Scotocus: What is a Bodybuilder?

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]Hatari Samaki wrote:

Frankly, the fact that he did so well in multiple international contests at 6 ft/175 lbs seems to say more about the state of natural competitions than about his physique. I don’t mean to denigrate your opinion, which is certainly better stated than many.

However, I do find it fascinating that a natural competitor with that build has done so well, and wonder what his competition must look like.
[/quote]

Natty bb shows today = a parody of a fitness comp.

Just my opinion, but yeah…

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I’m taking my ball and going home!!

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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Hatari Samaki wrote:

Frankly, the fact that he did so well in multiple international contests at 6 ft/175 lbs seems to say more about the state of natural competitions than about his physique. I don’t mean to denigrate your opinion, which is certainly better stated than many.

However, I do find it fascinating that a natural competitor with that build has done so well, and wonder what his competition must look like.

Natty bb shows today = a parody of a fitness comp.

Just my opinion, but yeah…
[/quote]

That is a bit of a blanket statement my friend.

I’ve provided only one example, there are many others within the ‘natty’ world.

Jim Cordova, INBF world champion

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Jim Cordova, INBF world champion

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Rodney Helaire, INBF World Champion

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Examples from the recent 2008 Natural Olympia in Ca. We need to remember that BB is a subjective sport. What appeals to one may not appeal to another. Also, many of us have areas that grow better/bigger than other areas. The point of BB is to be the best that ‘you’ can be.

The great part of BB, be it natural or otherwise is that no matter how short or tall, no matter what strength or weakness you may have to overcome, through dedication, consitency, diet and a sound program you can be better than you were before.

Each of these men look better than a high % of men walking around these days. That is unfortunate. So instead of saying things like, ‘well he has small pecs’ or ‘he isn’t as big as I think he should be’ etc…maybe we should give some credit and respect for them doing what many of us here haven’t.

Just a thought.

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[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Hatari Samaki wrote:

Frankly, the fact that he did so well in multiple international contests at 6 ft/175 lbs seems to say more about the state of natural competitions than about his physique. I don’t mean to denigrate your opinion, which is certainly better stated than many.

However, I do find it fascinating that a natural competitor with that build has done so well, and wonder what his competition must look like.

Natty bb shows today = a parody of a fitness comp.

Just my opinion, but yeah…

That is a bit of a blanket statement my friend.

I’ve provided only one example, there are many others within the ‘natty’ world.

Jim Cordova, INBF world champion
[/quote]

I believe that Cephalic_Carnage was talking about the standard of natural bodybuilding competitions in general, not just top level ones.

I don’t see how posting up photos of top natural competitors changes the fact that there are people competing onstage that have no business being there in the first place.

TRAJJ, I agree with some of what you’ve said, but I don’t think it’s fair to claim Cephalic_Carnage is making a blanket statement about the standards of natural competitions, then post up a series of photos depicting natural bodybuilding champions.

The very fact that they are champions proves that they are the exception rather than the norm.

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Cordova? natty? bwaaahahahahahaah!

And anyway he competes in the 170’s at five-fucking-seven. Thats a far cry from the 6 foot 175 pound “aesthetic monsters” you’re discussing.

Are you even in touch with reality here?

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
oneforship wrote:
HK24719 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Bodybuilding is a lifestyle that the vast majority of people are not acquainted with in any way. A bodybuilder is someone who lives the lifestyle.

That’s like saying a football player, golfer, or an athlete involved in any other sport needs to follow a certain lifestyle in order to be considered a real participant, which is bullshit.

No it’s not. I used to play baseball in college. I was (emphasis on past tense) a baseball player. I lived a certain lifestyle to support that performance and commitment, that was part of being a baseball player.

If you were to put me on a baseball field right now 9 times out of 10 (to be generous on that 10th time) I could kick the average person’s ass at anything baseball related. But I am no longer a baseball player, because I don’t live the lifestyle anymore.

And similarly when guys from this forum (or it could be any BBing forum) get frustrated with twerps (small guys such as myself) who blatantly ignore or argue their advice, I would feel the same way about someone who ignored or argued what I had to say about playing the game of baseball and learning and improving at that particular sport.

Because I’ve DONE it, I’ve lived the lifestyle, and succeeded. It is annoying to see people with little or no talent for the sport of baseball try to critique or improve my game, when I’m actually at an elite level. I’m sure it is the same for many of the guys on this site.

Your looking at it from the wrong frame of mind, from a person that lives it,

What oneforship was getting at is…
what about the guy who lives the lifestyle but sucks at baseball? He lives the lifestyle but he’s surely not a baseball player.

Because of bodybuilding’s association with health, people seem to have this whole A for effort concept towards bodybuilding where long as you “Live the Life”. News flash theres a whole lot of people running around who think they “live the life”.

I don’t care about anybodies life, if I look at you and my first reaction isn’t “damn he must be a bodybuilder” I just don’t think he should be classified as one. Of course this is my opinion which is the point of the thread, I just felt the need to argue the lifestyle point as necessary.

Agreed. There are no doubt many people on this forum who train 3 days a week who try to call themselves “bodybuilders” in spite of the fact that their progress has been so minimal that NO ONE would ever consider them one on the street.

Progress made is the defining factor. You don’t get a gold star just for showing up.[/quote]

I train three days a week, what exactly is wrong with that?

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Still waiting on Scotocus to pop in.

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[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Cordova? natty? bwaaahahahahahaah!

And anyway he competes in the 170’s at five-fucking-seven. Thats a far cry from the 6 foot 175 pound “aesthetic monsters” you’re discussing.

Are you even in touch with reality here?[/quote]

Do you even read the posts? The pics are in reference to ‘natty’ comps = fitness comps. We’ve moved on from the 6’ 175lbs discussion, try to keep up.

