Seeking Girlfriend Advice

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Just a possibility. I didn’t read everything. It’s possible that she may not love you in a way that she thinks she should and harbors guilt for said feelings or a lack of them.[/quote]

I got confused reading that. Pronouns got misplaced?

Secondly, any ideas how to shorten it? I guess I could drop the whole “examples” section.[/quote]
No, no pronouns were misplaced from what I could see. Not as musical a post as I could concoct, but it serves its purpose. I hypothesize that she’s acting upon her guilt. I could be wrong. I very well could be wrong, but that’s mighty damn improbable. It is also possible that she is fearful of her emotions. Fear or guilt.

Don’t bother with the OP. The issue is visible. Address it.[/quote]

I see what you mean… crammed a bit too much for me into a terse statement. It’s ok to be a bit redundant sometimes ;-)[/quote]
lol Either way, I hope all goes well for you.[/quote]

Ok, so, if that were the case – that she’s acting on her guilt – what would you do?

How would you use that information to enact (or enable) any sort of transformation?[/quote]
I’d get the fuck out of dodge.

Reminds me of a girl I knew back in college.

Not quite similar, and I’m still not entirely sure if I’m the idiot and completely misunderstood her, but I got the sense after living as her housemate for a year that she’s poison.

Lovable poison, but that’s sort of why she’s poison. People can’t be toxic to you unless you care for them, ya?

You don’t stay with poison mate. Even if you love her from the bottom of your heart and want her to be happy.

I know you say that leaving her is not an option. But it has to be an option.

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I was in an unhealthy relationship.
I was a “fixer”
Always went way out of my way to help her, make her happy, whatever.
People around me could see that the relationship wasnt healthy but I was that guy.
“You guys don’t understand. Things are great 99% of the time! I love her!”
Did everything for this girl.
She ended up cheating on me after being really serious for 2+ years and we were talking marriage.

You just don’t see it when you’re in it.
I know this will fall on deaf ears because your situation is different but I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I’ve seen it happen to good friends of mine.[/quote]

If you were in that relationship again, how would you handle things differently?

It sounds like the unhealthy part of that relationship was because of your behavior. I’m assuming you’ve changed your approach since then (I’d hope.)

How would that relationship have turned out, had you not been such a pushover back then?

And/or at what point would you have pulled the plug?

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
So, I’m not really sure what you’re getting at.[/quote]

I know.

Sometimes carrying your own plus someone elses baggage in a relationship isn’t what needs to be done. Sometimes you have to drop hers and lighten up your own.

Nobody gets through any amount of time in this world unscathed. Look through your own stuff. See what could use a little tweaking. You want to blahdeblah a paradigm shift or what ever? Change the way you interact with the world and you will change the way the world interacts with you also.
[/quote]

Thanks for the advice. That makes a lot more sense to me put that way.

I’m also not sure whether you meant to imply it, but I see I’ve definitely had some part in “enabling” her.

I was in a relationship that had a similar element to yours, did everything I could for her, yet she would sometimes say that she didn’t believe I cared about her. Came down to the fact that she didn’t reciprocate care for me in the same way and because she didn’t reciprocate, she couldn’t believe my care for her was genuine but thought there was some other reason I stayed in the relationship (like just wanting to be with someone, or I wanted to prove I could make the relationship work, or something like that).

Also similarly, it wasn’t a drag most of the time and I would have also said I was happy and content. The problem was that she wasn’t happy and the reason was because I wasn’t the person who she wanted me to be.

Just offering this in case there’s any similarity at all, and there may be since some of the negativity you listed indicates a one-sided relationship, despite what you say about how she generally feels about you, etc.

It’s been my observation that the more we try to directly “help” the people closest to us with their personal shit the less inclined they are to make positive changes in their mindset/actions/attitudes. Most people just are how they are. Personal transformation is a pretty rare and intensely personal business. I’m sure there are complex psychological reasons for this, but from a practical standpoint they don’t matter. The harder you push the harder they dig in. An impartial third party may be able to help guide them on that journey when they are ready to make a change, a person in whom they are personally emotionally invested cannot.

