I agree. Especially about looking at socioeconomic status as the metric for who should get help, or even extra points in admission considerations given their background.
Exactly. Unfortunately, socioeconomic status tends to correlate with race in this country, so it would still lead to more equitable access to education for minority students. It would just achieve that outcome in a way that very few people would have an issue with, and you wouldn’t run into the weird, racist policies at universities like Harvard where poor Chinese immigrants face higher admissions standards than poor Nigerian immigrants.
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Yep, it would disproportionately help certain minorities which is what AA tries to do, but it would not be using discrimination to do it. I think it is a lot easier to defend.
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I think you guys are also missing a very huge factor.
Those with means will be connected and know people. That is one of the biggest factors in being successful. Now of course you can be really smart in a chosen field and make a name for yourself, but you will still need support and connections to do really well.
This is why my parents almost put themselves in the poverty house sending their children to very expensive private schools. Of course, the education was better and that is important, but you get to befriend and rub shoulders with the money in your area and beyond. You can’t put a price on that.
The reason I am GC at a billion-dollar trucking company at 35? (Yes, I am qualified and have a good pedigree, but jobs like this just don’t fall in your lap you have to have some in usually) I played ball and went to high school with the owner’s son who is next in line to take the reins of the company in a few years.
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I’m not sure how this is an argument against anything that I’ve said. Wouldn’t these students be able to gain some of these relationships if they we admitted to the same, expensive private colleges?
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I never said it was an argument against what you said, but it is a factor to consider.
If they have the money to join a fraternity which is VERY expensive. They are unlikely to make connections at that level without some in or inclusion of a group - which usually costs money or you have an athletic skill and play college ball.
Just being random number 187672 college student won’t do shit for your connections.
Now, going to an Ivy League school or very good college will be helpful in some circles just based off the name. But again, you will be competing with people with the same pedigree AND connections.
Then they weren’t the person I was objecting to.
This is a myth. In New Jersey, predominately black and/or poor districts spend the same per pupil as white and/or more affluent districts. The poorer districts are not getting the same educational outcomes, not even close. Students in poor white districts, because there are poor white areas, perform better than poor black students, even if the black districts get more per pupil. The problem isn’t money.
No. I overcame adversity but it doesn’t mean I would make a good doctor, mechanic or basketball player.
We aren’t talking about a 50 point difference on the SAT.
Why should colleges do the job of elementary and secondary education as well as parents and communities? This is another example of deferring responsibility to someone else and it will also impact college tuition. Colleges will have to pay for these services somehow. The top down approach to fixing social problems does not work. It’s just a money grab.
Or we could fix the communities and make all of this unnecessary.
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Who is we?
IDK how one would go about fixing the communities.
Agreed. Any why should ‘we’ anyway.
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Parental involvement is one of the biggest indicators of academic success from a young age on.
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That would require the community to actually meet you halfway and participate and be involved.
Good luck there.
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Yep, this seems to be the issue.
The top down approach of pouring more money into schools in minority areas hasn’t worked. In my state the achievement gap has widened. All they look at though is improving schools / school programs.
I think from what can be controlled, there aren’t good incentives in place to fix the problem. A kid that doesn’t care about education, with parent(s) that also do not care isn’t going to see a noteworthy improvement in school performance from upgrading school facilities.
Maybe if it is a problem they actually want to solve, they could force involvement. Like say a kid is getting scores below a certain level, force the parent to sit in on one class a week until improvement. I think most parents would pressure their kids above that level if that was the case.
There are so many legal issues there I don’t see that as being feasible.
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Oh I am sure. I think it would actually work though.
My wife teaches 5th grade.
The kids I see that are issues or doing very poorly in school (when they have the ability to do better) you would have to physically handcuff the parent and bring them to the school.
Most have no father or male figure in their life to speak of.
I have heard excuses of, “I can’t come to my child’s meeting about his behavior and grades because I don’t have the gas money.”
Oh but you can sit your lazy ass at home and do nothing all day.
During covid when schools were virtual they had to literally send food home for these poor kids or else they would have nothing to eat because many of them all they eat all day is what is fed to them at school for free.
Many of them even said when the food was sent home the “boyfriend” or parents and I use that term loosely ate the food. There is no way to sugarcoat this. You have absolute scum having kids and treating their kids like shit / neglecting them and this is what you get.
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Now that would be entertaining. You could televise these in the same fashion they do “Cops.”
Are you going to have a police officer standing beside the parent, ready to take them to jail?
Are you going to have a single parent risk losing their job to sit in a class?
I wish some district would give this a try. Inquiring minds would love the entertainment.
And just know that the parents most likely to be required to sit through a day of class could easily have received an honorary PhD from Harvard in Classroom Disruption.
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Because for one we, we being the nation, are responsible for creating those communities. Second, we, we being the taxpayers, are putting money into those communities already. Why not make better use of it?
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And don’t think it isn’t a coincidence that the nuclear family and heterosexuality are under attack. If the dysfunctionality we see in the inner cities can manifest in the suburbs, we will finally have a level playing field. It’s a form of wealth distribution.
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Strongly disagree.
I don’t think social engineering has ever worked well, just my opinion though.
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Having watched some of the oral arguments in this case. The proponents of AA are laughable in their reasons for wanting to keep it.
Watching them defend what is essentially systemic racism is hilarious.
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