Bringing Kids to Church

Off Topic
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I guess some of you are aware of my current situation, but if you aren’t I won’t go over it again here. All I’ll say is that certain things have happened to me lately, and I’ve been thinking quite a bit about religion as a consequence of these events.

One of the things I’ve been thinking about is people taking their kids to church. From the time they’re born, many children are taken to church every sunday.

I believe that one of the most important aspects of being a parent, is teaching your children to be individuals capable of thinking for themselves. Really thinking and understanding the processes and movements of the mind. I believe this will lead to a less fearful life, and a life without sheep-mentality and knee-jerk behavior.

Teaching children that there is only one single correct, very specific way of viewing the world, seems to me to be undermining the potential of every human being to be an individual, and also decreasing the likelyhood of raising a free-thinking person.

If one believes, like the mormons do, that we’re put here on earth to learn, then surely it would be beneficial not to limit ones thinking to the four restricting walls of your religion of choice?

American people are, I believe, more religious than people of my native country (Norway). Therefore, I raise this issue on T-Nation, where I know there are people of both great faith and great intelligence.

Thanks.

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[quote] whoami wrote:
Teaching children that there is only one single correct, very specific way of viewing the world, seems to me to be undermining the potential of every human being to be an individual, and also decreasing the likelyhood of raising a free-thinking person.

Oh, and mormons are hypocrites. [/quote]

Uh… yeah, narrowly defining the world to your children in terms of ‘us and them’ is a horrible thing to do, and is counterproductive towards teaching open-mindedness.

If you want to mormon-bash though… I think that’s inappropriate. There are good and bad people of every religion. Mormonism is no exception. I say this only because I get the feeling you’re singling them out because of your experience, and while I sympathize with you, I in no way agree with your resentment.

As far as the comment [quote]surely it would be beneficial not to limit ones thinking to the four restricting walls of your religion of choice?[/quote] … I’m really not sure where to begin. All men of faith have courage. Faith and religion promote virtues and moral conduct in their followers. Why decry a good thing? How is this wrong?

What you’re seeming to rail against is intolerance. Actually, what you’re seeming to rail against is Mormonism under the guise of intolerance. I agree with the fight against intolerance. I disagree that religions teach intolerance.

Instead, I see religions and religious organizations actively helping the needy and growing communities of spiritually-minded individuals.

Then again, I’m not seeing a picture of my ex-wife with a Mormon priest. Go figure.

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Heey, you rascal! I did not write that mormons are hypocrites. Let the record show that indisputable fact :slight_smile:

I do not resent mormons or mormonism in general. I do believe that all organized religion may potentially limit free thinking and smother creativity, but I certainly will not judge the merits of a whole religion based on the actions of one individual.

I don’t see how my post could be seen as ‘mormon bashing’. The only reason why I even mentioned mormonism, is because I have heard first hand from many mormons that they believe we’re put here on earth to learn. Nothing wrong with that.

Anywhoo…I don’t hate mormons. Back to the issue at hand.

I have no problem with moral behavior, and I did not imply such a thing anywhere in my post. Are there not people of great moral fibre in the world, who are not religious? Of course there are.

Certainly one could say that religion have been used to promote great intolerance and unimaginable human suffering in the world through thousands of years. But, really, I digress. The issue I wanted to raise, was bringing kids to church. Is it beneficial for the parent who wishes to raise an individual, really capable of deep and limitless thought, to expose the child to the clear-cut values of any religion?

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[quote]whoami wrote:
Is it beneficial for the parent who wishes to raise an individual, really capable of deep and limitless thought, to expose the child to the clear-cut values of any religion?[/quote]

In the roman catholic church that I went to growing up we were taught to question our religion and to take things with a grain of salt in the Bible, as it is for teaching moral lessons and not meant to be used as a history book.

Now I would say that is encouraging free thought and it is very beneficial to the child to teach it some morality, something the world seems to be lacking today. However it is really dependant upon the preacher and the Sunday school teacher, so you need to find a Church with good people behind it and not one with religous fanatics.

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my opinion,and my simple answer to your question is NO.

you can not raise a child and say,ok think what you want and beleive what you want,but then show them tha tyour religion is the right way or the only way.

its kind of do as I say and not as I do because you beleive that you should go to church and there is nothing wrong with that its great for you.

your child will see you going and will also go and basicly have instilled the values of that church and only that church.

I would say you beleive whatever you want thats great everyone has to beleive something.but dont expose them to it yet,wait untill they are old enough to ask there own questions and have there own doubts,everyone does at one point or another. then expose them to the world as a whole and not only through that one buildings doors.

