Seeking Girlfriend Advice

Off Topic
161

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
My post was made to address your sentiment that others’ posts carried a “give up” undertone, which may be partially true but isn’t the overall message. I’m speaking more along the lines of optimization of one’s self, not a relationship.[/quote]

I was pretty sure that’s what you meant.

I’m more productive when I’m not with anyone at all. I read more, learn more, create more, etc. However, it turns out that I’m not particularly satisfied by it.

On the other hand, I seem to be a lot happier when I’m with her, despite the fact that it has cut into my ability to, well, accomplish things. For that matter, it’s cut into my motivation to accomplish things; my goals are a lot more mundane, things like making sure we have a good time together every evening. Keeping her smiling, laughing, etc.

I [potentially] add much more value to society when I’m not with anyone… but I’m a lot happier and more satisfied when I’m with her. And it’s a sustainable happiness; some people are very interesting in the beginning but get stale quickly, and she’s not like that.

That’s not to say there isn’t a voice in my head that says “think of all the stuff you could have accomplished if you didn’t spend so much time with her”.

But this is just a snapshot. Until I figure out what I want to do next, being with her is pretty good for me, even if I’m not perfectly content.

It will be better when we’re back to living in the same place though. Not liking this long-distance thing much.

162

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
My post was made to address your sentiment that others’ posts carried a “give up” undertone, which may be partially true but isn’t the overall message. I’m speaking more along the lines of optimization of one’s self, not a relationship.[/quote]

I was pretty sure that’s what you meant.

I’m more productive when I’m not with anyone at all. I read more, learn more, create more, etc. However, it turns out that I’m not particularly satisfied by it.

On the other hand, I seem to be a lot happier when I’m with her, despite the fact that it has cut into my ability to, well, accomplish things. For that matter, it’s cut into my motivation to accomplish things; my goals are a lot more mundane, things like making sure we have a good time together every evening. Keeping her smiling, laughing, etc.

I [potentially] add much more value to society when I’m not with anyone… but I’m a lot happier and more satisfied when I’m with her. And it’s a sustainable happiness; some people are very interesting in the beginning but get stale quickly, and she’s not like that.

That’s not to say there isn’t a voice in my head that says “think of all the stuff you could have accomplished if you didn’t spend so much time with her”.

But this is just a snapshot. Until I figure out what I want to do next, being with her is pretty good for me, even if I’m not perfectly content.

It will be better when we’re back to living in the same place though. Not liking this long-distance thing much.[/quote]
I really get what you’re saying, man. I’m dealing with something myself currently. Just trying to look at it objectively.

163

[quote]theBeth wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Granted, if I were surrounded by well educated, well traveled, intelligent nymphomaniac supermodels willing to do whatever I asked, it would probably be a different story.[/quote]

<-------everything but the supermodel here.[/quote]

:slight_smile:

164

[quote]theBeth wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

Granted, if I were surrounded by well educated, well traveled, intelligent nymphomaniac supermodels willing to do whatever I asked, it would probably be a different story.[/quote]
[/quote]

<-------everything but the supermodel here.[/quote]

This is why we all love you Beth, but stop teasing us!

165

[quote]LoRez wrote:
On another level, I’m a little surprised at the “you should just give up” undercurrent. It’s interesting how that’s become an appropriate response when it comes to relationships.[/quote]
Dude you gotta expect that from every TNation relationship thread lol. The answer is always “RUN!”

166

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
On another level, I’m a little surprised at the “you should just give up” undercurrent. It’s interesting how that’s become an appropriate response when it comes to relationships.[/quote]
Dude you gotta expect that from every TNation relationship thread lol. The answer is always “RUN!”[/quote]

Lol, yeah, I know.

167

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
On another level, I’m a little surprised at the “you should just MOVE ON” undercurrent. It’s interesting how that’s become an appropriate response when it comes to relationships.[/quote]
Dude you gotta expect that from every TNation relationship thread lol. The answer is always “NEXT!”[/quote]

FIXED

FOR FAIR REPRESENTATION

168

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
On another level, I’m a little surprised at the “you should just MOVE ON” undercurrent. It’s interesting how that’s become an appropriate response when it comes to relationships.[/quote]
Dude you gotta expect that from every TNation relationship thread lol. The answer is always “NEXT!”[/quote]

FIXED

FOR FAIR REPRESENTATION[/quote]

And, sure, you can say that about a job too.

