Excommunicate a Nun Today!

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
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PHOENIX – A nun and administrator at a Catholic hospital in Phoenix has been reassigned and rebuked by the local bishop for agreeing that a severely ill woman needed an abortion to survive.

Sister Margaret McBride was on an ethics committee that included doctors that consulted with a young woman who was 11 weeks pregnant late last year, The Arizona Republic newspaper reported on its website Saturday. The woman was suffering from a life-threatening condition that likely would have caused her death if she hadn’t had the abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center.

Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted, head of the Phoenix Diocese, indicated in a statement that the Roman Catholic involved was “automatically excommunicated” because of the action. The Catholic Church allows the termination of a pregnancy only as a secondary effect of other treatments, such as radiation of a cancerous uterus.

This is the kind of stuff that turns me off to religion.

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It didn’t say she was absolutely going to die if she didn’t abort the pregnancy. If she had gone through with it there would at least have been a chance for both to survive. Unborn babies are still human. And abortion is just a fancy word for murder.

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Yep. Directly killing the child is never an option for us Catholics. Procedures that might save the mother’s life, which result in the child’s death can be permissable, actually. But the deliberate destruction of the human life? It’s an automatic excommunication. We don’t claim to be running a social club here.

4

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The woman was suffering from a life-threatening condition that likely would have caused her death if she hadn’t had the abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center.[/quote]

Seriously, to the two posters who replied, what the fuck is wrong with you?

5

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The woman was suffering from a life-threatening condition that likely would have caused her death if she hadn’t had the abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center.[/quote]

Seriously, to the two posters who replied, what the fuck is wrong with you?[/quote]

They hate women?

6

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The woman was suffering from a life-threatening condition that likely would have caused her death if she hadn’t had the abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center.[/quote]

Seriously, to the two posters who replied, what the fuck is wrong with you?[/quote]

What exactly is the problem?

Club states that activity X is unacceptable.
Member of the club promotes activity X.
Club states that the member is no longer qualified to talk on behalf of the club.

Believing that the 11 week old fetus is human is hardly an extreme viewpoint.

Believing it is immoral to kill one human to save another is not an extreme viewpoint either. Even if both humans will almost certainly die if nothing is done doesn’t make it right to kill a human.

Simply because you share a different viewpoint is no reason to act like an angsty teenager.

I don’t agree with the Catholic Church on this issue either. I would get my wife to have the abortion if her life was threatened. It would be a sad occasion but I feel it is the best choice.

Then again if it came down to a survival situation between us and I could either kill you or we would both die…well I would put a bullet in your head. And I wouldn’t feel as bad about it as I would if my wife had an abortion.

But I can understand why people would disagree with me and say instead we should both die. You seem to lack that understanding and can only view things in a simplistic way. Frankly it is lame because it means your posts aren’t worth reading. You should really add more depth to your responses. Consider my advice constructive criticism.

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This is a case where an individual need trumps the rules. Isn’t this what Jesus himself said, when he did healing on the Sabbath?

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[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The woman was suffering from a life-threatening condition that likely would have caused her death if she hadn’t had the abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center.[/quote]

Seriously, to the two posters who replied, what the fuck is wrong with you?[/quote]

We don’t deliberately exchange one life for another? Of course, you support abortion even outside of situations like this. So, I’m not really worried with what you, a guy who supports the taking of innocent human lives on a large scale just so we can feel ‘liberated’ to have more casual sex, might think.

9

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The woman was suffering from a life-threatening condition that likely would have caused her death if she hadn’t had the abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center.[/quote]

Seriously, to the two posters who replied, what the fuck is wrong with you?[/quote]

They hate women?[/quote]

I hates 'em! I r hate da womenz!

U mad bro?

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Why are people who don’t believe in Catholicism upset that someone is excommunicated? If the catholic church is in fact wrong, the punishment is a moot point.

They can kick anyone they want out of the church.

LGBT would kick me out for trying to change someones sexual preference. Is it fair for them to kick me out for a simple disagreement of beliefs?

Her being catholic means she believes in the stance of the church. She was, in this case, a bad catholic. She knew this when she did it.

