See How Kerry Will Lose The Debate

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]ZEB wrote:
RSU:

Once again you have it all wrong! You don’t “irk me so.” In fact, I think it’s quite the reverse. I just thought it might be fun to see who has more faith in their candidate. Prior to my challenge you were obviously pro Kerry.
[/quote]
I was and am still voting for Kerry. This is not to say I “love” Kerry or everything he’s ever said and done. When there are two candidates in a race, you can be for or against either of them. In my case, the degree to which I’m against Bush outweighs the degree to which I’m for Kerry. Is this so tough to understand?

[quote]
“My position is and has been proudly anti-Bush.” Oh really? When called down to support your candidate you claim not to have one. Imagine that.[/quote]
Here is what I’ve posted in a thread called “What is Kerry Doing to Himself” by Chrisrock, just one week ago:

"[quote]I agree…that Kerry has hurt himself by apparently contradictory remarks, especially regarding the war.

When asked for his current position on the war, he should have said something like “I voted for it because our President’s administration convinced us all it was necessary. I voted for it because our leader told us we were in great danger. Knowing what I know now, I would not have voted for the war. Though we were successful in removing a brutal dictator, I don’t believe it was worth the lives of 1000 US soldiers, and I think our money should have been spent more wisely and effectively in fighting the war on terror. I, like the rest of America, was fooled by our President.”

That’s what liberals want to hear…we want to hear some freaking backbone and a strong stance. [/quote]"

Later in that thread, I said this:

"[quote]I preferred Dean – I liked his attitude and was disappointed when (I think) the media did him in.

Kerry, however, doesn’t totally disappoint. I respect him regarding his personal and carreer achievements, and I obviously agree with more of what he has to say regarding issues than I do the incumbant.[/quote]"

So, ZEB, I do believe you should understand my position now. I understand if you feel foolish now – maybe you missed this thread, or have simply not been paying attention to ANY of my posts – being too busy running with the story you wish to be true in your own little ZEB-o-sphere.

[quote]
It’s looking quite a bit like the Gym rat who claims a big Bench Press. When called to prove it he backs away: “Well, these Benches are not the same as the ones I workout on, or I hurt my arm and I’m not Benching right now.” [/quote]
This just might be the worst analogy I’ve ever seen. ZEB, your posts are suffering as of late, and this latest effort to discredit and demean me is backfiring particularly strongly.

[quote]
Sure RSU, we all understand (wink). You would like to take me up on my challenge , but it’s just that you don’t really have a candidate…okay.[/quote]
I do have a candidate – John Kerry.

[quote]
You are now telling the forum that you do not support John Kerry![/quote]
Like I’ve said, I hope your clear now, Mr. Black and White. I wonder if your asses voice ever gets tired.

[quote]
Well, if my challenge did nothing else it pulled you away from your beloved candidate. I guess it was worth the time to post it.[/quote]
I understand how you taught your kids not to think they’re the center of the universe…because you taught them that Daddy is! Who loves you more than you, ZEB?

[quote]
I didn’t think that you would take me up on the challenge-that would take guts. You would rather change positions when called down. Sort of like…(here it comes) a kid![/quote]
Now that your entire post has been torn to shreds, can I get an apology, you sucker?

[quote]
In a way I am glad that you backed down. I wouldn’t want you removed from the forum for three months. I want you right there in front of your keyboard when President Bush is reelected. As you have tacitly admitted that he will be![/quote]
I don’t know how you think that outcome of the election somehow weighs positive or negative as a testament to our thinking or logic…it’s like you think that if Bush wins you “guessed right” or “knew right” and I “wrong.” It’s quite a strange phenomenon, ZEB – that brain of yours!

[quote]
I have way to much fun with you kid, and for that I thank you!

(still pulling for you)[/quote]

That “fun,” has again turned into your humiliation, ZEB…

How do you feel now after playing up your imagination for an entire post of how I once claimed to LOVE KERRY only to change that position when called into “duel” by his ZEB-ness? You do see, don’t you, that I’ve never LOVED Kerry?

You also see, I hope, that this isn’t the reason I didn’t take you up on your little wager? I declined because it’s simply stupid – the outcome of the election reflects nothing of our own merits.

