[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Do you think that ranks up there with the systematic cover up of pedophile priests? I could pull up a few articles.
Or the new nazi pope. Sorry… member of the German army.
or how about women in islamic religion and honor killings?
Mormons… forced marriage.
Christian Scientists and denied medical treatment.
Convents who would not release women and forced them into slavery well into the 1960s and 70s.
so… atrocities happen when zealots are in charge. Zealots bad, those of sincere faith, good.
You are defending evil by claiming it is less than other evils?[/quote]
Zap… please don’t just pick and choose what I write.
I also state that I see that it seems I am defending Scientology when I am not. I was trying to express that I believe people have the right to make bad choices for themselves.
I wrote that what is done is unfortunately, in the world of religion and religious zealots, not that out of the ordinary.
maybe you only read the reply to your post?
My problem is that I am not emotionally involved in the faith that I am inadvertantly disparaging. I need to dial it back and will do so.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I can’t answer that question without somehow being wrong. I don’t date wimpy men. I appreciate a strong man.[/quote]
That’s all I’m saying. The man has to be the leader (masculine) in the relationship… and take charge. Whereas the woman has to be submissive (feminine) and follow the man’s lead.
Which is what i meant by the bible enforcing those roles. its not descriminating (most passages anyway)… its just differentiating.
[quote]
Calgacus, of whom the Roman historian Tacitus wrote saying that he was a great warrior descended from “an ancient line of kings”, united the tribes of Scotland to form a defense against the threat of the Roman advance. He fought several battles against the Romans but was ultimately defeated and probably killed in the Battle of Mons Graupius in AD83. The successors of Calgac[us], the first [New Iron Age] King of Albany, descended in the female-line from his sisters, whose mother was a female-line descendant of the sister of Credne, the first [Late Iron Age] King of Scone, whose mother was a female-line descendant of the sister of Tarvos, the first [Middle Iron Age] King of Tara, whose mother was a female-line descendant of the sister of Cruach, the first [Old Iron Age] King of Aberffraw, whose mother was the sister of Ogmios, the last Bronze Age King of Britain, whose mother was a female-line descendant of Andate, the sister-wife of Ampher, who was Britain?s first [Bronze Age] king, according to Plato, the Greek classic, who wrote that Ampher and his sister-wife Andate were the son and daughter of the sea-god Poseidon [equivalent to the Roman deity Neptune] and the mortal-woman Cleito [equivalent to the Roman deity Britannia, the island-goddess of Britain].
That’s just Scotland. Egypt, Native American, Judaic and Mongolian just to name a few are also cultures in which they follow the female descendant.[/quote]
Thanks for the starting point. This looks like its worth reading.
[quote]
and Christianity began as a cult. Religions evolve, new ones are created, some just go away.[/quote]
christianity was never started as a corporate pyramid scheme. They only took the face of a religion when they realized the government was motitoring their activities. That and tax exemption.
As well they could squeal “we have a freedom of religion!!” and “freedom of speech!!” and perople would listen. This is not the case anymore as governments worldwide are cracking down on their illegal activities.
Narconon is a branch of the corporate venture that is scientology. They have been scamming thousands of people worldwide through their “drug rehabilitation” treatment. They claim 70% sucess rate wneh in reality its more like 0%. They have been sued by the Greek government only to flee to other countries to avoid capture. those detained have been sentenced to lengthy sentences of fraud after the public outcry. They scammed millions.
So don’t tell me “its a religion”. Its not. Do your own research. I did.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Do you think that ranks up there with the systematic cover up of pedophile priests? I could pull up a few articles.
Or the new nazi pope. Sorry… member of the German army.
or how about women in islamic religion and honor killings?
Mormons… forced marriage.
Christian Scientists and denied medical treatment.
Convents who would not release women and forced them into slavery well into the 1960s and 70s.
so… atrocities happen when zealots are in charge. Zealots bad, those of sincere faith, good.
You are defending evil by claiming it is less than other evils?
Zap… please don’t just pick and choose what I write.
[/quote]
I thought I quoted everything you wrote.
Does that right also apply to fraud? People have the right to be lied to and ripped off?
All religions have their problems. Scientology is such a blatant scam I cannot even consider it a “real” religion. It is possible the other religions of the world are scams too, however Scientology is even more well documented as a fraudulent religion.
[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I can’t answer that question without somehow being wrong. I don’t date wimpy men. I appreciate a strong man.
