Timbo, completely agree. Sorry to continue with this but…
Elveneyes, planning X # of meals per day is not obsessive, but rather smart. Obsessive can sometimes be OBSESSIVE, not a misnomer from the lazy for the dedicated. Attitude and mentality are the differentiating factors. Believe, I should know. Again, I apologize for taking the thread in the wrong, unintended direction; I just wanted to comment on what someone said.
Maybe not mentally ill; but certainly overly obsessed.
elven: you had posted in a previous thread that, besided weights nearly 5-days a week; you’re also running or performing cardio twice a week. And you listed those days as your “rest” days and that your goal is to gain strength. That you have enough muscle already.
Keep in mind: a rest day is a day off. You maintain this schedule long enough and you will certainly be going in the opposite direction of your goal. You’ll be losing what LBM you have and the associated strength.
From my many years of livin’ this life: the one thing I noticed is that the people who are obsessive are also the ones “guilty” of the Yo-Yo theory: they’re so meticulous about diet/ they train daily (cardio or weights) for months on end: then they hit a plateau (which will happen, gaurantee) - and it’s over. Everything is out the window.
These people never seem to realize that there is more to all this than what they see in the mirror. It’s called living a life. I do this to enhance the quality of my life. And for me to do this; I need to have a life.
Okay…stepping down from soap box, so that this ain’t a complete hijack: I don’t believe entirely in cardio. I’m with Goldberg: sleg drags and sprints. I’ll also add, heavy bag (boxing), jump rope and anything else for HIIT. And along with Timbo: not on a DAILY basis.
While running does surpass machine cardio; HIIT surpasses running.
I have noticed exactly what you noticed Elveneyes. I did the elliptical machines for a bit and I wasn’t impressed with them. They actually hurt my knees, so I went back to the old running machine. I started to loose my excess ass and hips which was a great start for me. I now have two nicely shaped ass cheeks instead of looking like I had 3 
I run up to 25 miles a week.
The human body was made to run.
Cgb’s girl
if you have a pic of that nice ass please post it on the off topic “ass of the year thread”. thanks
Like most things in life, this topic seems to depend on the individual. I have tried the “diet should be sufficient, there’s little need for cardio” route - that failed miserably; I have done HIIT for extended periods of time - love to sprint and the brevity, hated the pulled groins and shin splints (and yes I stretch a lot); I have done cycling - more scenery, natural air conditioning, but time consuming, expensive, road rash, cars… When I come back to what works best for me considering simplicity, time cost, expense and results, jogging/running is vastly superior in helping me stay lean or get leaner. I rarely enjoy the actual running, but I always am glad after I am done for the benefits I gain from my efforts. Plus it is nice to be able to run with reasonable athletic form and ability when called upon whether it be a sports activity, playing with your kids or an emergency of some sort. Life happens, and running is a part of life. For me.
I agree with Goldberg. Nothing works better than a few sets of non-weighted GPP, rope work and some sled dragging (or other weighted GPP). The only other thing I’ve utilized is short sprints (60 yards or less). I’d rather do 10, 50-yard sprints than any jogging or running for any distance.
Of course, when the time comes to run for distance, I’ve found that the GPP and sprinting were far superior in getting me prepared and making the distance run feel easy.
If one goes to college and busts their ass for years so that they may get a good job and make lots of money (read: something they didn’t have before) their labelled as sucessful.
If one busts their ass in the gym and keeps a strict diet for years so that they may be strong, look good, etc (read: something they weren’t before) their labelled as having a disorder.
Double standards piss me off.
As far as fat loss is concerned though, my fellow formuites are correct: HIIT is a fat killer.
CT’s Running Man program rocks for fat loss. Still the most effective I’ve tried.
Akheron said, "[quote]If one goes to college and busts their ass for years so that they may get a good job and make lots of money (read: something they didn’t have before) their labelled as sucessful.
If one busts their ass in the gym and keeps a strict diet for years so that they may be strong, look good, etc (read: something they weren’t before) their labelled as having a disorder.
Double standards piss me off.[/quote]"
It depends who’s doing the labeling in the latter case. Sure, if it’s a lazy slob, you deserve to be pissed off. But if it’s one of your fellow T-Men or Women, then I think that you need to re-think your statement.
My point was that when one allows these thoughts and actions to completely encompass his/her entire life and be the central portion of his/her existence, a problem exists and needs to be attended to. However, one should avoid getting to that point at all costs.