22

RSU:

I predicted such a post from someone so weak! If you cannot stand behind your man talk…and keep talking, and don’t stop. Oh and throw out personal instults you will never have to stand behind. Yep, that’s a kid for you.

You quoted one of your posts where you criticized John Kerry. Big deal, there are many more where you defended him. You have the time, (apparently your course load is not up to the other boys) to look up all of your former posts, so go check them. Unfortuneately, I read them the first time and have no desire to read them again.

Let me explain one last thing to you kid. In the real world when you are called down to defend something, in this case your man John Kerry, you either stand behind him (and take me up on my challenge) or you kick up dust and bluster about your position as you just did! How predictable.

My analogy is right on! You are that bragging Gym rat who when called to perform simply can’t do it! You stated: “I declined because it is simply stupid.” Let me interpret that for you: “Please leave me alone I just want to post my immature rants and not have to stand behind them.” I always new you were a kid, but now I know you are a scared little kid. The thought of three months away from the political forum really rattles your world huh? Wow!

Do the forum a big favor and stay tuned for the debates. In the meantime keep entertaining everyone with your “frat boy logic.” I know I find it amusing and all of the T-Men who PM me also find it absolutely entertaining!

Again, I thank you son!

(still pulling for you)

23

Vroom, tme, Lumpy, RSU-

Good stuff gentlemen… Especially your Bush Q@A RSU!

Zeb-

You are the childish one… Always trying to come off like you are so seasoned and wise. Cool it with the gym insults, I’m sure there are many Republicans and democrats alike that will best your ass in the gym. RSU is probably one of them!

24

Elk:

Please reread my post. I was not demeaning anyones Gym effort. I was simply making and analogy. As any of us who train regularly have heard phonies in the Gym saying they can lift more than they actually can. When pushed to perform, they back down. Much like RSU has with this political challenge. There was no demeaning of anyones Gym effort. I have never done that, never will!

Nor, do I think myself especially wise among my peers. Unfortunately, RSU does have an inflated opinion of his own abilities relative to his analysis of current political events. And his personal attacks on all who disagree with him are simply…well childish. As I have stated in the past this has to do with his years, or lack thereof.

Although, Quite honestly I have spoken with several twenty something college kids that are very impressive in that department. They also have resect for their fellow man, something RSU is also lacking.

As far as my own Gym efforts I am sure there are plenty of people who can best me in every lift. However, I would bet that RSU is not one of them…just a hunch.

Take care Elk,

Zeb

25

ZEB, I started to reply to your last post, but I realized that you’ve infact said nothing new and I’m content with how I addressed your reiterations the first time in my previous posts.

The more you post, the more you seem like a real big jerk. You’re obnoxious and YOU’RE childish (with your “challenges” and “scaredy-cat” taunts), and you have no threshold for people with ideas that challenge yours. You despise me, in particular, because I don’t ever back down from you – not since day one when we started this wrestling match. Further, you fabricate reasons to criticize me based on your own insecurities and my strengths that threaten you.

You’re a sad man, ZEB. And with that, I’d like to offer to spare the rest of this forum from any further banter…if you wish to have the last word, do it in a PM (and, for the 20th time, why not include where you went to school and what you studied, unless of course, you’re education resume ends with HS).

26

RSU,

Your faux-interview of Bush was cute, if unoriginal and not especially clever, but history doesn’t bear out the circumstances you describe.

Debates are canned. Candidates are prepared, maybe even too prepared.

Yet, Bush does well in this format. One need only look at the 2000 when expert policy-wonk and debate guru Al Gore was slated to blow Bush out of the water. Anyone who saw the Democratic primary debate between Gore and Bradley was sure Gore had the upper hand - myself included.

But Bush is, as usual, undersold. His plain language style plays well, and Kerry looks dangerously reliant on listening to consultants too much. Couple Kerry’s aloof and dull style with his penchant for speaking elliptically and giving answers drowning in subordinate clauses, and I think there a chance Bush’s approach will play better. And, when you figure Kerry is going to see a shit-storm of his policy contradictions, he’s going to spend a lot of time backpedaling, and that won’t be to his advantage.