My example is I am what they call a spiritual deist.

I DO NOT beleive in organised religion at all I beleive that the bible and other books like it were written by people to force beleifs and values that they wanted their people to follow and not the ultimate word of god.

however I beleive theres something higher and more important than us and a person can beleive and worship it anyway they wish to,because it is there free thinking that gives them comfort. I support everyone and everything except the radicals that try and force feed their beleif system on people.

My daughters mother on the other hand is catholic and hispanic at that.
she didnt agree with what I thought and wanted my daughter to grow up more like her and follow and obey and alot less like me a free thinker. so she ran off and i never seen them again.
releigion is a powerfull thought process and really need to be carefull because children will trust and beleive whatever you teach them.

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I say everyone should pick their own religion. Any parent who tries to force religion on their kid should be castrated.

Joe84, the way you’ve learnt about your religion seems to be the ideal way.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:
I say everyone should pick their own religion. Any parent who tries to force religion on their kid should be castrated.

Joe84, the way you’ve learnt about your religion seems to be the ideal way.[/quote]

Ya I guess, people seem to think it’s pretty uncommon and that all Catholics are Bible thumpers though. I don’t really get where the viewpoint comes from, most of the ones I know are the opposite.

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[quote]Joe84 wrote:
Makavali wrote:
I say everyone should pick their own religion. Any parent who tries to force religion on their kid should be castrated.

Joe84, the way you’ve learnt about your religion seems to be the ideal way.

Ya I guess, people seem to think it’s pretty uncommon and that all Catholics are Bible thumpers though. I don’t really get where the viewpoint comes from, most of the ones I know are the opposite.

[/quote]

My mormon wife always had a lot of negative things to say about catholics. How it’s a religion based on fear, not love etc. She also couldn’t stand how catholics always show the cross.

I guess it goes back to the old Bill Hicks thing about Jesus not wanting to come back when everyone’s wearing the crosses :slight_smile:

I am in NO way saying that mormons in general think like this. I do not know anything about catholics. Joe, maybe you could enlighten me. Is the catholic religion in any way based on fear in your opinion?

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If you truly believe in your religion, then it follows that you should also truly believe that indoctrinating your kids into your religion is the most important thing that you can do for them.

In Christian terms, placing “thinking for yourself” ahead of religious indoctrination is essentially equivalent to putting worldly concerns ahead of devotion to Christ.

So, it sounds to me like you’re not a true believer, and that you’re just turning to religion out of some kind of desperation. Which you’ll most likely get over as soon as whatever you’re going through sinks in.

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[quote]whoami wrote:
I do not resent mormons or mormonism in general. I do believe that all organized religion may potentially limit free thinking and smother creativity, but I certainly will not judge the merits of a whole religion based on the actions of one individual.
I don’t see how my post could be seen as ‘mormon bashing’.

The only reason why I even mentioned mormonism, is because I have heard first hand from many mormons that they believe we’re put here on earth to learn. Nothing wrong with that.[/quote]

It seemed pretty conspicuous to drop from the broad topic of religion to the ‘for example: Mormanism’, but if you insist this was innocent, I guess I can take that at face value.

[quote]Anywhoo…I don’t hate mormons. Back to the issue at hand.

The issue I wanted to raise, was bringing kids to church. Is it beneficial for the parent who wishes to raise an individual, really capable of deep and limitless thought, to expose the child to the clear-cut values of any religion?[/quote]

I think that this is an incredibly broad topic, but also a good one for discussion.

Kids do best with good parents, and a good environment. I think religious education is an intrinsic part of a good environment. If nothing else, it allows a model on which to develop questions that can only be answered with personal experience.

Examples:
Why do bad things happen to good people?
What happens when we’re dead?
What kind of God would create a world filled with suffering?

Having a religion gives you a framework to answer these questions. Or seek answers to them. Or decide the answers given don’t fit your experience, and decide to choose another.

When you get down to it, religion isn’t much more than an idea and a community. And if both of those are positive, neither could really hurt.

As far as them limiting the understanding of a young child, I think that has more to do with the example the childs parents set than their given religious experiences. If their parents always take something for granted, the kids probably will too. And vice versa.

A childs main role model is still their parents. I think that has more impact on their long-term mental health than anything else.

Oh, and mad props for being able to paraphrase Bill Hicks.

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[quote]whoami wrote:
Joe84 wrote:
Makavali wrote:
I say everyone should pick their own religion. Any parent who tries to force religion on their kid should be castrated.

