Yeah, time is a problem on Fridays. I do some sets of leg presses when I have time. I feel that I push my pr sets hard enough on the squats though, I’m not sure doing more would be productive at this time right now. If anything, I’ve been feeling like I’m on the edge of doing too much.
If you go and look at my older training sessions, up to maybe two weeks ago, you’ll see I was actually doing 5x5 on the FSL. I recently dropped them to 3x5 because I’ve been feeling run-down.
Anyway, apart from being two reps short of my goal today, my squat has been going up and progressing really well.
What I really need some help with is my bench though.
As per the rows between Deadlifts, fine l’ll do them after the FSL sets. I only recently added the chins between bench sets. I can drop them if I feel that they’re holding me back.
@samul these are ass-kickers…I’ve done 93 kg x 20 at the end of a heavy squat workout. Come to think of it, I should get back to doing these. They build balls.
If you’re making progress then you’re doing something right. If you feel good but don’t have extra time to spare then I would suggest turning the last set into and AMRAP like I said but if you are low on energy then what you are doing isn’t terrible.
Back when I did 5/3/1 for a bit I was benching twice a week before that and making progress but I read Wendler’s stuff and was convinced that his program was better, I barely made any progress on bench the whole time.
If you want to bench more, first of all I would suggest benching twice a week. You could do close grip bench (just a couple inches in form your regular grip) as a 5/3/1 main lift and then do OHP after. I don’t really see the point in doing FSL 3x5 for overhead press since it’s not a competition lift (and I’m not aware of you trying to compete either) but a couple hard sets (like regular 5/3/1 AMRAP and then FSL AMRAP for one single set) will put some mass on your shoulders and should help your bench too.
The other thing with bench is that it seems to be the lift that has the strongest correlation with muscle mass, basically the easiest way to bring your bench up is to get a bigger upper body. I know you are pressed for time so you probably can’t do more work, but adding some bodybuilding exercises like flys and tricep extensions can help more than you might think. If you don’t have the time then don’t worry, but adding some assistance work would pay off.
I just got around to watching your last bench video, two technical adjustments that would pay off are arching more and using more leg drive. You have somewhat long arms so it’s going to make benching more difficult so arching more is the way to go. Improving thoracic mobility will allow your to arch more, what this girl is doing starting just after 1min. will help, I used to do this regularly and still do it sometimes. Just make sure you only do it on your t-spine, not your lumbar or you can end up with back pain.
I know there’s a lot of people who talk shit about benching with an arch, but none of those people have an impressive bench. If you don’t want to arch then don’t but it will limit how much you can bench. As for the fact that it will limit pec development, do assistance work.
The key here is to make gradual changes, your technique is decent so you don’t need a complete overhaul right away.
Yeah I’m not into competing, and I train for strength as a means to get more muscle, because at my stage increasing the weight I can lift in the main lifts seems like the most obvious way to get bigger.
The thing is, though, that I want to increase my military press just as much as my bench. Physique wise, my chest is actually decent, it’s my delts that I would really love to put some more size onto.
How would you go about this? Doing an FSLxamrap instead of 5x5 sounds like a good way, have any other suggestions?
As for benching twice a week, what if I keep the press my main exercise and do a supplemental bench program after the press FSL? Something like
Press 5/3/1
Press FSLxamrap
Bench BBS @ SSL
But maybe that’s too much volume?
I’m actually only pressed for time on Fridays, so I can add work on my upper body days.
Getting a bigger upper body is in and of itself kinda the goal already, so yeah it sounds like a good idea lol
Up to a couple of weeks ago I was doing 3x10 Incline db presses (it used to be 5x10 some months ago but lately I just got really tired of doing lots of sets. I’ve been gravitation instinctively towards a lower volume) as my bench assistance, plus I’m doing Dips on press day.
I could add a couple all out sets of Triceps extensions and side raises, how’s that sound?
If that’s the case then keep doing what you are doing, but it looks like you would be more successful picking one to focus on. Not that you can’t increase both, but it will just take longer and you might not get as far. That’s why powerlifters don’t focus so much on OHP and strongman competitors normally don’t do a lot of benching (other than incline).
If you really want a big OHP then maybe 5x5 to work on technique will pay off.
What exactly does that mean? I’m not familiar with some of the newer 5/3/1 things.
Probably not. Going by Paul Carter’s guidelines, if you have two pressing (BP/OHP) sessions a week and you aren’t doing over 10 hard sets (5x5 or 3x5 doesn’t count as hard sets) then it’s not too much. If you want to count sets then something like 70%x5x5 would be equivalent to 2-3 hard sets.