No guarantees, Bush has his work cut out for him, especially if he gets some tough questions, but this tired, cheap, lazy recipe of “Bush is dumb and he don’t talk good” only gets smug liberals in trouble. That elitist eye-rolling sneer is an infection of the Left, one that continues to lose elections.

As for all the personal crap flying around, I don’t care if you’re from Yale or jail - make an argument and defend it. That’s all I care about.

27

if you are sure kerry is going to win the debates, why not agree to zeb’s challenge?

28

RSU:

Hey, glad to finally hear back from you kid! I thought you dropped off the face of the earth after I posted my challenge to you. Did you need some time to gather yourself together? I understand. It’s a frightening thought having to back up your words by standing behind John Kerry. Yikes!

Well…let’s see your most recent post includes five or six personal attacks. That might be a record for you. You are starting to sound like a nasty little man, or is it just immaturity? Could be a combination of both…Ah who knows?

Seriously, let’s clear something up. I do not “despise you.” I think you’re amusing, and I think you add to the board with your funny posts (they are supposed to be funny right?)I think after you get a little older you will realize that life is to short to “despise” someone over a political disagreement on a message board. Wow, did I really make you that mad? Sorry.

I thought we were having fun going back and forth, well at least I was. I think you really started to flip out when I challenged you to leave the board for three months if Kerry lost, and I would do the same if Bush lost. Is that what sent you off the deep end?

I don’t really look at this stuff as being all that serious. That’s one reason why I try not to name call. While I have called you immature, and told you that you need to grow up on occasion. I feel justified in my analysis especially after reading your most recent post. Let’s face it, you are sitting at your keyboard typing off personal insults over…a political debate. I don’t know…seems sort of…let’s see what’s the word, immature!

Finally, let me just add that it’s okay for you to be liberal, and it’s okay for me not to be so liberal. We can debate who is correct and that’s what is supposed to go on in a place like this. The self-inflicted wounds start when someone, like yourself goes off the deep end, takes all of this to seriously and gets himself all upset over nothing. Now you’re going to kick someones dog and slam someones door (note: you own neither) and just have a hissy fit huh?

My adivice is for you to take a deep breath and relax. Oh, and if you want to take me up on my challenge the offer still holds kid! You still have the opportunity to stand behind your man John Kerry. However, I will not blame you if you decide not to take me up on this. After all, who wants to stand behind John Kerry? Much easier to just type nasty things about President Bush and those who support him.

Take care kid!

(still pulling for you)

29

[quote]Cory089 wrote:
Be Presidential. Be direct. Be a leader. Bush does that, even when he says something wrong. That is why Kerry will lose the election.[/quote]

unfortunately, agreed. for some reason the dems waited too long to start using the same attack tactics the GOP has been using…

30

[quote]rainjack wrote:
How about that, tme? You left-wing, baby-killing, gay-loving, devil-worshiper.

[/quote]

what is wrong with any of that? except for the devil worshipping, and only because it is a waste of time to worship something that doesn’t exist?

31

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Yet, Bush does well in this format. One need only look at the 2000 when expert policy-wonk and debate guru Al Gore was slated to blow Bush out of the water. Anyone who saw the Democratic primary debate between Gore and Bradley was sure Gore had the upper hand - myself included.

But Bush is, as usual, undersold. His plain language style plays well, and Kerry looks dangerously reliant on listening to consultants too much. Couple Kerry’s aloof and dull style with his penchant for speaking elliptically and giving answers drowning in subordinate clauses, and I think there a chance Bush’s approach will play better. And, when you figure Kerry is going to see a shit-storm of his policy contradictions, he’s going to spend a lot of time backpedaling, and that won’t be to his advantage.[/quote]
Good points. However, it is my belief that Kerry will have an easier time “loosening up” than Bush will “smartening up.”

I hear you, but I disagree. I think criticizing Bush for his apparent lack of intelligence is perfectly appropriate and far more relavent than, say, criticisms of Clinton’s personal sexual behavior. It is my opinion that the holder of the highest office in the land ought to at least appear intelligent, if not actually be it.

[quote]
As for all the personal crap flying around, I don’t care if you’re from Yale or jail - make an argument and defend it. That’s all I care about.[/quote]
Nice.

