I really meant [despite my word choice] was the guy makes a decision and sets a direction, but is still adaptive to her response, within his own boundaries.

142

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner

Thats a great movie.

Its about a black man, played by Sidney Potier, who wishes to marry the daughter of a white couple, which has to confront a lot of the things they profess to believe in.

The parents are played by Stacy and Hepburn.

Thats a first class movie right there, no time wasted watching it.

[/quote]

Yep.[/quote]
Stahp.

143

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner

Thats a great movie.

Its about a black man, played by Sidney Potier, who wishes to marry the daughter of a white couple, which has to confront a lot of the things they profess to believe in.

The parents are played by Stacy and Hepburn.

Thats a first class movie right there, no time wasted watching it.

[/quote]

Yep.[/quote]

Yep.

144

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I was in an unhealthy relationship.
I was a “fixer”
Always went way out of my way to help her, make her happy, whatever.
People around me could see that the relationship wasnt healthy but I was that guy.
“You guys don’t understand. Things are great 99% of the time! I love her!”
Did everything for this girl.
She ended up cheating on me after being really serious for 2+ years and we were talking marriage.

You just don’t see it when you’re in it.
I know this will fall on deaf ears because your situation is different but I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I’ve seen it happen to good friends of mine.[/quote]

If you were in that relationship again, how would you handle things differently?

It sounds like the unhealthy part of that relationship was because of your behavior. I’m assuming you’ve changed your approach since then (I’d hope.)

How would that relationship have turned out, had you not been such a pushover back then?

And/or at what point would you have pulled the plug?[/quote]
LOL
Weak trolling attempt is weak[/quote]

Well… it wasn’t a trolling attempt at all, so of course that would make it look like a weak trolling attempt.

I’m actually curious. How much of it do you think was due to your attitude/approach back then? And at what point would you have walked away?[/quote]
LOL
Knowing what I know now I would have walked away a couple months into the relationship.
None of it was due to my attitude.
She had issues.
I wasnt going to be able to fix her issues (which I wasn’t even trying to do) I just didn’t know it.

Like I said, you’re blinded because its you that is in the relationship.
This isn’t going to be a “happily ever after” ending for you guys.
You’ll just have to learn the hard way.
You have had 15+ people tell you this.
You have had several people tell you they were in the same situation and it doesn’t go well.
You just don’t want to hear it.
You’re different.
Your situation is different.
You’re a special snowflake.[/quote]

145

You need to read The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida, fucking STAT.

But here’s the catch: that book will make it easy for you to justify that sort of behavior. I don’t think you should. But anyway, it offers TONS of advice on how to act in certain situations with women (like this, she’s going nuts because YOU’RE not fulfilling your ‘manly duties’, so to speak, so she goes nuts and that’s her way of calling you out on it.

You know how you said at the beginning of the relationship, it was filled with tons of drama? It was around the same time you were bending over backwards and being a pussy for her. She knew you were being a pussy, so she created all that drama as her way of saying “man the fuck up.” You said there’s much less drama now that you’ve stopped bending over backwards for her? This is why.

See how her behavior is dependent on yours?

You need more self awareness - start paying attention to YOUR life (productivity, financial security, sexual performance, etc…) ESPECIALLY in the time leading up to her crazy spells. Her crazy spells are her way of communicating to you that you’re fucking up in an aspect of your life.

Definitely read that book. It’s written in little couple-pages-long segments so it’s easy as fuck to get through. I’m only halfway through and it’s filled with gold, though.

All that said, though, I still think she’s got issues that you cannot help her with, and until she realizes she needs help, you’re gonna have to put up with her bat shit spells.

How’s the sex? Probably phenomenal, huh?

146

Didn’t want to bump this thread; kind of hoping it’ll die off.

But thanks for the comment. I basically agree with what you’ve said.

I’ll take a look at the book.