That’s all I’m saying. The man has to be the leader (masculine) in the relationship… and take charge. Whereas the woman has to be submissive (feminine) and follow the man’s lead.
Which is what i meant by the bible enforcing those roles. its not descriminating (most passages anyway)… its just differentiating.
Calgacus, of whom the Roman historian Tacitus wrote saying that he was a great warrior descended from “an ancient line of kings”, united the tribes of Scotland to form a defense against the threat of the Roman advance. He fought several battles against the Romans but was ultimately defeated and probably killed in the Battle of Mons Graupius in AD83. The successors of Calgac[us], the first [New Iron Age] King of Albany, descended in the female-line from his sisters, whose mother was a female-line descendant of the sister of Credne, the first [Late Iron Age] King of Scone, whose mother was a female-line descendant of the sister of Tarvos, the first [Middle Iron Age] King of Tara, whose mother was a female-line descendant of the sister of Cruach, the first [Old Iron Age] King of Aberffraw, whose mother was the sister of Ogmios, the last Bronze Age King of Britain, whose mother was a female-line descendant of Andate, the sister-wife of Ampher, who was Britain?s first [Bronze Age] king, according to Plato, the Greek classic, who wrote that Ampher and his sister-wife Andate were the son and daughter of the sea-god Poseidon [equivalent to the Roman deity Neptune] and the mortal-woman Cleito [equivalent to the Roman deity Britannia, the island-goddess of Britain].
That’s just Scotland. Egypt, Native American, Judaic and Mongolian just to name a few are also cultures in which they follow the female descendant.
Thanks for the starting point. This looks like its worth reading.
and Christianity began as a cult. Religions evolve, new ones are created, some just go away.
christianity was never started as a corporate pyramid scheme. They only took the face of a religion when they realized the government was motitoring their activities. That and tax exemption.
As well they could squeal “we have a freedom of religion!!” and “freedom of speech!!” and perople would listen. This is not the case anymore as governments worldwide are cracking down on their illegal activities.
Narconon is a branch of the corporate venture that is scientology. They have been scamming thousands of people worldwide through their “drug rehabilitation” treatment. They claim 70% sucess rate wneh in reality its more like 0%. They have been sued by the Greek government only to flee to other countries to avoid capture. those detained have been sentenced to lengthy sentences of fraud after the public outcry. They scammed millions.
So don’t tell me “its a religion”. Its not. Do your own research. I did.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Do you think that ranks up there with the systematic cover up of pedophile priests? I could pull up a few articles.
Or the new nazi pope. Sorry… member of the German army.
or how about women in islamic religion and honor killings?
Mormons… forced marriage.
Christian Scientists and denied medical treatment.
Convents who would not release women and forced them into slavery well into the 1960s and 70s.
so… atrocities happen when zealots are in charge. Zealots bad, those of sincere faith, good.
You are defending evil by claiming it is less than other evils?
Zap… please don’t just pick and choose what I write.
I thought I quoted everything you wrote.[/quote]
You did quote everything in that post. I should have been clearer in that I had already stated that it was not good form of me to disparage other religions in this discussion.
[quote]I also state that I see that it seems I am defending Scientology when I am not. I was trying to express that I believe people have the right to make bad choices for themselves.
Does that right also apply to fraud? People have the right to be lied to and ripped off?[/quote]
Are you saying no christian, catholic, islamic, judaic, or bhuddist organization has ever committed fraud?
{quote}I wrote that what is done is unfortunately, in the world of religion and religious zealots, not that out of the ordinary.
All religions have their problems. Scientology is such a blatant scam I cannot even consider it a “real” religion. It is possible the other religions of the world are scams too, however Scientology is even more well documented as a fraudulent religion.
maybe you only read the reply to your post?
I have not read every word on this thread.
My problem is that I am not emotionally involved in the faith that I am inadvertantly disparaging. I need to dial it back and will do so.
[/quote]
It would be great if we could actually ask a Scientologist what they thought. If they find comfort and faith.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I am not subservient and I do not like the phrasing which is WHAT ancient texts meant and how it was enacted.[/quote]
Well then I don’t understand. What is your definition of a Strong Man?
[quote]
I’m done. I really do think I have stated my position. If I haven’t let me do so again.
Scientology is a choice.[/quote]
I thought your point was that Scientology is starting out now just like the ohet major religions worldwide…
And also; You have done nothing but bad mouth other religions like Christianity, Muslimism, and Judaism without your stating your direct views on Scientology. (other than saying its a choice).