If you are ok with her exactly how she is (as you say you are), cool carry on. Be a loving, positive presence for as long as you feel inclined to do so, but be honest about how her actions/attitudes impact you. However, any direct action you take to try to change her way of thinking will likely only reinforce it and pull you both back into the shit spiral. In a very real way, we’re all in this alone and, ironically, this is seldom more true than when dealing with those we love.

Edited

Well, I too remember being in a similar relationship. In a relationship that centered around HER feeling, emotions and thoughts.
Which wasn’t all that bad… as long as her feelings, emotions and thoughts were more or less positive. We definetly had some great times together. Fenomenal sometimes. But then she’d get upset over something and things would turn (She had some shit in her life - I’ll give her that).

She’d either start an arguement completly out of thin air, or just end the relationship (well, suspend is more like it. We’d get back together soon every time. Till the last time that is). I dunno how similar this sounds to OP’s situation. His relationship sounds more… consistant.

And I’d much rather give some sort of a good advice and wish the OP luck. But I eventualy stopped taking her and the relationship siriously. I think she caught on to that pretty fast and we kept in touch for a while as fuck buddies, but we eventualy stopped seeing each other.

And that was actualy a good thing, now that I look back. But it was really difficult. Someone allready wrote, that you can’t really get emotionaly hurt by people you don’t care about… And I cared about her… so much… and it hurt just as much. But I ended up being happyer without her, and later evin happyer in another relationship.

And looking back - thinking if I could have done things differently… Ya - I could have. I could have gone right to the fuck buddies part of the whole thing and saved me a lot of heartache.
Not every relationship is worth saving.

I think it’s weird to ask for advice from peaople who have no idea about any details of your situation.
Advices have been pretty consistant, though. Does not mean they’re all right.
Maybe you’ll stay with her, tame the unicorn, make it work and prove us all wrong.
But chances are - you’ll end up telling this story in retrospective in some muscle forum where a dude will not heed your advice:))

[quote]LoRez wrote:

(I quit my job, left friends behind, moved cities, and changed significant parts of my lifestyle in order to adapt to hers.)

[/quote]

Big mistake.

I think people need to have some sort of seperateness/differences/uniqueness in a relationship.

Leaving friends, changing significant parts of your lifestyle inorder to suit some one else, you simply detach from being yourself, and not sure how’s that going to work in the long run.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

At this point it’s not even really about what I’m getting from the relationship. I’m getting what I want. She’s just fundamentally unhappy, and I’m hoping there’s something I can do.

[/quote]

You do not want enough.

[quote]outlaws wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

(I quit my job, left friends behind, moved cities, and changed significant parts of my lifestyle in order to adapt to hers.)

[/quote]

Big mistake.

I think people need to have some sort of seperateness/differences/uniqueness in a relationship.

Leaving friends, changing significant parts of your lifestyle inorder to suit some one else, you simply detach from being yourself, and not sure how’s that going to work in the long run. [/quote]

Unlike you, I am absolutely convinced that this wont work in the lon run.

The first few lines read like a textbook dump situation to me.

Man I don’t get this…

I mean, my girlfriend gets a little pissy for a couple days every month and I consider her telling to snap the fuck out of it or we are done…

Why would anyone accommodate a sad depressing person

Why theee fuck would you want to surround yourself with someone like that?

Gawd this thread was hard to read. She has deep seated insecurity and low self esteem and is pushing you away in an effort to validate the feelings that she really isn’t truly loved and isn’t worth it.