147

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I did. And it actually comes down to her saying, effectively, “I need you to tell me what to do”… “You should be the one telling me to get off the phone”. Which echoes a lot of what has been said around here; that women need to be given boundaries and need to be commanded – at least to some degree. Intellectually I don’t really buy it, even though experience has shown otherwise. [/quote]

Women need to be given boundaries and need to be commanded? [/quote]

I honestly thought that your avi was some movie star.

You are very attractive. And a therapist, to boot! :-)[/quote]

Thank you for the compliment. Decided to take it down for now…

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I did. And it actually comes down to her saying, effectively, “I need you to tell me what to do”… “You should be the one telling me to get off the phone”. Which echoes a lot of what has been said around here; that women need to be given boundaries and need to be commanded – at least to some degree. Intellectually I don’t really buy it, even though experience has shown otherwise. [/quote]

Women need to be given boundaries and need to be commanded? [/quote]

I made a post that could be interpreted this way. Let me clarify.

A man needs to give a woman his boundaries not tell her what her’s are. For instance when I met my wife I explained to her I had lots of girlfriends including an ex-girlfriend and that wasn’t going to change and I wouldn’t put up with any jealousy. I also explained to her I like to look at women. I told her I wouldn’t do it in an obvious or disrespectful way but there could be times she would catch me and it couldn’t be an issue.

These are things that are issues for some couples. I let her know up front they couldn’t be issues for us and now over twenty years later they never have been.

If I was in LoRez’s place I wouldn’t put up with the needy shit. I would say to her “Look, I love you and I’m here for you. I’ve done all these things that prove I love you and care for you. You need to except it and stop making it an issue because it’s not an issue. I will be here for you anytime you need me because you had a tough day or need support but I’m not going to defend my love for you. If I have to do that I will have to move on. No discussion and no 2nd chances.”[/quote]

I think clarifying boundaries and discussing expectations within a relationship is very different than being commanding/controlling within one. Your wife had a choice in the matter, she could accept the fact that you have female friends and covertly check out other women or not accept those facts and end the relationship. At least you were able to have an honest conversation early on about these things.

LoRez, any progress?

148

Sorry, didn’t read the comment about you wanting the thread to die. I’ll be quiet now. I promise! :slight_smile:

149

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
LoRez, any progress?
[/quote]

Thanks for asking.

Everything seems to be good. No complaints from her, no more revisiting the “if you cared for me then you would…” train of thought, none of that.

I showed a bit more interest in how well her studying is going, and offered a bit more encouragement. Both of which I’d been doing, I just bumped it up a notch. Now things are fine.

One night she set a timer for the conversation, but we still talked for awhile after the timer. Seems the “we’re talking on the phone too long” was really just a red herring of sorts.

I guess we also did a bit of exploring what things will be like once she takes her boards. It will be the first time she is truly finished with all formal education. I think there’s some anxiety about the uncertainty of living in a world where the only structure in your life is of your own choosing.

But with respect to that particular incident, it seems to now be a non-issue.

My other concern, and the real reason I started the thread, is her belief system and approach during these occasional blowups of hers. Specifically the externalization of blame, and especially the active and aggressive denial that anyone cares for her.

It’s these recurring themes that concern me, since they seem symptomatic of something more severe.

Other than getting her in front of a professional, and one who’s able to actually see through her shell, there doesn’t seem to be much else I can do at this point. I guess there’s also the couples counseling route, where I’d intentionally provoke something so they could see her attitude and responses, but that has a pretty high risk of backfiring.

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
Sorry, didn’t read the comment about you wanting the thread to die. I’ll be quiet now. I promise! :slight_smile: [/quote]

No worries, and no need to keep quiet if you don’t want.

I just got tired of the themes in several of the responses. Hearing “you’re doing it wrong” over and over just gets old.

On another level, I’m a little surprised at the “you should just give up” undercurrent. It’s interesting how that’s become an appropriate response when it comes to relationships. Imagine if “you should quit” was the standard line for any work-related advice, with the occasional “there’s several other million jobs out there” to back it up.

150

It’s not giving up. It’s optimizing.

151

I think that this is the same girl you posted about a while back.