Joe84, the way you’ve learnt about your religion seems to be the ideal way.

Ya I guess, people seem to think it’s pretty uncommon and that all Catholics are Bible thumpers though. I don’t really get where the viewpoint comes from, most of the ones I know are the opposite.

My mormon wife always had a lot of negative things to say about catholics. How it’s a religion based on fear, not love etc. She also couldn’t stand how catholics always show the cross. I guess it goes back to the old Bill Hicks thing about Jesus not wanting to come back when everyone’s wearing the crosses :slight_smile:

I am in NO way saying that mormons in general think like this. I do not know anything about catholics. Joe, maybe you could enlighten me. Is the catholic religion based on fear in your opinion?
[/quote]

The basic premise that we were taught was to “love your neighbour,” so basically treat everyone how you want to be treated. We wern’t ever taught any fear mongering stuff, in fact we were taught that God is very forgiving.

I don’t think any Catholic church preaches that you’re going to go straight to hell if you do this this or that, at least not in recent years, although that may have been the case in the past.

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[quote]Joe84 wrote:
The basic premise that we were taught was to “love your neighbour,” so basically treat everyone how you want to be treated. We wern’t ever taught any fear mongering stuff, in fact we were taught that God is very forgiving.

I don’t think any Catholic church preaches that you’re going to go straight to hell if you do this this or that, at least not in recent years, although that may have been the case in the past.
[/quote]

Sounds like the golden rule to me.

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I was born and raised Catholic. I’m an irish boy so I’m sure you can catch my drift. Religion is funny because as one person will believe something, someone else will always have their own beliefs and thoughts.
Taking children to church is a good thing in my opinion no matter the religion because it introduces morals into them in a higher fashion than any parent could.
Now like I said I was raised Catholic. Now as I have grown up I have changed my religion to Buddhism. Now I don’t fault or talk negatively about any religion whether it is something I grew up with or not.

If you look at it from a buddhist’s perspective, we are all humans first. All other descriptions and claims are second.

Overall keep an open mind and enjoy life. :slight_smile:

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imho… we’d all be dead if we didnt have religion… look how many people have an std lol…

higher sense of moral values…just because you want to screw everything in sight doesnt make you right to tell people their religion is stupid just fyi

Religion has many positive results and some negitive…only
because of bad or mislead people.

Bible says that no one is perfect or Christ wouldnt of bothered…and doubt\fear are always constant even when Jesus walked on water they had doubts even when he came back from the dead. ect. God forgives those who repent and will bring your sin as far as east is from west…(they never met they always go in opposite directions)

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[quote]Petermus wrote:
imho… we’d all be dead if we didnt have religion… look how many people have an std lol…[/quote]

Most of the people I know who get std’s are “religious”. Nobody said religion was bad, it’s the fact that religion is forced on people that’s bad.

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The basis for “moral” behavior(ie. what is considered acceptable conduct) must not lie in the context of religion.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:
Petermus wrote:
imho… we’d all be dead if we didnt have religion… look how many people have an std lol…

Most of the people I know who get std’s are “religious”. Nobody said religion was bad, it’s the fact that religion is forced on people that’s bad.[/quote]

how is it bad to be ‘forced’ to fit in with your community. If everyone you know is a certain religion growing up, as well as all your relatives your saying that you should force the kid to not fit in. This is how we end up with agnostic emo/antisocial teens who are idiots.

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[quote]shizen wrote:
how is it bad to be ‘forced’ to fit in with your community. If everyone you know is a certain religion growing up, as well as all your relatives your saying that you should force the kid to not fit in. This is how we end up with agnostic emo/antisocial teens who are idiots. [/quote]

Most of them rebel. My parents never forced religion on me, I was allowed to make my own decision. And AFAIK, I’m not an emo.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:
shizen wrote:
how is it bad to be ‘forced’ to fit in with your community. If everyone you know is a certain religion growing up, as well as all your relatives your saying that you should force the kid to not fit in. This is how we end up with agnostic emo/antisocial teens who are idiots.

Most of them rebel. My parents never forced religion on me, I was allowed to make my own decision. And AFAIK, I’m not an emo.[/quote]

Parents who have the idea of ‘do whatever you want’ have kids who rebel since they have no order. You sound just like the above description of what I was talking about.

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[quote]shizen wrote:
Parents who have the idea of ‘do whatever you want’ have kids who rebel since they have no order. You sound just like the above description of what I was talking about. [/quote]

How so?