Schiavo's Autopsy Results

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

All of you libs who took the usual stab at the right wing crack pot prototype have obviously never read that nifty little piece by Schviavo’s lawyer. Talk about a freakin’ loon, and then you read his resume, and wonder why he got the job in the first place? And how was he paid- with the money spent from her rehab fund. Smells like roses- all of it.

And then there are the lib judges, whose motto is we make this shit up as we go along. Usually, a husband’s rights don’t mean shit, unless of course he wants to have the woman he is legally married to done in while he is living with another woman and their kids together. Or, for that matter, if he lives in a communist dictatorship and the boss wants to use him for propaganda purposes. Then the feds will enforce them with gusto.

They could have easily said that since the man had done his duty and had other obvious priorities, and the person in question had blood relatives willing to bear the burden, custody goes to the mother. But no, lets choose death by dehydration instead. Fucking brilliant. I hope that all of libs are in possession of sufficient units of utility for those around you to justify your life in a dicy situation. I hope you won’t feel the effects of dehydration if they decide that you don’t need morphine. I hope that if you marry some chick and then drop a barbell on your head and are out of it for a while but no one really knows for sure that she doesn’t decide to have you dehydrated to death while getting nailed and having some other guy’s dick in her mouth. Don’t worry, though, she’ll make sure that you get your Tylenol. Of course, being libs, and therefore better, and special and all, it won’t happen to you.

And you can save yourself the BS about never having been anywhere near there. On the instructions of the hospice nurse, I loaded up my father on morphine during his last few days of brain cancer and watched as he took his last breath.

So what if she was a veg. She had people willing to care for her, and wasn’t about to expire on her own anytime soon. The fact that the legal system abetted in her demise speaks volumes. They could have made shit up on the side of life and instead choose to have her killed. Fuck them.

And enough with the expressed wish crap. Your hero didn’t come up with that line until way late in the game.

22

[quote]schrauper wrote:
So what if she was a veg. She had people willing to care for her, and wasn’t about to expire on her own anytime soon[/quote]

Her wishes were otherwise. Anybody who, in her situation, would rather be kept on as a little brainless mushroom by mummy and daddy can just make out a living will to that effect. No problem.

You’ve made out your own living will, I assume.

23

This is an indication of what happens when you sue the good doctors out of a state.

This should have been a non-issue. It should have never taken on these proportions.

Ideally, the physician would have known the patient’s wishes. The husband would have seconded. She should have been allowed to pass peacefully MANY years ago.

By the way, assisted suicide SHOULD NOT be a function of physicians. It is in direct opposition to their oath.
Further, “above all do no harm.”

If you want a seperate branch that a physician in conjunction with their family can call, then that is another issue.

Allowing a disease process to take someone’s life without interference is one thing. Activelly, ending a life is another.

Finally, shit-can the “George Bush’s religious fanatacism led him to get involved” bullshit.

Use your brain. First of all, I did not want him involved. However, he asked that a Federal judge look into this. I can see his perspective. Saying he promotes a culture of life without allowing a thorough review, wasn’t really an option.

Again, I hope people take this opportunity to speak to their physicians. Don’t let this happen to you and your family.

JeffR

24

I like this topic because it is not by any means straight down party lines. I for one, feel she should have been properly analized and then when her husband said she wishes to die, you a) give her a lethal injection, or b ) pump her full of so much drugs that if she can feel anything in the last week or so, it will at least be a cool trip.

One thing I don’t understand is why suicide is looked down on so much, or assisted suicide or whatever. I alone own my existance here on earth, if I want to end it and see whats next, who the fuck is anyone especially a government to tell me that I can’t move on? I understand that when you are dealing with kids, they might not fully understand the implications, but shit. For adults, make it legel, have counselors and at least get rid of some of the bullshit, people shooting themselves in a cornfield. And I can see why the government would want to keep healthy young people from killing themselves, hey thats tax dollars down the drain. But seriously, if I’m 80 friggin years old, my life sucks, I’m a burden to my family, a drain on the economy and I want to move on… why the hell shouldn’t I be able to have a nurse come in at night when I’m sleeping and put something in my IV and I just never wake up. Again, I’m not advocating any killing of any other person. But you can’t possibly argue with me, that you think you know whats best for me, including that I don’t deserve the right to take the only thing that I really and truly own.

V

25

I wonder if Bill Frist wants to take back his on the record quotes in the Senate about how he watched the videotapes of her for over an hour and that she was responding to visual stimuli?

I also find it interesting that Fox News chose not to run the coroners press conference live.

They couldn’t get enough of this story a few months ago…

26

[quote]Jim_Bobv2 wrote:
I wonder if Bill Frist wants to take back his on the record quotes in the Senate about how he watched the videotapes of her for over an hour and that she was responding to visual stimuli?

I also find it interesting that Fox News chose not to run the coroners press conference live.