Which is why I would say to let it go man…

Sure, you can make something work man, but ultimately, a woman that does not inspire you to be the best you can be is not THE ONE.

If there is such a thing.

152

[quote]orion wrote:
I think that this is the same girl you posted about a while back.

Which is why I would say to let it go man…

Sure, you can make something work man, but ultimately, a woman that does not inspire you to be the best you can be is not THE ONE.

If there is such a thing. [/quote]

I don’t always agree with your cynical mutterings…but this rings true.

153

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
It’s not giving up. It’s optimizing.[/quote]

Mind elaborating?

Quantifying this a bit, currently, for every 90-120 good days, there’s 1 bad day. Provided that bad day is handled well, it’s then followed by another 90-120 good days.

Once upon a time, it was 15-30 good days before there was a series of bad days. Things have improved significantly from then.

With someone new, the bad days might be even fewer, or at least, less “bad” (although, 1-3 bad days every 30 days seems pretty standard). Based on my current set of preferences, it would be unlikely to find someone where the “good” days are as a good as my current “good” days.

Granted, if I were surrounded by well educated, well traveled, intelligent nymphomaniac supermodels willing to do whatever I asked, it would probably be a different story.

154

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

Granted, if I were surrounded by well educated, well traveled, intelligent nymphomaniac supermodels willing to do whatever I asked, it would probably be a different story.[/quote]

<-------everything but the supermodel here.

155

[quote]orion wrote:
I think that this is the same girl you posted about a while back.

Which is why I would say to let it go man…[/quote]

The one with the whole phobia of physical contact? This is a totally different girl – this is the one I’ve been seeing for most of the last 5 years. The other was just an interim for a few months.

156

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I think that this is the same girl you posted about a while back.

Which is why I would say to let it go man…[/quote]

The one with the whole phobia of physical contact? This is a totally different girl – this is the one I’ve been seeing for most of the last 5 years. The other was just an interim for a few months.[/quote]

na, is this the girl where you had plans how your meeting was supposed to go and then you threw it all out of the window?

157

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I think that this is the same girl you posted about a while back.

Which is why I would say to let it go man…[/quote]

The one with the whole phobia of physical contact? This is a totally different girl – this is the one I’ve been seeing for most of the last 5 years. The other was just an interim for a few months.[/quote]

na, is this the girl where you had plans how your meeting was supposed to go and then you threw it all out of the window?[/quote]

Nope. I remember that story, but that wasn’t me.

158

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I think that this is the same girl you posted about a while back.

Which is why I would say to let it go man…[/quote]

The one with the whole phobia of physical contact? This is a totally different girl – this is the one I’ve been seeing for most of the last 5 years. The other was just an interim for a few months.[/quote]

na, is this the girl where you had plans how your meeting was supposed to go and then you threw it all out of the window?[/quote]

Nope. I remember that story, but that wasn’t me.[/quote]

Well, forget that then.

159

You are lying anyway, 1 bad day out of 90-120?

If she only had 10% bad day ratio she is a total keeper…

160

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
It’s not giving up. It’s optimizing.[/quote]

Mind elaborating?

Quantifying this a bit, currently, for every 90-120 good days, there’s 1 bad day. Provided that bad day is handled well, it’s then followed by another 90-120 good days.

Once upon a time, it was 15-30 good days before there was a series of bad days. Things have improved significantly from then.

With someone new, the bad days might be even fewer, or at least, less “bad” (although, 1-3 bad days every 30 days seems pretty standard). Based on my current set of preferences, it would be unlikely to find someone where the “good” days are as a good as my current “good” days.

Granted, if I were surrounded by well educated, well traveled, intelligent nymphomaniac supermodels willing to do whatever I asked, it would probably be a different story.[/quote]
It’s all relative.

The magnitude of those numbers suggest a duality to your posts. I think the responses were engineered with respect to the content moreso than the frequency as it is implied that the frequency was higher.

My post was made to address your sentiment that others’ posts carried a “give up” undertone, which may be partially true but isn’t the overall message. I’m speaking more along the lines of optimization of one’s self, not a relationship.