[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]jglickfield wrote:
So a very long story made short, it turns out that these are all signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. [/quote]
Came to write this…
[/quote]
I was about to recommend the book “Stop Walking on Eggshells” because of the way it teaches someone how to deal with other people’s emotions. My brain didn’t even connect the dots that this guy’s girlfriend might have BPD.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]jglickfield wrote:
So a very long story made short, it turns out that these are all signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. [/quote]
Came to write this…
[/quote]
Also occurred to me, but don’t think there’s enough info to make that call.[/quote]
Maybe not for a professional, but on an internet forum I’ve got all the info I need to make an irresponsible diagnosis…lol
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Seriously though, she’s a twentysomething who’s already divorced and has obvious relationship/trust/self esteem issues.
You’ve bent over backwards and she still doesn’t see it.
What do you expect to happen?
Blinded by love.[/quote]
I… expect things to continue pretty much as they are. 99% of the time everything is actually really good; 1% of the time she starts a stupid argument about something stupid.
At this point it’s not even really about what I’m getting from the relationship. I’m getting what I want. She’s just fundamentally unhappy, and I’m hoping there’s something I can do.
Also, maybe it wasn’t clear, but I did stop bending over backward for her a long long time ago. I will say that was one of the best decisions I ever made. In response, she now does the same for me. She started putting a lot more work into the relationship.[/quote]
It sounds to me like you are well on your way if you’ve stopped bending over backwards. My advice would be that every time she starts a stupid argument you call her out on it. Be brutally honest that what she is doing is absolutely ridiculous. If what you’re saying is accurate, she’s being unreasonable. If you take it and act like it’s acceptable then it’ll continue and she’ll start to think it’s okay. That will just perpetuate the problems that she’s having.
This will probably escalate into a confrontation and there’s no way for me to predict how it will go. The important thing is to stay calm and try to be fair and reasonable. Maybe you’ll get the opportunity to ask her straight up why she’s acting this way. She probably doesn’t know, but if you catch the right situation you could make her think.
On the other hand, she may start blaming you. If she starts doing that the important thing is to demand that she make specific complaints. At a minimum, she has to make specific requests as to what she would like you to change.
Obviously there is no way to tell where that leads. As long as you’re calm and reasonable, it will work. Maybe it pushes her to take responsibility for her own happiness or at least ask for what she wants from you. Maybe it leads to her completely failing to coherently express her needs or be rational. In that case I would lean towards ending the relationship.
Maybe the first time it happens it doesn’t do anything in particular, but if you continue to do it every time she starts a stupid argument it has to go somewhere. Maybe it leads to her realizing she’s not happy with you and her ending the relationship. It’s important that you don’t approach this with a state of fearing to offend her. Be fair and listen to what she says, but if she starts launching garbage you call her out and require that she be fair and specific.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]outlaws wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
(I quit my job, left friends behind, moved cities, and changed significant parts of my lifestyle in order to adapt to hers.)
[/quote]
Big mistake.
I think people need to have some sort of seperateness/differences/uniqueness in a relationship.
Leaving friends, changing significant parts of your lifestyle inorder to suit some one else, you simply detach from being yourself, and not sure how’s that going to work in the long run. [/quote]
Unlike you, I am absolutely convinced that this wont work in the lon run.
[/quote]
It doesn’t work in the long run. It worked for… about a year.
And yes, you do detatch from being yourself, trying to be someone else, and it leaves you unhappy.
Now, moving cities and leaving friends behind (I still keep in touch with a few), isn’t so bad. She did her residency here, so I moved here.
The problem was all the other changes I made that were based on her “needs”. And most of those were a mistake, although, I benefited from a few of those changes.
Eventually, after a few arguments and a breakup, I fixed all of that and got myself together again. And then we started dating again. I kept a few things in place that benefited both of us, but otherwise my tone changed completely.
[quote]philipmein wrote:
I was about to recommend the book “Stop Walking on Eggshells” because of the way it teaches someone how to deal with other people’s emotions. My brain didn’t even connect the dots that this guy’s girlfriend might have BPD.
[/quote]
I have a well-worn copy of Stop Walking on Eggshells in my bookcase. That’s $15 I really wish I would have spent about 15 years ago. Would’ve paid for itself over and over and over and over…
[quote]theBeth wrote:
Gawd this thread was hard to read. She has deep seated insecurity and low self esteem and is pushing you away in an effort to validate the feelings that she really isn’t truly loved and isn’t worth it.