But my point is that by doing so, you’re basically stating that you’ve chosen not to try and change the situation any more than you already have. Both people in a relationship influence it.

Some relationships will never ever ever get you what you want; others will, but it won’t just be handed to you. You have to do some work.

It’s the same way with your job or career. Some people give all their power to their boss to influence their daily life; others have learned that they can actually influence things, even in their most bottom roles. One role is passive, one role is active.

Most of my past relationships will never get to where I want them, no matter how much work I put in. That’s why they’re in the past.

This one – 90-99% of the time – is where I want it to be. It’s just those last few percent I’m working on.

There’s no need to cut my losses at this point.

169

[quote]LoRez wrote:
This one – 90-99% of the time – is where I want it to be. It’s just those last few percent I’m working on.

There’s no need to cut my losses at this point.[/quote]
To be fair, you should’ve included this in the OP. Omitting this detail colored your situation to be considerably worse. I think the majority of the posters in this thread interpreted the situation effectively with the posits given at the time. Now you know lol.

171

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
LoRez, any progress?
[/quote]

Thanks for asking.

Everything seems to be good. No complaints from her, no more revisiting the “if you cared for me then you would…” train of thought, none of that.

I showed a bit more interest in how well her studying is going, and offered a bit more encouragement. Both of which I’d been doing, I just bumped it up a notch. Now things are fine.

One night she set a timer for the conversation, but we still talked for awhile after the timer. Seems the “we’re talking on the phone too long” was really just a red herring of sorts.

I guess we also did a bit of exploring what things will be like once she takes her boards. It will be the first time she is truly finished with all formal education. I think there’s some anxiety about the uncertainty of living in a world where the only structure in your life is of your own choosing.

But with respect to that particular incident, it seems to now be a non-issue.

My other concern, and the real reason I started the thread, is her belief system and approach during these occasional blowups of hers. Specifically the externalization of blame, and especially the active and aggressive denial that anyone cares for her.

It’s these recurring themes that concern me, since they seem symptomatic of something more severe.

Other than getting her in front of a professional, and one who’s able to actually see through her shell, there doesn’t seem to be much else I can do at this point. I guess there’s also the couples counseling route, where I’d intentionally provoke something so they could see her attitude and responses, but that has a pretty high risk of backfiring.

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
Sorry, didn’t read the comment about you wanting the thread to die. I’ll be quiet now. I promise! :slight_smile: [/quote]

No worries, and no need to keep quiet if you don’t want.

I just got tired of the themes in several of the responses. Hearing “you’re doing it wrong” over and over just gets old.

On another level, I’m a little surprised at the “you should just give up” undercurrent. It’s interesting how that’s become an appropriate response when it comes to relationships. Imagine if “you should quit” was the standard line for any work-related advice, with the occasional “there’s several other million jobs out there” to back it up.[/quote]

“For every 90-120 good days, there’s 1 bad day”. That sounds pretty amazing to me!!! It sounded like the situation was more chronic from your earlier post.

No matter who you are with, you are going to face challenges. It’s nice that you are making an effort to “bump it up a notch” as you put it. Hopefully, she will take notice and appreciate it.

Regarding the whole externalization of blame and insisting that nobody cares for her… Well, I think most people have a natural tendency to externalize blame rather than owning it! The part about her vehemently stating that nobody cares for her could indicate that she is struggling with something within herself, that is entirely separate from the relationship.

172

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Quantifying this a bit, currently, for every 90-120 good days, there’s 1 bad day. Provided that bad day is handled well, it’s then followed by another 90-120 good days.

Once upon a time, it was 15-30 good days before there was a series of bad days. Things have improved significantly from then.

With someone new, the bad days might be even fewer, or at least, less “bad” (although, 1-3 bad days every 30 days seems pretty standard). Based on my current set of preferences, it would be unlikely to find someone where the “good” days are as a good as my current “good” days.

