Understood, and expected. The words posted above by three different guys will suffice.
Good luck.
Cheers lads, yes im going to try a hcg with nolva protocol to see if i can kick start system, need this anyway from GP to keep fertile so may as well give a go. Thinking 500 iu x 2 weekly and ill get some nolva from UGL as drs wont provide this i bet!!
If this is not successful, then ill be going private cos not doing this all the time, they are fu£@£#£# useless!!
After all the above bollocks with Practice Nurse/GP, who said she contacted a Dr who then contacted a consultant who said max is 2 days before the 3 week date!
My urologist has just replied and said, i can have it with immediate effect! So booked in tomorrow now to get it done, what an absolute fu£#£@#!! 
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@rusty_hammer @highpull @thefloorislava @systemlord @Voluminous
Right lads, been on Sustanon 250 for a few injections now. Obviously up and down like a roller coaster.
I’ve been feeling a warm localised feeling in right calf for a few days now. Hoping it’s not a blood clot, i’m on 250mg every 14 days, surely thats not enough to clot the blood so soon is it? Did go to a party and was smoking and socialising a little. I’m hoping its just a slight pulled muscle but feels a little weird and been a few days now. Had some aspirin yday to see if thins blood a little to help, but that has it’s own gastro issues.
I need to get off TRT for now due to fertility reasons and obviously the above if it is, and a few other reasons for now (will jump back on in due course if needed).
What is the best way to get off this with minimal withdrawal issues? What HCG and nolva protocol to take if anybody done this? Is it best to start low (500iu x 2 a week? Or high 1000 iu x 2 pw or higher? Along with nolva). Don’t think drs will supply it as they are useless. My urologist won’t comment on it as not his expertise. I still awaiting my referral to go through for endo but god knows how long that will take!
Please let us know your thoughts and best way around this, cheers
I need to get off
Restart protocol: hCG @ 500 IU 2-3 times per week, followed by 28 days of clomid.
Be careful and thorough with docs I went to a uro recently. He latched on to me complaining somewhat about urination and made ED an after thought. Wanted to shuv a tube and all that to check my bladder and “urination urination urination”. ED was hardly addressed besides telling me about shockwave which would cost $250 per session, 6 sessions.
Funny he didn’t want to experiment with meds for bladder without knowing the full picture. But didn’t mind suggesting the ultra expansive shockwave without doing some sort ultrasound or mri or CT.
Testosterone does not cause blood clots. I’d get that checked, it’s easy.
Dependent on how quickly you are looking to conceive, 500IU hCG 3x/week.
Cheers, yes will do that that 2 x per week, would it be enough, and how would i know to increase it to 3? Can i use nolvadex instead of clomid at all? Heard clomid can cause major issues/sides👍🏽
Just a few more q’s please?
Im guessing insulin pin is ok for this, what size needle? And measurement on there, as in how much is 500iu etc?
I’ve been having 250mg of Sustanon 250 every 2 weeks, if it was my last injection and gonna come off… how long after would be best to start the HCG?
Cheers guys, so it’s not likely this is not a blood clot in calf as testosterone doesnt cause it? I thought testosterone thickens blood viscosity and therefore can cause them? Im gonna get checked out anyway cos not sure what it could be as it is a strange feeling etc.
No chance, TRT increases red blood cells only, you need platelets increases to clot and that requires another mechanism.
Go to high altitude and you get the same affect as TRT as far as increases in blood thickness or increases in red blood cells.
Also people living between 1500-3500 ft have a reduced risk of stokes, being admitted to a hospital and dying.
When you decide to stop TRT, start hCG.
I see thanks, just wondering if smoking may have caused platelets to increase? Was in rotterdam with lads socialising so did participate in smoking cannabis in and drinking would this be cause for concern?
Any ideas on above issue please?
Smoking increases platelet activation and aggregation.
Difficult question I know, but could it make a massive impact to increase them enough to cause issues like a blood clot?
Thanks, how long for would you say i need to do this, how do you know when to stop? Ill be doing HCG - 500 iu x 2/3 per week. Would you do a wk or 2 of hcg on its own and then add nolva?
Yes, absolutely by 100 times!
Long-term smoking results in haemostatic dysfunction in chronic smokers - PMC.
Ok shit. This has caused major concern, im getting off TRT and on HCG asap (obviously didn’t have these issues when wasn’t on TRT) , but what else can i do to stop this… apart from stop! Which i know but its almost impossible to do so… is there anything i can do to assist?? I will cut down sooo much!
The correct move is stop smoking. I stopped Clonazepam after 30 years, went through hell. So I know full well what I’m asking you to do,
Yes I will definitely cut down n then try stop in due course, is cannabis just as bad? I used to smoke lots of it, but have recently cut down to 1 a night as it really helps with my anxiety issues and only thing that helps me sleep after years of smoking it heavily! Heard many bodybuilders do like to have some and been fine on gear/TRT? I will cut down on nicotine today though!
However, on trips to Rotterdam and Amsterdam with family ends in having heavy sessions on it both cannabis and cigarettes. I will refrain from this next time.
However in the meantime, research indicates vitamin c assists in helping negate the clots? There’s many on the market at 1000mg but the body can only absorb so much so is it worth purchasing this? Or best to go for a lower dose etc?
