In my experience running kills quad mass.Cycling is far better,or a stationary trainer.Look at the quads on some of those track cyclists
jable
a 19:40 5k is super slow… average for most of the athletes out there but slow. its hard to be “good” ant both… impossible to be "great " at both…get under 15 minutes and you’re a good runner. under 14, your great… thats just the running part. sure you can do both. squat and run, but your times in running are only average at best. good in your mind, but compared to good and great runners, your average or below average.
nothing personal, but its too hard trying to combine both.you squat 2x bodyweight you’re good. 3x or better you’re great … at squatting. run a 15:00 5k and squat 2-3x bodyweight and you sir will be a good one. one of the few. just keep plugging away and keep getting your pr’s…
When I say not average I meant for people who primarily strength train. For somebody who specialises in running yes, it’s slow and by no means great hence why I don’t run track. For someone who squats double BW… I stand by that it is not slow.
I get what you’re saying though… You will never be elite or highly advanced in both fields, I agree. I was more getting at you don’t have to resign yourself to being an overweight slow squatter or a weedy racing snake.
Keep flogging a dead horse. It’s obvious you can’t be elite in both but the point of this thread is that you can squat some serious weight yet be better at the 5k than your average run for the fun of 5k’er. Especially if you already have a good squat before you start running.
[quote]sjhutc wrote:
I’ve found this to be a difficult pursuit (running and squatting well at the same time). I am a former semi-competitive elite triathlete. Once pulled out a 1hour 17minute half marathon, AFTER my 1.2 mile swim and 56mile bike (my only really great claim from those days, hah!) I have moved on from those days but i still like to run even though my focus is strength training now.
Basically i have found this to be true…if i run like i can, even if it is just 2-3 times a week, my squat goes no where. If i stop running squat immediately starts rising again. Strangely enough, the squatting doesn’t negatively effect my running but running definitely hurts my squatting. Everybody is unique though, so this is just how i have found i react to doing both.[/quote]
I have always found it this way round too, running effects squatting, but not vice versa unless leg soreness is too bad. OP, for your goals though it is certainly achievable, it just takes commitment to training, diet and recovery. It is only if you really want to make a huge step up in either running or squatting that doing both will hinder your goals, but it is certainly possible to get to a good level for both.
OP, the Royal Marines is a great force to join with regards to the squatting and running the short answer is yes. They are both possible, partially dependent on time frame too. Out of curiosity are you going for recruit or young officer? There is a saying in the Corps that goes, ‘go in a racing snake, come out a mule’ which means go in being zippy Gonzalez and you’ll leave training being able to yomp stupid distance with stupid loads.
Before joining focus on sprints. Lots of sprints. In training you’ll perform lots of ‘camp circuits’ during PT which are basically 800m all out sprints and you sprint everywhere in the gym too. Your PFT in a 1.5mile in 12mins and then 1.5 best effort, I see you have good aspirations for 7.30 which is definitely doable!
Other stuff you need to focus on are the BW tests. Pull ups, press ups, and sit ups. I can only assume you want some good scores on these too as you seem like a fella who would wanna max all the tests.
In addition to this you need to be good at buddy drags, fireman carries, rope climbs with your webbing, crawls etc which are all things you will do on Bottom Field and at PRMC/POC so do some work towards that too.
Looking at the physical requirements and your wish to squat a metric shit ton at the same time I would focus on:
Running 2-3x a week, include hill sprints from 50-200m, interval work of 100, 200, 400, and 800m which can be done balls out or at PFT pace etc, tempo runs up to 3 miles, and finally some steady runs no longer than 10k. This will build a very solid anaerobic and aerobic running base to take with you to CTC.
For the BW tests try to practice them 2-3x a week, definitely to both weighted and unweighted press ups and pull ups. You wouldn’t do other exercises with the same load all the time would you? Sit ups are pretty easy, get some volume in and make sure you don’t get too sloppy with form, the Royals are strict as fuck on their form, especially with pull ups and press ups.