If you want to save it, tell her she needs help or you’re out. Go to counseling, because at this point she isn’t going to take YOUR advice and she’s only taking the things she wants to hear from what YOU say. Then she spins it. She feels the way she feels because she wants to. Its that simple. Seriously. The power of choice makes you responsible for your own behavior, thoughts, and feelings. She’s playing the reactive victim. She loves you, probably, but needs that drama and push-pull to validate her self negativity.[/quote]
I think you’ve basically nailed it here.
We’ve been together for awhile, scattered with a few breakups. At first I took things personally, but now it’s mostly just observation. Intellectually, it’s kind of fascinating how intensely she claims she wants “stability”, I get her to describe what “stability” means to her, then I provide that to the letter… and then she finds a way to make the relationship unstable. Which, of course, if I could only provide her with some stability…
That particular pattern has been broken – she and I have both made progress – but there are still several others that are equally nonsensical. It doesn’t get to me anymore though.
The only thing I’m not convinced about is the ultimatum approach to suggesting/convincing/persuading her to get help. It’s a bit too aggressive, and will likely backfire.
But she does need help that it seems I can’t really give.
You’ve said she’s made her way through med school, internship and is now studying for her boards exam right?
Not that I’m making excuses, but she could be extremely stressed. Do her periods of acting out coincide with high stress loads like finals, practicals, other examination related stuff? There’s also the element of being the noob in an established work environment, etc.
Reason I ask is because I get crazy about interviews, reviews and tests. As hard as I try to keep a lid on things, sometimes it’s too much, and I can be really difficult to be around.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I was in an unhealthy relationship.
I was a “fixer”
Always went way out of my way to help her, make her happy, whatever.
People around me could see that the relationship wasnt healthy but I was that guy.
“You guys don’t understand. Things are great 99% of the time! I love her!”
Did everything for this girl.
She ended up cheating on me after being really serious for 2+ years and we were talking marriage.
You just don’t see it when you’re in it.
I know this will fall on deaf ears because your situation is different but I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I’ve seen it happen to good friends of mine.[/quote]
If you were in that relationship again, how would you handle things differently?
It sounds like the unhealthy part of that relationship was because of your behavior. I’m assuming you’ve changed your approach since then (I’d hope.)
How would that relationship have turned out, had you not been such a pushover back then?
And/or at what point would you have pulled the plug?[/quote]
LOL
Weak trolling attempt is weak
You should be more concerned with figuring out why you’re so intent on fixing this particular woman, and why you’re attracted to this type of woman. If you figure out the answers to those questions, then you can prevent it from happening again.
LoRez, she’s twisted in one way or another, you won’t change it, ever, and the longer you deal with it the more you’ll think it’s normal.
I’m not saying to never come in contact with her again, but my advice would be to RUN.
[quote]krillin wrote:
I was in a relationship that had a similar element to yours, did everything I could for her, yet she would sometimes say that she didn’t believe I cared about her. Came down to the fact that she didn’t reciprocate care for me in the same way and because she didn’t reciprocate, she couldn’t believe my care for her was genuine but thought there was some other reason I stayed in the relationship (like just wanting to be with someone, or I wanted to prove I could make the relationship work, or something like that).
Also similarly, it wasn’t a drag most of the time and I would have also said I was happy and content. The problem was that she wasn’t happy and the reason was because I wasn’t the person who she wanted me to be.
Just offering this in case there’s any similarity at all, and there may be since some of the negativity you listed indicates a one-sided relationship, despite what you say about how she generally feels about you, etc.[/quote]
'Sup, cue ball?
[quote]Kakarat wrote:
[quote]krillin wrote:
I was in a relationship that had a similar element to yours, did everything I could for her, yet she would sometimes say that she didn’t believe I cared about her. Came down to the fact that she didn’t reciprocate care for me in the same way and because she didn’t reciprocate, she couldn’t believe my care for her was genuine but thought there was some other reason I stayed in the relationship (like just wanting to be with someone, or I wanted to prove I could make the relationship work, or something like that).
Also similarly, it wasn’t a drag most of the time and I would have also said I was happy and content. The problem was that she wasn’t happy and the reason was because I wasn’t the person who she wanted me to be.