What do YOU think of it? I don’t care how “evil” other religions seem to you. And how they compare. What is your personal opinion of Scientology?
And how long have you been a Scientologist?
People are not free to leave the “Church” of Scientology without fear of their lives.
[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I am not subservient and I do not like the phrasing which is WHAT ancient texts meant and how it was enacted.
Well then I don’t understand. What is your definition of a Strong Man?
I’m done. I really do think I have stated my position. If I haven’t let me do so again.
Scientology is a choice.
I thought your point was that Scientology is starting out now just like the ohet major religions worldwide…
And also; You have done nothing but bad mouth other religions like Christianity, Muslimism, and Judaism without your stating your direct views on Scientology. (other than saying its a choice).
What do YOU think of it? I don’t care how “evil” other religions seem to you. And how they compare. What is your personal opinion of Scientology?
And how long have you been a Scientologist?
People are free to make choices.
People are not free to leave the “Church” of Scientology without fear of their lives.[/quote]
Don’t call stating the truth bad mouthing. It has all been true. I haven’t spread rumors… I haven’t made up stories. I don’t care if you don’t like it. It is the truth. My only apologies are that some of those truths may hurt those of that faith. It doesn’t make my statements untrue.
I don’t have an opinion on Scientology. I don’t care about Scientology. As I stated, I am not sure why I am debating this issue. You may have missed that.
I never stated other religions are evil. Please do not put words in my mouth. I have said that no religion is without it’s darker side.
I am not a Scientologist. I do not follow organized religion of any kind.
And Zap… do you really believe that every worshipper of the faith of Scientology is unable to leave for fear of death?
[quote]Dweezil wrote:
ill wrote:
I don’t see what makes any other belief system any better or worse for that matter, just because it has existed for a long time doesn’t mean anything. But then again it is necessary for all the irrational people who can’t think for themselves, who make statements that lead you to think that there would be complete anarchy if they didn’t go to Hell as a consequence. But hey bash away.
See, the reason I don’t put Scientology on a level with any other major religion is because I can’t think of any other religion that had the wife of the founder of the religion breaking into IRS offices to steal confidential documents in an attempt to re-gain tax exemption status, which is used in extensive public relations campaigns to try and support said religion as a bona fide religion.
I can’t think of too many major religions that are considered hostile cults in European countries. I can’t think of too many major religions that have been convicted in trial by jury of breaking breach of public trust laws (the reason I can’t think of too many is because it’s the only time it’s ever happened) for a conspiracy to infiltrate the government in Canada.
I can’t think of too many major religions that have been categorized as a cult in France’s National Assembly with the recommendation to prohibit all activities related to the church.
I can’t think of too many religions that Belgium refuses as a candidate for the status of organized religion in that country and I can’t think of too many religions that have 15 of the 16 states in Germany conducting regular surveillance upon them because of fears that they are essentially attempting to subvert the German government in Germany.
Then again, maybe my memory is just hazy. I think Muhammad and Jesus at one time hooked up and broke into Caesars Palace in Las Vegas in an attempt to cover up their use of extortion on former members of their religion. Buddha was driving the van. He was late, and Ghandi was running around in the street screaming “Where’s the fucking van!?” It’s all coming back to me, Scientology is definitely on the level with Christianity and Islam now.[/quote]
Scientolgy is a scam. The whole reason it was made was to make money. No other major religion forces you to pay, the recomend it but dont require you to pay 2 thousand dollars just to move your theaton lvls up.
Just because the pope was in the german army doesnt make him a racist ever hear of the draft?
Sure the Catholic branch has been hit hard these past 10 years but there starting to take care of it.
P.s. Im a Protestant
P.s.s. the southpark episode has been on many times.
Celibrities and idiots from the liberal left will jump your ass for ‘persecuting’ Tom and his ilk if you utter a negative or ‘discriminatory’ word about his religion. They’ll cry ‘religious persecution, HERE, in the United States!’ Heard it a million times. Then they’ll turn around and attack the mythical ‘Christian Right’.
I cannot help but find CONSTANT entertainment in the silliness of liberals. Thank you all.
And Zap… do you really believe that every worshipper of the faith of Scientology is unable to leave for fear of death?
[/quote]
No. I think that is a rare occurence. They are blackmailed using the info they reveal in the audits far more often than they are threatened physically.