They couldn’t get enough of this story a few months ago…[/quote]

I noticed the same. I am still waiting on many who claimed the husband was so evil to chime in. She was gone to the world and had no consciousness and no eye sight. Why would anyone in the position of being her husband be forced to go celibate for the rest of his life when she had the wish to die if ever in that condition? Once you are an adult and get married, your parents have no control over your life.

27

Jim_Bobv2 wrote:
I wonder if Bill Frist wants to take back his on the record quotes in the Senate about how he watched the videotapes of her for over an hour and that she was responding to visual stimuli?

I also find it interesting that Fox News chose not to run the coroners press conference live.

They couldn’t get enough of this story a few months ago…"

Thanks Jim!!! Great post!!!

Hillary in 2008 and Beyond!!!

JeffR

28

Look if I ever go braindead or am a vegetable, please pull the plug.

I know no one not ONE person who would ever say they would want to be kept alive in that situation.

They were keeping here alive artificially, if she was lying there, unable to move or open her eyes, would there ever have been ANY controversy about this case? No there wouldn’t have. Its only because she appeared to be alive. She wasn’t, it was the same as her lying there in a coma she would never come out of. The husband was in the right.

All you right wing people who think she should have lived, I just don’t understand, why? If you are a vegetable, braindead, will you want to be kept alive artificially?

29

I know I’d rather have my wife make those sorts of calls than my parents.

Although, both my parents are nurses, so I doubt they’d keep me around at that stage. Heck, I know my parents want the plug pulled in that situation because I’m my mom’s health care proxy and #2 on my dad’s list after my stepmom.

And they were clear on what they wanted long ago having worked for decades in the healthcare industry and seeing up close and personal too many people in PVS.

30

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
I still think that her body shouldn’t have had to die of dehydration. Lame. We should have morphine OD’d her after everybody had their chance to say their goodbyes.

They did give her large amounts of morphine once they pulled the tube as she dehydrated.

[u]Incorrect. She was given no opiates whatever, and none were found present in the samples taken at autopsy.[/u][/quote]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/

"Gibbs(David Gibbs, the Schindler family’s lawyer)also said Terri Schiavo is receiving morphine for pain. (Sunday, March 27, 2005 Posted: 9:53 PM EST (0253 GMT))

“Ms Weller (Shindler family Lawyer) said hospice workers had started giving Mrs Schiavo morphine to ease the pain brought on by her body’s failure.”

Fish in a barrel.

31

[quote]ZEB wrote:
They basically starved her to death. Death by dehydration…sad commentary on our country that something like this could happen in 2005.[/quote]

Do you not realize this happens every day in every hospital in this country? Its humane and it’s accepted ethically and legally.

I thought it was supposed to be a liberal trait, to act all emotional about an issue instead of analytically?

32

I hope all of you go out and get living wills and avoid this sort of debacle in your own futures. This whole mess never would have happened if she had one and this case should serve the purpose of teaching everyone to plan ahead for these awful circumstances and not to let families be torn apart by leaving these awful decisions to them.

33

It seems there will truly be no end to what the self-serving grandstanding political suck-asses will go to further their own self interest. Here’s the latest from “Hey, I want grow up to be president someday too, daddy” Jeb Bush: “Please go back in time 15 years and explain why, upon finding your wife collapsed and unresponsive, you may have misstated the time. I don’t think it’s really relevant, but I’ll do anything I can to fuck you over and make your life suck if I think it’ll get me a few more votes someday.”

Probe Sought in Terri Schiavo 911 Call

By JACKIE HALLIFAX, Associated Press Writer

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - Gov. Jeb Bush said Friday that a prosecutor has agreed to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, citing an alleged gap in time from when her husband found her and called 911.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, Bush said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m. on Feb. 25, 1990, and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

“Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay,” Bush wrote. “In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome.”

McCabe was out of state Friday and couldn’t immediately be reached for comment, but Bush said McCabe has agreed to his request.

Michael Schiavo’s attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment from The Associated Press. But on Wednesday he said his client didn’t wait to call for help. He said his client has conceded that he confuses dates and times.

Felos has said that if Michael Schiavo had not called 911 immediately, as Bush and others allege, Terri Schiavo would have died that day.

“There is no hour gap or other gap to the point Michael heard Terri fall and called 911,” Felos said. “We’ve seen the baseless allegations in this case fall by the wayside one by one … That’s what I would call it, a baseless claim to perpetuate a controversy that in fact doesn’t exist.”

Terri Schiavo died March 31 from dehydration after her feeding tube was disconnected at her husband’s request, despite unsuccessful efforts by her parents, Bush and others to keep her alive.

An autopsy released Wednesday concluded that she had been in a persistent vegetative state and revealed no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused before she collapsed.

It left unanswered the question of why Terri Schiavo’s heart stopped, cutting oxygen off from her brain. The autopsy showed she suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain had shrunk to half the normal size for her age.

Bush’s request was immediately criticized by some lawmakers.