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[quote]Headhunter wrote:
This is a case where an individual need trumps the rules. Isn’t this what Jesus himself said, when he did healing on the Sabbath?

[/quote]

I would say no. Jesus healing on the Sabbath was not against God’s rule, but it was against the Rules of the Elders. The Rules of the Elders was a set of Rules above and beyond the Laws given to the Hebrews from God. Basically it was a barrier put up so you would not come close to even breaking the Laws given to them by God.

Murder on the other hand is in the 10 commandments. We can argue all day whether aborting a fetus is murder or not, but that is what the Catholics beleive and most Christians beleive.

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I’ll join a church when I can find one that has just one rule: “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind,…”.

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I consider myself pro-choice. A woman can choose to have sex and get pregnant so she can choose to deal with the consequences. She knew she had a disorder. My wife has asthma and epilespy. It’s something we have to take into consideration if we choose have a child.

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[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I’ll join a church when I can find one that has just one rule: “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind,…”.[/quote]

(NIV) 1 John 5:3 “This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome”

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[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The woman was suffering from a life-threatening condition that likely would have caused her death if she hadn’t had the abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center.[/quote]

Seriously, to the two posters who replied, what the fuck is wrong with you?[/quote]

They hate women?[/quote]

I do not think that is the case, we take care of those that have no voice, that cannot defend themselves. How is having an invasive surgery to extract the baby, that will possibly allow the baby to live, a worse idea then an abortion?

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[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The woman was suffering from a life-threatening condition that likely would have caused her death if she hadn’t had the abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center.[/quote]

Seriously, to the two posters who replied, what the fuck is wrong with you?[/quote]

What exactly is the problem?

Club states that activity X is unacceptable.
Member of the club promotes activity X.
Club states that the member is no longer qualified to talk on behalf of the club.

Believing that the 11 week old fetus is human is hardly an extreme viewpoint.

Believing it is immoral to kill one human to save another is not an extreme viewpoint either. Even if both humans will almost certainly die if nothing is done doesn’t make it right to kill a human.

Simply because you share a different viewpoint is no reason to act like an angsty teenager.

I don’t agree with the Catholic Church on this issue either. I would get my wife to have the abortion if her life was threatened. It would be a sad occasion but I feel it is the best choice.

Then again if it came down to a survival situation between us and I could either kill you or we would both die…well I would put a bullet in your head. And I wouldn’t feel as bad about it as I would if my wife had an abortion.
[/quote]

That is not the situation at all that an abortion brings to the table, unless someone points a gun to your wife’s head and says if she does not have the abortion he’ll kill both the baby and mother. Then, if the latter situation was the case would it be like your scenario, it would be the same situation, and having the abortion would not be immoral.

[quote]
But I can understand why people would disagree with me and say instead we should both die. You seem to lack that understanding and can only view things in a simplistic way. Frankly it is lame because it means your posts aren’t worth reading. You should really add more depth to your responses. Consider my advice constructive criticism.[/quote]

The Catholic Church would not fault you or say your actions were immoral if you shot him in the head. You preserved life, even if it was your own. Now, if you shot him in the head when there was other options, then is when your actions to shot him in the head is immoral. I know it is tricky, but just look at how the Church determines something is immoral or not, and it’ll be easier to understand what I am talking about, and if you need any questions on this further, I’ll be glad to answer them.

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[quote]Headhunter wrote:
This is a case where an individual need trumps the rules. Isn’t this what Jesus himself said, when he did healing on the Sabbath?

[/quote]

He didn’t have to kill someone to heal on the Sabbath. Preservation of life.

18

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I’ll join a church when I can find one that has just one rule: “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind,…”.[/quote]

That is what every rule in the Catholic Church points to brother.

19

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I’ll join a church when I can find one that has just one rule: “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind,…”.[/quote]

So you’re gonna join the Unitarians, then…

20

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I’ll join a church when I can find one that has just one rule: “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind,…”.[/quote]

You forget the second comandment which is equal to the first. Love your neighbor as yourself.

The fetus is considered a neighbor.