In regards to the level of competition and the quality of the competitors we need to keep a few things in mind. First, everyone starts somewhere. I wouldn’t expect an amatuer ‘natty’ competition to rival the Arnold classic or Mr. O contest.

It is exactly what it is…an amatuer ‘natty’ contest. That means it is a starting point. If someone makes the decision to train hard and has the intestinal fortitude to even set foot on stage then I give them a lot more credit than some of the arm chair quaterbacks posting here. Its easy to sit behind a computer and post a bunch of insults and put downs.

Its quite another to actually walk the walk. Is everyone going to have a Mr. O physique? Of course not. But BB is a personal thing isn’t it? Being the best ‘you’ can be. Turning off the T.V. and getting into the gym. Just that alone says quite a bit about someone.

Now add the fact that they put in their effort and then go out to actually compete…I’ll give them the due respect for that as well regardless of how they do.

Another thing, I see a lot of high school kids playing sports even though they will never get to the pros. They do so perhaps in hopes of it, but they also do it for the sake of rising above those that…oh, I don’t know…sit on their computers and hurl sarcasm through the net. They do it for the enjoyment and the sake of accomplishment regardless of what level they rise to. Same for competition in BB.

I would offer this, unless you are going to train hard, eat clean and step on stage…maybe you shouldn’t talk smack of those that do. I say ‘you’ generically and not specifically.

My first example trains hard, eats clean,lives the lifestyle and goes out and makes his goal a reality and has the medals, swords and trophies in recognition for it from around the world.

Can anyone else here say that?

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[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

I train three days a week, what exactly is wrong with that?[/quote]

About 4 days.

:slight_smile:

j/k

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[quote]SteelyD wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
You clearly are NOT a professor. Thank goodness for internet role play huh?

Yeah, PX… and, and, and, I bet you’re not even a cartoon, either!… and, and, clearly, “X” is not even a letter in the alphabet!!

You been pwn3d!!!111[/quote]

that kid is wearing chucks. Special Olympics powerlifting?

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[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

I train three days a week, what exactly is wrong with that?[/quote]

You tell me. Post some pictures of yourself so we can see how that is working for you.

It was stated very recently in a different thread that most of the people who would actually pass for any sort of “bodybuilder” or even larger football player spend in excess of 4 hours a week in the gym. It was an observation. Where do you fall within that?

I think most of the people even looking to only train 3 days a week aren’t putting enough into this to make th best progress. You, on the other hand, may personally push yourself harder. That has yet to be seen.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:

I train three days a week, what exactly is wrong with that?

You tell me. Post some pictures of yourself so we can see how that is working for you.

It was stated very recently in a different thread that most of the people who would actually pass for any sort of “bodybuilder” or even larger football player spend in excess of 4 hours a week in the gym. It was an observation. Where do you fall within that?

I think most of the people even looking to only train 3 days a week aren’t putting enough into this to make th best progress. You, on the other hand, may personally push yourself harder. That has yet to be seen.[/quote]

I’m not lean enough to want to post new pictures. I will however be taking and posting progress shots after I finish my last meet, in February I believe.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/zepheads_log

every weight I’ve lifted in almost a year in there. You can look at the first page or two and the last page or two and make your own conclusion.

edit:
my form sucked on the GHs in the beginning, I did them very wrong. more of a back extention.

The boxsquats in the beginning where with a wide stance, I use an oly stance now. You can use a LOT more weight with the sumo stance on box squats.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
spend in excess of 4 hours a week in the gym.

[/quote]

forgot to add this in the last post:

My sessions last ~ 75-90 minutes at a time. I’m usually a bit delerious at the end of a heavy session. I’ll sit in the locker room for a few minutes and walk out to my car and sit there for a few minutes and drink a protein shake.

On any given back or leg day I’m seeing silver or red spots on the walls after whatever squat/dl,row,leg press, whatever I’m doing that day. The information is in my log, you can decide if that meets your standards.

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Wait, I;m confused. What are we discussing again? the natty mr olympias ARE going to look great, sure. That don;t mean every local show out there is producing any quality physiques…

and what does showing a 5’7’ guy who COMPETES at 170-180 prove again?

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how does it matter if your workout meets his standards or not, zep?

The question is, are you seeing results from it, and are you satisfied with them?

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
spend in excess of 4 hours a week in the gym.

forgot to add this in the last post:

My sessions last ~ 75-90 minutes at a time. I’m usually a bit delerious at the end of a heavy session. I’ll sit in the locker room for a few minutes and walk out to my car and sit there for a few minutes and drink a protein shake.

On any given back or leg day I’m seeing silver or red spots on the walls after whatever squat/dl,row,leg press, whatever I’m doing that day. The information is in my log, you can decide if that meets your standards.[/quote]

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[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
Examples from the recent 2008 Natural Olympia in Ca. We need to remember that BB is a subjective sport. What appeals to one may not appeal to another. Also, many of us have areas that grow better/bigger than other areas. The point of BB is to be the best that ‘you’ can be.

The great part of BB, be it natural or otherwise is that no matter how short or tall, no matter what strength or weakness you may have to overcome, through dedication, consitency, diet and a sound program you can be better than you were before.

Each of these men look better than a high % of men walking around these days. That is unfortunate. So instead of saying things like, ‘well he has small pecs’ or ‘he isn’t as big as I think he should be’ etc…maybe we should give some credit and respect for them doing what many of us here haven’t.

Just a thought.[/quote]

agreed. cheaters are whack

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[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
how does it matter if your workout meets his standards or not, zep?

The question is, are you seeing results from it, and are you satisfied with them?

[/quote]

The ammount of time I’ve been lifting is far too short (2 years) to be truly satisfied with anything. I need more weight on the bar, and more mass everywhere.