Cycling. I love it. I’d venture a guess to say that 3-4 90 minute sessions a week (no matter the speed or distance) would do wonders for people who have stalled fat loss.
To be honest, I can’t agree more with everyone’s post.
It has been pointed out to me time and again that I am obsessive–indeed I am, and as Patsy points out, I do hit plateus, and I do burn out…this lasts anywhere from a day, to a week (but not longer yet). The point however, is that I accept this as part of me. I accept that I can only go at two speeds:
Stop and go. I usually go hard most of the time. It gets me ahead not only with academics and career, but with training and nutrition too.
There is also a huge difference in one other area:
There are some who stay naturally lean: for them, obsessiveness, by default, is not an issue.
If you have a predisposition towards insulin insensitivity, or one has a bigger frame, than the need for obsessiveness is more likely to happen. I tend to fall into the latter group, hence the need for a ridiculous amount of structure. I can’t thank people like Patsy, Timbo and others for their pointing out to me where I need to relax. I usually save those posts and re-read them during a time of burnout or what I perceive to be less than stringent eating (kashi, and other cereals en masse).
Vain
I do some intervals on my bike on a trainer stand and some meduim intensity cruising and it works well for me.
I’ve done some running. I used to do 2 miles in the 15 minute range, my best time was 14:40 but I really didn’t see much from that except the usual improvements in heart rate, blood pressure, and endurance. My BF didn’t change much.
A retired engineer told me this once, “Obsessive people are the ones that get things done.” I think he had a good point. I kind of look at it this way. A comedian had a bit about driving. He mentioned that most drivers think anyone driving slower than they are is an idiot and everyone driving faster is a maniac. Perspective is everything I guess. Those of us that care about our fitness level or physique probably do seem obsessive to those that eat whatever tastes good and make no effort to exercise.
I’m 44 and take the stairs two at time at a trot most of the time. I think nothing of running to get to my mailbox faster. My blood pressure is better than when I was 22 and I feel good just about all of the time. I might be more obsessive than the average, slow, fat 44 year old but I enjoy the benefits.
I’ll take obsessive over sedentary and all that comes with that any time.
I agree that I seem to enjoy running outside more than other forms of energy system work. Also, running and other outdoor type of activities seem to burn more calories per unit time than gym machines (sitting-laid back-on a bike?!?!?!). Even chopping wood or mowing a lawn or moving furniture can be “cardio” if done fast/intense enough. The way I move furniture at work beats any machine workout in the gym!
did Nate just say he wanted to do Goldbergs BUm too…???
what does the missus think of this Nate?
Agreed, HIIT is great for fat loss, but you’ve got to be very careful about losing leg size.
I think JB even made a similar comment in one of his picture posts, saying his leg size was down because he was doing a lot of sprinting.
A balance is best …
I tend to agree, nothing seems to get my heartrate up like running. Sprints of course also do. I also tend to get shin splints and so i don’t bother sprinting anymore. a light jog is all i can handle. but even this i don’t like to do a lot, for fear of losing muscle. I don’t have a sled to drag, LOL but it sure sounds like a miserably fun way to exercise. does jumping rope help keep/add lean mass while improving cardiac output?
For some serious fat burning, try rock climbing for 30 minutes or so. Low level traverses on a vertical to slightly overhanging wall can really work the entire body especially abs and back. And if your forearms aren’t used to it they’ll ache for about two days.
I think one reason that people sometimes end up talking past each other in threads like this is that they have different definitions of the goal of cardio/energy system work/whatever.
Is the goal purely fat loss? To support powerlifting or strength sports? To climb a mountain more easily? Each of these probably has a different optimum exercise type.
I don’t think the cardio-induced strength loss issue has to be the bugaboo that people think it is, if you have all your ducks in a row. Last winter I was able to increase both strength and LBM while simultaneously increasing my distance running to 35 miles a week. But I was hitting the gym 4 days a week, eating everything in sight, and sleeping 10 hours a night.
Now that various work and family issues are allowing me to sleep less and hit the gym only 2 days a week, my strength is dropping quickly as I keep the running at the same level.
That’s a good point. I just assumed that this thread was about cardio for fat-loss. It’s certainly seems that way on, with examples of good cardio being ones that make you more ripped.
At the moment I’m torn between the fat-loss and good cardio development as I would like to shed some stubborn pounds, but at the same time be in condition for a marathon I would like to run in October.