I thought Australia was bad… and we are
Our guidelines / indicative criteria for the induction of TRT are THE strictest in the world
But at the very least we have conditions that flag down indication for T. My 1st cousins ex wife is a psychiatrist in Belgium.
I got into a ‘debate’ with her about TRT. She was telling me people with klinefelters syndrome don’t need trt because they ‘can live without it’.
I was explaining that TRT was medically appropriate because they have primary hypogonadism. Untreated, people with klonefelters syndrome are at high risk of developing
- osteoporosis
- metabolic syndrome
- type 2 diabetes
- cardiovascular disease
They also tend to have microorchidism… TINY, damn near non functioning testis. I suppose she meant “they can LIVE” without it. I suppose they can, but they’ll never truly become ‘men’ without replacement.
You’d think a psychiatrist would have more insight as to how living like that could have a profoundly negative impact on mental health. She would work rotations at inpatient facilities… From then on whenever interacting with her (she was very attractive btw) I couldn’t stop thinking of a scenario unfolding wherein a patient with undiagnosed klinefelters rocks up at the inpatient facility she works at
Depressed… at crisis with his grip on masculinity, or lack thereof. Said patient looks like he has been dipped in a vat of soy and estradiol.
He has his own set of DD’s and a micropenis… and the guy has antidepressants, antipsychotics (antipsychotics like risperidone further decrease testosterone), cognitive behavioural therapy… doctors are scratching their heads… what could possibly be leading this man with DD boobies and hips far wider than his shoulders to feel like he isn’t manly enough?
Better yet… why would a fully grown man with a testosterone level of 4nmol/l with a FT of 80pmol/l POSSIBLY feel depressed, tired all the time…
Yes i’m talking shit for the sake of talking shit here… but god damn dude… I can certainly imagine men with legitimate endocrine pathology having heavy duty psych meds thrown at them.
Then… a MIRACLE occurs! Man with klinefelters is diagnosed! What’s the treatment?
A shot of 50mg testosterone cypionate once a month! That’ll fix him right up!
I remember when gel didn’t work for me (have issues with hyperhidrosis caused by dysautonomia in relation to EDS that make absorption an issue)… and I was switched to 1 shot of sustanon every 3-4 wks
I remember saying “fuck it” and buying synthetic, short acting androgens (TNE, drostanolone propionate etc) to bridge after wk 2 as my doc wasn’t testing lipids at the time. It took six months before being given 125mg/wk, which eventually went to 150mg/wk (no problems with HCT… T levels weren’t heinously supraphysiological). Even bumped that up to 200mg for a while knowing fully that 200mg wasn’t TRT. I knew that something wasn’t right with me… didn’t know what it was but I knew that I had pain, hypermobility, fatigue and that extra muscle mass helped a LOOOOOT.
After enjoying a little bit of a boost for a year or two with the intermittent experiment here and there I got sick of cystic acne, aggravated dysautonomia and dyslipidemia (have some form of primary inherited dyslipidemia).
Have been on 75-100mg/wk ever since, but might actually go back to blasting despite the high risk associated for someone such as myself as it actually allowed me to live a normal life. The longer I go without weightlifting / having that extra muscle, the closer I get to making a transition… going from human to human pudding…
Klinefelters (with treatment) have reduced mean lifespan by around 3 years. The to which lifespan is shortened likely increases with no treatment (cause of death mediated by presence of premature onset cardiovascular disease)
That’s the baseline level of knowledge doctors have in the field of andrology within Europe… Australia is bad… but not THAT bad
On the other hand, still easier to get on TRT in EU, UK etc than it is in Aus.
On an unrelated note, the prize for most absurd reference range I’ve ever seen goes to Israel… saw bloods where a total testosterone of 40 nanograms per deciletre was the cut off re the lower end of normal… ref range was like 40-550 @anon18050987
There is no assay variation or cohort of healthy young men on the planet that can justify this ADULT reference range being used…
40ng/dl… imagine your bloods come back at 60ng/dl and the doc ticks it off as normal. That’s what’s so problematic about these ref ranges. Many docs won’t flag abnormal bloods for something like T, cholesterol, WBC/RBC count if something is slightly askew.
When reference ranges are that fucked up to begin with, that’s a real problem. If that reference range were to be systemically implemented… what would be the cutoff for flagging hypogonadism?
10 ng/dl? I think you’ll have a higher TT from adrenal output of testosterone alone… A 6 year old child produces around 10mg/dl
A woman will frequently produce around 40ng/dl.
Aside from that ref range… i’ve seen a number of ref ranges specify that 60-90ng/dl is "normal’'… when literature is fairly uniform in the recommendation a total testosterone level of below 300 should never really be considered ‘normal’.
Free testosterone is more important sure… but you’d be hard pressed to find a guy with a TT below 300 who doesn’t have low FT
But at that… have you seen how low some ref ranges are going for free testosterone?
My free testosterone of 180-200pmol/l and total testoserone of 5-10nmol/l (varied) is downright mid normal according to many current ref ranges!
Fucking absurd.
5nmol is around 150ng/dl… 10nmol/l is I think 290ng/dl
What a healthy young stud! Totally normal for 17-18 years old! 