Figured some here would think this is worth discussing. Lot’s of precedent that would be overturned if the SCOTUS does what is expected.
This is one that I’d agree with overturning. I do think it is a good thing to have diversity in college, but to me the affirmative action method is fighting discrimination with discrimination.
I like this statement.
Was it a law passed by congress or the courts?
I’ve not seen any data that indicate better outcomes since implementing AA. I’ve seen data that indicate high levels of dropping out. It also presents an undeserved stain on the reputation of any minority who belongs where they are because of their ability and achievements.
The entire concept is based around mismatching people to schools, jobs and other opportunities. Of course this sets those kids up for failure.
Anyone who supports AA policies from a “racial justice” or “anti-racism” basis is a racist themselves. You’re literally saying that people need to be judged on their racial characteristics.
This policy was never going to improve the outcomes for minority students. It rarely has. This policy was always going to improve the outcomes for institutions who only care about the presence of minorities on campus, not their success.
Like many progressive policies, it is self-congratulatory in nature. It allows elite institutions to virtue signal about diversity with no regard to whether or not it is good for the students or good for society.
Plus it is probably unconstitutional.
The supreme court doesn’t pass laws. Are you asking if its a similar situation to Roe v Wade?
I think it started out as an executive order by Kennedy. That version of AA mandated that things like college admissions / employment had to be color blind (you couldn’t negatively discriminate based on gender / race). I agree with this version.
I think that version didn’t produce results as quickly as some wanted. TBH, I am not sure how AA evolved over time. I think there was a bill passed? It has been limited by SCOTUS in the past. Also, versions of it have been upheld by SCOTUS.
I believe right now the current standard that SCOTUS set was that it would be constitutional for a college to use race as one factor out of many in admissions.
Yes, thats exactley what i am asking
because, the courts are not supposed to pass laws, like you said
It was started by JFK via executive order and extended by Johnson via executive order. Other sources of affirmative action law include the nondiscrimination mandates of the Civil Rights Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and other laws protecting groups like veterans.
Me too.
Take the best qualified period. Stop with the nonsense of taking race into account.
While I’m mostly agnostic towards AA policies and my intuition is that they are seriously flawed, I don’t think this statement is true. The argument that I’ve heard from AA proponents is that due to historical and current racism, minority students who are as smart and capable as their white peers are liable to end up with worse grades and lower test scores on average.
The idea isn’t that minority students should be held to a lower standard because they’re less capable, its that they – on average – have more things working against them, so their academic performance may be lower despite an equal amount of talent and hard work.
In my opinion, basing admissions standards on other metrics – say, having different standards for students who live in under-funded and impoverished zip codes or something like that – would be a better way to take those factors into account without relying on race as a proxy. The idea that a black son of a doctor and a university professor in New York is academically disadvantaged relative to the white son of a meth addict in Appalachia is pretty absurd to me. That said, I don’t think its inherently racist.
Helping the poor will disproportionately help the minorities that they want to help, but do it without using discrimination based on race.
I think that is a more palatable way of achieving the goal. I could support that in college admissions.
Agreed.
The crux of the case is that the only thing with more privilege than White Privilege is Yellow Privilege. They are a minority group that has the audacity to excel.
AA initially made some sense to help level the playing field for education and employment. The question is: How many decades does it make sense?
Another question that needs asked and analyzed is: Why do the Yellow minorities excel in education?
I think the answer you would get from the proponents of AA would often be until equality of outcome has been achieved.
In my days of engineering school, a lot of my fellow students were not very pleased with our Asian classmates because it was well known that they had formed cheating circles. I don’t know if that was specific to my school, or is more of a culture thing? Excelling in school certainly is a cultural thing. I could see where expectations from parents could drive higher levels of cheating.
Family dynamics. Emphasis on education and higher learning.
Their culture in general champions education and learning. They prop up “heroes” that are successful and intelligent.
Other cultures… not so much.
I find it strange that they can no longer put a limit on the number of Jews admitted to Ivy League schools, but they can put a limit on the number of Asians.
How were they cheating in engineering school?
If you had a policy that was replacing qualified minorities with less qualified whites, I think that would be deemed inherently racist.
Test scores and grades are objective metrics that predict success with very good accuracy.
TN has a program called TIPS. It guarantees minorities / disabled a spot in a state law school regardless of LSAT scores or grades, if they complete a 12-week course over a summer.
My law class had 12 of them out of 110. So, 12 spots went to people who were not qualified. 11 of them didn’t make it passed the first year. It was so obvious they didn’t belong there intellectually it was really sad honestly. Especially when the first year is full of cold-calling and putting you on the spot in front of the entire class ruthlessly.
The 1 that made it was a legally blind white dude.
Copying homework mainly. Big lecture halls allowed for test cheating as well, but this was more difficult. There were instances of those groups getting caught. IDK how I could quantify the scale of cheating though.
Other stuff that is more like cheating lite like buying solution manuals. That was common with everyone though.
I’m Indian. Since we’re lumped into the same group as East Asians, I’ll consider myself a “Yellow minority” haha. Doing well in school and heavy parental involvment is huge in our culture. Of course, it varies between households. Some parents will have their kids preparing for the SATs/ACTs in 9th grade haha.
And I truthfully don’t see anything genetic when it comes to us doing well in school/careers. In my pharmacy school, the African students did as well as Asians and much, much better than Whites. They were mostly from Nigeria, Cameroon, and Sierra Leone. Their families were old-school and pushed education and family values. As a result, you would have 1st gen immigrant families where everyone is a nurse, doctor, pharmacist, etc. On the other hand, the African-Americans, as in the one who were born in the U.S., did horribly on average haha.
And I’ve always despised affirmative action. Beyond it going against MLK’s words of judging people solely on their character, I always felt that I’m losing points on college/job applications when I put down that I’m an Asian man. Like, I didn’t choose to be born that haha.