Just offering this in case there’s any similarity at all, and there may be since some of the negativity you listed indicates a one-sided relationship, despite what you say about how she generally feels about you, etc.[/quote]
'Sup, cue ball?[/quote]
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I was in an unhealthy relationship.
I was a “fixer”
Always went way out of my way to help her, make her happy, whatever.
People around me could see that the relationship wasnt healthy but I was that guy.
“You guys don’t understand. Things are great 99% of the time! I love her!”
Did everything for this girl.
She ended up cheating on me after being really serious for 2+ years and we were talking marriage.
You just don’t see it when you’re in it.
I know this will fall on deaf ears because your situation is different but I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I’ve seen it happen to good friends of mine.[/quote]
If you were in that relationship again, how would you handle things differently?
It sounds like the unhealthy part of that relationship was because of your behavior. I’m assuming you’ve changed your approach since then (I’d hope.)
How would that relationship have turned out, had you not been such a pushover back then?
And/or at what point would you have pulled the plug?[/quote]
LOL
Weak trolling attempt is weak[/quote]
Well… it wasn’t a trolling attempt at all, so of course that would make it look like a weak trolling attempt.
I’m actually curious. How much of it do you think was due to your attitude/approach back then? And at what point would you have walked away?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I was in an unhealthy relationship.
I was a “fixer”
Always went way out of my way to help her, make her happy, whatever.
People around me could see that the relationship wasnt healthy but I was that guy.
“You guys don’t understand. Things are great 99% of the time! I love her!”
Did everything for this girl.
She ended up cheating on me after being really serious for 2+ years and we were talking marriage.
You just don’t see it when you’re in it.
I know this will fall on deaf ears because your situation is different but I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I’ve seen it happen to good friends of mine.[/quote]
If you were in that relationship again, how would you handle things differently?
It sounds like the unhealthy part of that relationship was because of your behavior. I’m assuming you’ve changed your approach since then (I’d hope.)
How would that relationship have turned out, had you not been such a pushover back then?
And/or at what point would you have pulled the plug?[/quote]
LOL
Weak trolling attempt is weak[/quote]
Well… it wasn’t a trolling attempt at all, so of course that would make it look like a weak trolling attempt.
I’m actually curious. How much of it do you think was due to your attitude/approach back then? And at what point would you have walked away?[/quote]
LOL
Knowing what I know now I would have walked away a couple months into the relationship.
None of it was due to my attitude.
She had issues.
I wasnt going to be able to fix her issues (which I wasn’t even trying to do) I just didn’t know it.
Like I said, you’re blinded because its you that is in the relationship.
This isn’t going to be a “happily ever after” ending for you guys.
You’ll just have to learn the hard way.
You have had 15+ people tell you this.
You have had several people tell you they were in the same situation and it doesn’t go well.
You just don’t want to hear it.
You’re different.
Your situation is different.
You’re a special snowflake.
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Knowing what I know now I would have walked away a couple months into the relationship.
None of it was due to my attitude.
She had issues.
I wasnt going to be able to fix her issues (which I wasn’t even trying to do) I just didn’t know it.
Like I said, you’re blinded because its you that is in the relationship.
This isn’t going to be a “happily ever after” ending for you guys.
You’ll just have to learn the hard way.
You have had 15+ people tell you this.
You have had several people tell you they were in the same situation and it doesn’t go well.
You just don’t want to hear it.
You’re different.
Your situation is different.
You’re a special snowflake.[/quote]
You’ve earned yet another yep. Verbatim the kinds of things I was thinking.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
You’ve said she’s made her way through med school, internship and is now studying for her boards exam right?
Not that I’m making excuses, but she could be extremely stressed. Do her periods of acting out coincide with high stress loads like finals, practicals, other examination related stuff? There’s also the element of being the noob in an established work environment, etc.
Reason I ask is because I get crazy about interviews, reviews and tests. As hard as I try to keep a lid on things, sometimes it’s too much, and I can be really difficult to be around.
[/quote]
There’s some correlation, yeah. I’m not sure it’s a strong one, but I’m sure that’s a factor. Basically, since I’m her main emotional outlet, I just become the target.
It’s her worldview when that happens that concerns me. At that point in time, she genuinely believes that she’s being wronged by me, her mom, her coworkers, etc. I can understand saying a few hurtful things when you’re worked up, but that’s not really what this is. At a deep level, she actually believes it, and will intensely defend it when questioned.
I don’t know about the rest of the time.
Day to day though, it’s not like I’m spending my time with a depressed or bitter person. If that were the case, I would have been gone long ago.