Granted, if I were surrounded by well educated, well traveled, intelligent nymphomaniac supermodels willing to do whatever I asked, it would probably be a different story.[/quote]

[quote]LoRez wrote:
For that matter, it’s cut into my motivation to accomplish things; my goals are a lot more mundane, things like making sure we have a good time together every evening. Keeping her smiling, laughing, etc. [/quote]

Seligman and Maier split a starting group of dogs up into 3 separate groups. All three groups were placed into harnesses that they couldn’t escape from. The dogs in Group 1 were simply kept in the harness for a period of time and then let loose. The dogs in Group 2 were shocked, a process which could be stopped by depressing a lever. The dogs in Group 3 were also shocked, but their lever didn’t stop the shocks. The Group 3 dogs learned that the shocks started and stopped at random, and that they were powerless to stop them.

For the second part of the experiment the dogs from all 3 groups were put into a box to receive electric shocks. This time there was no harness and the dogs could easily escape the shocks by jumping over a small partition. The dogs in Group 1 and Group 2 immediately jumped over the partition to escape the shocks, but the vast majority of dogs in Group 3 simply lay down and whined as they were shocked over and over. The Group 3 dogs had learned they were powerless to change their circumstances, and this “learned helplessness” stopped them from trying to escape the shocks.

174

[quote]Chushin wrote:

I remember that study from my undergrad days!

BTW, Seligman also wrote a book called, “Learned Optimism.”[/quote]

I’ll check that book out and add it to my reading list.

Another link relevant to this thread (and to living with people with BPD in general): Reinforcement Theory - examples, school, type, Reinforcement, punishment, and extinction

Pay attention to intermittent variable rewards (aka variable interval reinforcment), especially.

175

Let’s say that’s what’s going on here. Not saying it is, but if it were, I’m not sure I’d be capable of knowing.

How do you “reverse” learned helplessness?

176

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Let’s say that’s what’s going on here. Not saying it is, but if it were, I’m not sure I’d be capable of knowing.

How do you “reverse” learned helplessness?[/quote]

Alot of cognitive therapy.

177

[quote]theBeth wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Let’s say that’s what’s going on here. Not saying it is, but if it were, I’m not sure I’d be capable of knowing.

How do you “reverse” learned helplessness?[/quote]

Alot of cognitive therapy.[/quote]

To identify the areas where you have that problem.

Then you go out and collect positive reference experiences.

Force your brain to see that it is not so.

That might hurt a bit.

178

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]theBeth wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Let’s say that’s what’s going on here. Not saying it is, but if it were, I’m not sure I’d be capable of knowing.

How do you “reverse” learned helplessness?[/quote]

Alot of cognitive therapy.[/quote]

To identify the areas where you have that problem.

Then you go out and collect positive reference experiences.

Force your brain to see that it is not so.

That might hurt a bit. [/quote]
I think any advice that I could give wouldn’t be applicable unless the person was incredibly similar to me in profile.

179

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]theBeth wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Let’s say that’s what’s going on here. Not saying it is, but if it were, I’m not sure I’d be capable of knowing.

How do you “reverse” learned helplessness?[/quote]

Alot of cognitive therapy.[/quote]

To identify the areas where you have that problem.

Then you go out and collect positive reference experiences.

Force your brain to see that it is not so.

That might hurt a bit. [/quote]
I think any advice that I could give wouldn’t be applicable unless the person was incredibly similar to me in profile.[/quote]

Yeah well, our brains all pretty much all work the same way.

180

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]theBeth wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Let’s say that’s what’s going on here. Not saying it is, but if it were, I’m not sure I’d be capable of knowing.

How do you “reverse” learned helplessness?[/quote]

Alot of cognitive therapy.[/quote]

To identify the areas where you have that problem.

Then you go out and collect positive reference experiences.

Force your brain to see that it is not so.

That might hurt a bit. [/quote]
I think any advice that I could give wouldn’t be applicable unless the person was incredibly similar to me in profile.[/quote]

Yeah well, our brains all pretty much all work the same way.

[/quote]
The circuitry is irrelevant. There’s a dissonance between the hardware and the software. Without attachment, the best I can do is permutate a cloud of abstract in a realm where color and planar geometry reign supreme. We may or may not be talking about the aspect of this concept.