If you want to save it, tell her she needs help or you’re out. Go to counseling, because at this point she isn’t going to take YOUR advice and she’s only taking the things she wants to hear from what YOU say. Then she spins it. She feels the way she feels because she wants to. Its that simple. Seriously. The power of choice makes you responsible for your own behavior, thoughts, and feelings. She’s playing the reactive victim. She loves you, probably, but needs that drama and push-pull to validate her self negativity.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Seriously though, she’s a twentysomething who’s already divorced and has obvious relationship/trust/self esteem issues.
You’ve bent over backwards and she still doesn’t see it.
What do you expect to happen?
Blinded by love.[/quote]

I… expect things to continue pretty much as they are. 99% of the time everything is actually really good; 1% of the time she starts a stupid argument about something stupid.[/quote]

I rarely ever post anything on this or any forum, but I felt a social responsibility here, because I know what her problem is, and the 99/1 numbers that you posted made it click.

I have a friend who married a girl he had only known briefly. This is normal and expected in his culture, so please no questions on the story itself. A few days after the wedding, his new bride was sitting on the corner of their bed frowning. She told him that she “feels so alone” and was in no way comforted by the fact that she was in the presence of her husband. In the coming weeks, she periodically went into fits of blaming him for not caring about her, disrespecting her, and not giving her what she needs. He always reassured her, but the only real way to appease her was to sort of grovel and do whatever she wanted in the moment. He asked her father what the deal was and he said “99% of the time she is an angel, and the other 1% you just have to give her what she wants, whatever it is.”

So a very long story made short, it turns out that these are all signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. She also had bulimia and possibly bipolar. Look up BPD on wikipedia for more information, I see many parallels to the story you are telling us now. This girl’s now ex-husband, my friend, told me that he read a book about BPD and i described giving a person with the disorder what they needed emotionally as akin to “attempting to fill the grand canyon with a squirt gun.” Seem familiar?

The disorder also masks itself well. People with it can fake normality effectively, and are often not diagnosed because they behave differently around mental health professionals. It usually is only impossible to hide when their inability to be emotionally intimate or tendency to “plot” is revealed, but this can take years and even people close to them may not connect the dots.

Devaluing your role and sacrifices to please her are typical borderline. Self-harm, risky behavior, lying and promiscuity are also pretty common. I am not qualified to diagnose, but nearly everything you have told us about her lines up with BPD.

[quote]At this point it’s not even really about what I’m getting from the relationship. I’m getting what I want. She’s just fundamentally unhappy, and I’m hoping there’s something I can do.

Also, maybe it wasn’t clear, but I did stop bending over backward for her a long long time ago. I will say that was one of the best decisions I ever made. In response, she now does the same for me. She started putting a lot more work into the relationship.[/quote]

LoRez clearly cares a lot about this girl, and I think that the other posters in this thread need to decide whether or not they care about LoRez, because anyone trying to give advice on how to fix an obviously broken girl is not doing him any favors, and probably just acting as an enabler, helping him to get in deeper with this girl (grown woman?). Anyone who gives him hope of accomplishing what he is attempting is only participating in a delusion, because Borderline or not, this girl needs more help* than a boyfriend can give her.

  • I know that things must be pretty bad, because if you had a girlfriend who just got annoyed and whined sometimes, you would not be an a forum asking for advice. You, like most men, would just know it was normal and ignore it. The fact that you are on here tells us all that things are very, very wrong.

She needs a psychiatrist, sadly no one on this thread can give you a magic solution. Best luck

Happiness comes from a decision, a choice to be happy. If someone cannot be happy without given a reason to be, they will never truly be happy, especially when that reason is taken away, changes, or loses its novelty. When that happens, they will resort back to their natural state, which is that of being unhappy. There is nothing you or any external force can do to change that.

[quote]jglickfield wrote:
So a very long story made short, it turns out that these are all signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. [/quote]

Came to write this…

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]jglickfield wrote:
So a very long story made short, it turns out that these are all signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. [/quote]

Came to write this…
[/quote]

Also occurred to me, but don’t think there’s enough info to make that call.[/quote]
Yeah obviously it’s never really possible to “diagnose” someone with anything via the internet. Can be interesting looking at the signs though. I had never really read about BPD before. My ex exhibited literally every behavior they listed. Makes you wonder.