32

[quote]joe_r wrote:
rainjack wrote:
How about that, tme? You left-wing, baby-killing, gay-loving, devil-worshiper.

what is wrong with any of that? except for the devil worshipping, and only because it is a waste of time to worship something that doesn’t exist?[/quote]

Well said Joe…you’ll receive either no response or something as ridiculous as you might suspect.

33

Well said Joe…you’ll receive either no response or something as ridiculous as you might suspect.

Sort of like the answers that I get from you regarding “The Challenge.”

34

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Well said Joe…you’ll receive either no response or something as ridiculous as you might suspect.

Sort of like the answers that I get from you regarding “The Challenge.”[/quote]

Why don’t you start a thread on it, ZEB? Call it ZEB’s challenge to RSU, and we can do nothing but argue over whether it is a silly bet or not.

No thanks – I’ve replied to you and made it very clear why I think your “duel” is stupid – now move on!

35

"Why don’t you start a thread on it, ZEB? Call it ZEB’s challenge to RSU, and we can do nothing but argue over whether it is a silly bet or not.

No thanks – I’ve replied to you and made it very clear why I think your “duel” is stupid – now move on![/quote]

Told you before kid, anything that you might lose you will term as silly. You don’t like the idea of sitting out for three months, so you don’t want to stand behind your words! Kids do that…

36

Zeb, had a few minutes and did a search to find a few of your many predictions. You’ve said:

Date – Prediction
3/04 – Bush by 6-8%
5/04 – Bush by 3-6%
7/04 – Bush by 2-5%

Two months since your last prediction and, continuing your trend, you should have Kerry and Bush in a dead heat. Trend still continuing, you should have Kerry winning by November! Are you sure you still want to bet me, as your own math seems to place the odds against you…

What’s your spread now, ZEB-stradamus?

37

Bush will be relected because America is dumb. We are taught to be dumb. We are treated like we’re dumb by the media and the politicians. We’re too stupid to know the truth. The truth is too REAL for the citizens of this country. We’re used to our prime time TV, who cares about politics.

Because of this, Bush will win. He is simple. America is simple.

Hopefully I’m completely wrong about us.

Goodnight :wink:

38

[quote]oboffill wrote:
Bush will be relected because America is dumb. We are taught to be dumb. We are treated like we’re dumb by the media and the politicians. We’re too stupid to know the truth. The truth is too REAL for the citizens of this country. We’re used to our prime time TV, who cares about politics.

Because of this, Bush will win. He is simple. America is simple.

Hopefully I’m completely wrong about us.

Goodnight ;)[/quote]

How do you explain that America is the one Super Power? Everyone else is more simple?

39

Oboffill,

“Bush will be relected because America is dumb. We are taught to be dumb. We are treated like we’re dumb by the media and the politicians. We’re too stupid to know the truth. The truth is too REAL for the citizens of this country. We’re used to our prime time TV, who cares about politics.”

Originally I wasn’t going to respond to this silliness, but I am struck at the irony of how stupid the author sounds, thus erasing his ability to preach down from the perch of ‘intelligence’.

“Because of this, Bush will win. He is simple.”

A great many smart people will vote for Bush. A great many smart people will vote for Kerry. The only thing dumb here is this ridiculous theory and its numbskull author.

40

RSU:

I’m Glad that you found the time to find and review my posts. I hope that you learned something.

You forgot to put in my own caveat regarding my predictions relative to the outcome of the Presidential election. I stated clearly on at least two occasions that the trend would shift and it is a close election. Close contests do not frighten me. How about you?

Because you have been a good boy and studied my posts I am going to give you yet another updated prediction: Bush by 3% to 5%! As I have previously stated, it is a close election and anything can happen to move those numbers either way. In a one way it reminds me of the close Carter vs. Ford election of 76’. I believe that one took place about four years before you were born!

As to your question: “Are you sure you still want to bet me?” Oh, I am absolutely sure! It’s you that has a difficult time actually standing behind your man Kerry. You are the one who is skittish (I am being kind with that word).

No one knows for sure who is going to win, so why not bet the three months? Come on kid, let’s have some fun with this one! Step out of your safety zone and let if fly.