I’m not too sure that side raises actually do anything to make you stronger, but they can help keep your shoulders healthy and make them bigger. Dumbbell bench is good, on a flat bench will carry over to you bench a lot more and bigger pecs can’t hurt. Flys are good too.
I would just try to spread the workload over those two days so that you are doing a roughly equal amount of work for pecs, triceps, and shoulders on each day. Like day 1 - bench, dips, front raise, side raise. Day 2 - close grip bench, OHP, flys, tricep extension.
BBS - boring but strong - 10 sets of 5
SSL - second set last
Like I said, my goal is not to get a bigger ohp per se. My goal is to bring up all lifts to a decent (which means as high as I can get them anyway) level, so that then I can finally start training for “pure” hypertrophy, or with a strong focus on hypertrophy. So 5/3/1 BBB, building the monolith.
I want to start one of those program by September, so maybe my focus during the remaining 3-4 training cycles should be to increase my strength as much as I can to get ready for that.
Take my advice with plenty of salt, but as an outsider it seems like you two are talking at odds with each other. I believe Chris is giving advice in a way designed to increase the numbers you’re moving because, as a powerlifter, that is the goal. I believe Samul is purely looking to get bigger and stronger, in which case bigger numbers are a product, not the goal.
Yeah, that’s a lot of volume. If you are going to do something like that then it doesn’t leave much room for anything else. If you are going to do that after OHP then that’s a full workout right there, maybe some rows or chin ups and that’s it.
I don’t know what the 2nd one is, but BBB isn’t really ideal for hypertrophy because the weight is so light and you aren’t pushing close to failure. This is exactly what Paul Carter is talking about. You would gradually get bigger and you would build up some work capacity, but it’s not an efficient way of getting bigger and doing a couple hard sets would be better. Those hard sets can be on other exercises too.
I think if Paul Carter isn’t 100% right then he’s close to it. Maybe a few more sets than he recommends could be better, but too much will be worse. Even those “evidence-based” guys are saying you have to come within at least 3-4 reps from failure to get a significant hypertrophic stimulus, staying further from failure can be useful for working on technique and explosiveness but if you are just interested in hypertrophy and not competing in PL then it’s of limited use to you.
Look up on google “5/3/1 building the monolith”, the first result is the layout of the program on Jim’s website. It takes 5 minutes at most to read, but I can’t link it because of forums rules.
Another thing to consider, which is pretty much what @dagill2 is getting at, is that if your main goal is hypertrophy then maybe this isn’t the most direct approach. You could just do straight up bodybuilding-style training and every now and then have a month or two where you focus more on strength than hypertrophy, meaning less total volume and reps more in the range of 4-8 or so. That would give you a break from the high rep training, make you more responsive to high reps once again, and also you would be handling more weight since you got stronger.
My main objective is bigger muscles. The deal is, I trained for three years and I hadn’t gotten the results I wanted. That is when I figured out, on top of being small, how weak I was. And that is when I hopped onto 5/3/1.
So my goal with 5/3/1 is to get my lifts up, become stronger, but most importantly, become stronger as a means to get bigger.
It looks like a good program if the focus in on getting stronger, but it doesn’t look particularly good for hypertrophy. It’s mostly sets of 5 and again, not pushing close to failure.
I’m not saying that you won’t gain mass, I’m saying that it’s the least direct route to gaining mass. You will have to do 5 sets to accomplish what could be done with 1 or 2 if you go closer to failure. It’s good if you are simultaneously trying to improve technique in the competition lifts (although you start with very light weight) and improve work capacity, but I don’t think it’s the right program for your goals.
Well, it’s certainly not the worst choice you could make. I see getting stronger as a good thing one way or another. Just be careful you don’t turn into a powerlifter.
If all you want to do is get bigger, stronger, and physically fit then 5/3/1 is fine. It’s more of a “general strength” program, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It might take a bit longer to build muscle than a straight up bodybuilding approach, but you will get strong too.
You didn’t get good results working with Paul Carter or what?
I got terrific results on the fat loss side, but that was just a phase. I only worked with him on mass building for 8 weeks, which isn’t really long enough to judge.
I’m really thinking that I should find a way to incorporate the 5/3/1 strength program within a system that allows me to train for hypertrophy.
I saw a template a couple of months ago. You can probably find it in a second looking up “5/3/1 bodybuilding split.” It’s on Wendler’s website. What do you think of using the template in that article but modify it to fit Paul carter’s recommendations, so less sets but going to failure and possibly using rest pause on some exercises?
That sounds like a plan that would stay true to 5/3/1 principles while also using a hypertrophy focused approach