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Dweezil wrote:
ill wrote:
I don’t see what makes any other belief system any better or worse for that matter, just because it has existed for a long time doesn’t mean anything. But then again it is necessary for all the irrational people who can’t think for themselves, who make statements that lead you to think that there would be complete anarchy if they didn’t go to Hell as a consequence. But hey bash away.
See, the reason I don’t put Scientology on a level with any other major religion is because I can’t think of any other religion that had the wife of the founder of the religion breaking into IRS offices to steal confidential documents in an attempt to re-gain tax exemption status, which is used in extensive public relations campaigns to try and support said religion as a bona fide religion.
I can’t think of too many major religions that are considered hostile cults in European countries. I can’t think of too many major religions that have been convicted in trial by jury of breaking breach of public trust laws (the reason I can’t think of too many is because it’s the only time it’s ever happened) for a conspiracy to infiltrate the government in Canada.
I can’t think of too many major religions that have been categorized as a cult in France’s National Assembly with the recommendation to prohibit all activities related to the church.
I can’t think of too many religions that Belgium refuses as a candidate for the status of organized religion in that country and I can’t think of too many religions that have 15 of the 16 states in Germany conducting regular surveillance upon them because of fears that they are essentially attempting to subvert the German government in Germany.
Then again, maybe my memory is just hazy. I think Muhammad and Jesus at one time hooked up and broke into Caesars Palace in Las Vegas in an attempt to cover up their use of extortion on former members of their religion. Buddha was driving the van. He was late, and Ghandi was running around in the street screaming “Where’s the fucking van!?” It’s all coming back to me, Scientology is definitely on the level with Christianity and Islam now.
Dude. You just described the freemasons.[/quote]
Aaaahhh Barney EXACTLY but now you will be accused of being a Scientologist.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
Dweezil wrote:
ill wrote:
I don’t see what makes any other belief system any better or worse for that matter, just because it has existed for a long time doesn’t mean anything. But then again it is necessary for all the irrational people who can’t think for themselves, who make statements that lead you to think that there would be complete anarchy if they didn’t go to Hell as a consequence. But hey bash away.
See, the reason I don’t put Scientology on a level with any other major religion is because I can’t think of any other religion that had the wife of the founder of the religion breaking into IRS offices to steal confidential documents in an attempt to re-gain tax exemption status, which is used in extensive public relations campaigns to try and support said religion as a bona fide religion.
I can’t think of too many major religions that are considered hostile cults in European countries. I can’t think of too many major religions that have been convicted in trial by jury of breaking breach of public trust laws (the reason I can’t think of too many is because it’s the only time it’s ever happened) for a conspiracy to infiltrate the government in Canada.
I can’t think of too many major religions that have been categorized as a cult in France’s National Assembly with the recommendation to prohibit all activities related to the church.
I can’t think of too many religions that Belgium refuses as a candidate for the status of organized religion in that country and I can’t think of too many religions that have 15 of the 16 states in Germany conducting regular surveillance upon them because of fears that they are essentially attempting to subvert the German government in Germany.
Then again, maybe my memory is just hazy. I think Muhammad and Jesus at one time hooked up and broke into Caesars Palace in Las Vegas in an attempt to cover up their use of extortion on former members of their religion. Buddha was driving the van. He was late, and Ghandi was running around in the street screaming “Where’s the fucking van!?” It’s all coming back to me, Scientology is definitely on the level with Christianity and Islam now.
Dude. You just described the freemasons.
Aaaahhh Barney EXACTLY but now you will be accused of being a Scientologist.
[/quote]
Doubtful. I actually hope to join the Freemasons one day
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
brucevangeorge wrote:
pookie wrote:
You should try reading it some time… The Bible clearly states that a woman is subservient to the man.
Yes. That’s the way it always was. For the past… 20,000 years. Give or take a couple of thousand.
Where is your argument?
Because that is how it was doesn’t mean that it wasn’t discriminating. Don’t you see that?
And in ancient civilizations women were equal to men and in many societies the rulers had to descend from the line of the royal woman. This way they new the child really had the royal bloodline in them.
I’ve digressed again.
Also reading my posts… I really do seem to be defending Scientology. Don’t know why guess I just stick up for the underdog.
Freedom to choose means freedom not to choose also.
[/quote]
Please list all of the ancient civilizations where women were equal to men. I read quite a bit of history and I haven’t encountered one yet. But maybe I have missed one. Descent thru the female line does not necessarily equal equality.