“Enough is enough,” said Democratic Sen. Ron Klein. “I don’t want to see it on TV any more, I don’t want to hear politicians talk about it. Let her be at peace.”

Bush acknowledged in his letter that an investigation may be difficult.

“I understand that these events took place many years ago, and that you may not be able to collect all the relevant records and physical evidence. However, Mrs. Schiavo’s family deserves to know anything that can be done to determine the cause and circumstances of her collapse 15 years ago,” Bush wrote. “The unanswered questions may be unanswerable, but the attempt should be made.”

34

[quote]mark57 wrote:
…I’ll do anything I can to fuck you over and make your life suck if I think it’ll get me a few more votes someday…"
[/quote]

You got it!

35

[quote]Big Dave56 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
They basically starved her to death. Death by dehydration…sad commentary on our country that something like this could happen in 2005.

Do you not realize this happens every day in every hospital in this country? Its humane and it’s accepted ethically and legally.

I thought it was supposed to be a liberal trait, to act all emotional about an issue instead of analytically? [/quote]

Do you actually stereotype liberals as being all emotional? They don’t seem all that emotional when they preach abortion. Ripping a baby out of a mothers womb by tearing it’s head off. Seems sort of cold to me, how about you Big Dave?

If you think it’s appropriate to starve someone to death I honestly feel sorry for you, seriously. Even a condemned man is supposed to be given a quick death. A dog is even given a quick and painless death by injection. Do you see a problem here Big Dave?

I’m not here to debate who loved her more, or who had the right to act on her behalf. I simply condemn the way that she had to die. I repeat “sad commentary on our country.”

Are you with me on this Big Dave?

36

I think this case, tragic as it was, definitely hightened awareness for DNR patients.

We have a huge population of baby-boomers who will be outliving their idea of actual “life” and hopefully some, for the emotional stability of the rest of their family, have taken the proper steps to avoid an ugly situation reminiscent of the Schiavo case.

It was ugly man, way too ugly for me to choose a side. I stood on the sidelines not knowing who was right or who had the best intentions for the patient. One thing I know for sure, my parents, my brothers, and I have all discussed this matter at length even while the ruccus was going on. We are now clear of my parents intentions and I’m personally thankful that should we all as a family be placed in this sort of situation, the intentions of the dying are documented and will be honored.

GAINER

37

endgamer- As I understand it, the law in Florida states that the there must be clear and compelling evidence of her wishes in such a situation. The judge took a lone conversation recalled after eight years or so as such, and in the face of another recollection that contradicted it. On the basis of that “clear and compelling evidence” her doting husband gets to decide to dehydrate her to death. And again, have you read your Felos lately, especially the part where he, in his own words, damn near will the plane he is in to crash? Bone up on it.

Apparently living will aren’t all they are cracked up to be. In the end, we all have to take some chances and hope for the best.

38

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
endgamer711 wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
I still think that her body shouldn’t have had to die of dehydration. Lame. We should have morphine OD’d her after everybody had their chance to say their goodbyes.

They did give her large amounts of morphine once they pulled the tube as she dehydrated.

[u]Incorrect. She was given no opiates whatever, and none were found present in the samples taken at autopsy.[/u]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/

"Gibbs(David Gibbs, the Schindler family’s lawyer)also said Terri Schiavo is receiving morphine for pain. (Sunday, March 27, 2005 Posted: 9:53 PM EST (0253 GMT))

“Ms Weller (Shindler family Lawyer) said hospice workers had started giving Mrs Schiavo morphine to ease the pain brought on by her body’s failure.”

Fish in a barrel.[/quote]

The Schindlers and their attorney were full of shit. Read the autopsy report.

You believe everything you read in the papers, or just the stuff you find there that you want to believe?

39

[quote]schrauper wrote:
endgamer- As I understand it, the law in Florida states that the there must be clear and compelling evidence of her wishes in such a situation. The judge took a lone conversation recalled after eight years or so as such, and in the face of another recollection that contradicted it. On the basis of that “clear and compelling evidence” her doting husband gets to decide to dehydrate her to death. And again, have you read your Felos lately, especially the part where he, in his own words, damn near will the plane he is in to crash? Bone up on it.

Apparently living will aren’t all they are cracked up to be. In the end, we all have to take some chances and hope for the best.
[/quote]

I followed it rather closely thanks, and no that was not the only evidence considered.

I don’t need to read Mr. Felos’ writings, I don’t think ad hominem reasoning is at all helpful here. Mr. Felos didn’t make the decisions, and the jurists who did were all pretty reasonable fellows, and careful in their work.

40

[quote]JeffR wrote:
By the way, assisted suicide SHOULD NOT be a function of physicians. It is in direct opposition to their oath.
Further, “above all do no harm.”
JeffR[/quote]

So if your death is certain and imminent, where’s the harm in dying more comfortably as a whole person, rather than as a helpless laboratory preparation on a hospital bed?

Most physicians here in Oregon have no problem whatsoever with the assisted suicide law.

So far, it has never done anyone harm here.