But that’s still a little divergent.
Mostly, I’ve just seen how her beliefs are preventing her from being happy, and I’m looking for ways to help her see that, so that she can see it and [hopefully] choose to do something about it.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
At this point it’s not even really about what I’m getting from the relationship. I’m getting what I want. She’s just fundamentally unhappy, and I’m hoping there’s something I can do.
[/quote]
You do not want enough.
[/quote]
What more do you think I should want?
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Knowing what I know now I would have walked away a couple months into the relationship.
None of it was due to my attitude.
She had issues.
I wasnt going to be able to fix her issues (which I wasn’t even trying to do) I just didn’t know it.
Like I said, you’re blinded because its you that is in the relationship.
This isn’t going to be a “happily ever after” ending for you guys.
You’ll just have to learn the hard way.
You have had 15+ people tell you this.
You have had several people tell you they were in the same situation and it doesn’t go well.
You just don’t want to hear it.
You’re different.
Your situation is different.
You’re a special snowflake.[/quote]
You’ve earned yet another yep. Verbatim the kinds of things I was thinking.[/quote]
Thanks.
It’s a tough situation that is so much easier to recognize in others when the feelings aren’t involved.
He will have to learn it for himself.
If someone would have given me this advice back then I would have probably acted the same way he is lol
“Love” is a crazy thing man.
It makes you do weird stuff.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Just a possibility. I didn’t read everything. It’s possible that she may not love you in a way that she thinks she should and harbors guilt for said feelings or a lack of them.[/quote]
spot on.
one of my crazy ex-girlfriends used to say shit like “I know you’re too good for me” all the time. she was fucking right but she still couldn’t stop herself from acting like a total dick-face.
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I’m actually curious. How much of it do you think was due to your attitude/approach back then? And at what point would you have walked away?[/quote]
LOL
Knowing what I know now I would have walked away a couple months into the relationship.
None of it was due to my attitude.
She had issues.
I wasnt going to be able to fix her issues (which I wasn’t even trying to do) I just didn’t know it.
Like I said, you’re blinded because its you that is in the relationship.
This isn’t going to be a “happily ever after” ending for you guys.
You’ll just have to learn the hard way.
You have had 15+ people tell you this.
You have had several people tell you they were in the same situation and it doesn’t go well.
You just don’t want to hear it.
You’re different.
Your situation is different.
You’re a special snowflake.[/quote]
Does the girl/woman you’re with now have issues?
The way I see it, and I could be wrong, is that everyone has issues that can be worked on. And, those issues may or may not affect other parts of your life.
Originally, her issues were causing problems with the relationship, because I let them cause problems. (My issues.)
Nowadays, the only person her issues are causing problems for is her.
I made a lot of progress myself by questioning my belief system and changing a few things. I think she would be a lot happier if she did the same. Right now she’s not seeing it – and it took me awhile to see it with myself, so I understand that – and I’m wondering if there’s an approach that might help.
I didn’t read after the first page and already knew the typical answers of “it’s your fault” and “she’s fucked up, leave her” would come up.
If I were you, after trying to delve deep down to help find the root of these problems, I’d heavily suggest a therapist.
If she is really unhappy, but it’s not a damper on your relationship, just something in the shadows that bothers you (which is how I’m seeing your situation) then she should be willing to do that.
There could be any number of things that happened or that she is going through that don’t allow her to see what she’s doing or cause her to be in denial about it. Unless you’re qualified to really work these things out with her, a professional may be what is needed.
If it isn’t a big issue, then maybe you can just ignore it? Have you tried that? Or if it’s a trend that keeps happening, find a way to avoid it. Like for example, give yourself a specific time limit on late night phone calls.
Even if she’s talking a lot, you know she’s going to blame you for keeping her on all night, so after about 20 minutes just start finding some reason to get off the phone. Schedule a late-night activity just to legitimize it so you don’t feel guilty about jumping off the phone and remember that its’ really because of HER that you are doing it.
It also seems to me like you’ve been kind of a pushover with her. Changing major parts of your life to cater to her. With some women, this will give them the green light to walk all over you, which may simply be what she is doing. I’m sure you’ve thought about this, but have you really, really thought about it while making sure there isn’t the slightest hint of denial on your part?
I’m not sure, but either way, good luck. If it’s serious enough, eventually something will have to give and the problem will end one way or another.