For the other stuff I mentioned replicate buddy drags do reverse sled drags. For fireman carries utilize a variety of carries such as yoke walks, sandbag holds/hugs, and zercher carries. For rope climbs don’t fret if you do not have access to a rope, not many candidates do, rather focus on getting good at pull ups both loaded and BW. If you do have access to a rope try and practice the technique, I think they use the Spanish wrap since it is very secure. For crawls do animal walks in your warm ups and in circuit training, if you can do them in a weight vest too.
Since you want to have a strong squat too I would obviously squat too, something like 5/3/1 would perfect. It allows for constant progression and is low enough volume to not effect your other training. Bear in mind you will have to run too and with some volume/intensity so you don’t want to risk overuse injuries.
A sample program could look like:
Monday
Bench 5/3/1
Squat 5/3/1 (Don’t know if you want to be good at back or front?!)
Weighted push ups 3-5 x 6-10
Hip extensions, 3 x 12-15, you’ll need strong lower back and glutes for the loaded carrying and yomping.
Tuesday
Hill sprints or intervals. Keep the total work volume of intervals somewhere between 1k to 4k, intervals when done hard can really take it out of you. For hill sprints, measure a distance, sprint up, walk back and repeat. Just try to not die, hill sprints are fairly simple! Finish it off with some pull ups ladders, 3-5 ladders. Pavel Tsatouline loves 'em, they are great as they are sub maximal and allow you to get your max reps up really well. Throw in some high rep sets of sit ups.
Wednesday
Circuit training. Use some of the strongman exercises, BW exercises and short sprints or prowler sprints. Circuits are great and very popular with Royal Marines and you would be leaving something on the table if you didn’t do them once a week. You can get very creative here and there a millions of ways to plug the exercises together and you can do them timed, reps etc. Have some fun!
Thursday
Hill sprints or intervals again. Finish it with a press up circuit, keep it BW and practice some higher rep sets for the muscular endurance and there is no harm in mixing up grip etc. Do 'em wide, decline, diamond, normal. Get some volume in and stay just shy of failure. Do some more high rep sit ups, get used to a wee burn and nail the tempo and technique.
Friday
OHP 5/3/1
Deadlift 5/3/1
Weighted pull ups, 3-10 x 2-5, you could do 10x2, 3x5, 5x5
Do a couple of exercise you like or feel you’ve missed or alternatively you can do some reverse sled drags, yoke walks, farmer walks etc for some extra strength and conditioning.
Saturday
This could be a shortish tempo run, a longer run to build a bit of endurance, go for a long and gentle cycle or take a dip in the pool (don’t neglect the ability to swim, you are joining the Marines!) or if you are feeling super fucked after the week take a rest day.
Sunday
Rest day.
Sorry for the extra, extra long post! I tried to cover both your wish to run fast and squat heavy as well your desire to become a Royal. That’s just how’d I might do things, if you got any questions just PM or something.
[quote]spk wrote:
jable
a 19:40 5k is super slow… average for most of the athletes out there but slow. its hard to be “good” ant both… impossible to be "great " at both…get under 15 minutes and you’re a good runner. under 14, your great… thats just the running part. sure you can do both. squat and run, but your times in running are only average at best. good in your mind, but compared to good and great runners, your average or below average.
nothing personal, but its too hard trying to combine both.you squat 2x bodyweight you’re good. 3x or better you’re great … at squatting. run a 15:00 5k and squat 2-3x bodyweight and you sir will be a good one. one of the few. just keep plugging away and keep getting your pr’s… [/quote]
I think you need a bit of perspective here… a 19:50 5k would beat 85% of runners out there (and that is just counting the ones who actually enter races). It certainly isn’t “super slow”.
[quote]sjhutc wrote:
I’ve found this to be a difficult pursuit (running and squatting well at the same time). I am a former semi-competitive elite triathlete. Once pulled out a 1hour 17minute half marathon, AFTER my 1.2 mile swim and 56mile bike (my only really great claim from those days, hah!) I have moved on from those days but i still like to run even though my focus is strength training now.
Basically i have found this to be true…if i run like i can, even if it is just 2-3 times a week, my squat goes no where. If i stop running squat immediately starts rising again. Strangely enough, the squatting doesn’t negatively effect my running but running definitely hurts my squatting. Everybody is unique though, so this is just how i have found i react to doing both.[/quote]
I have just started more running recently, but found my squat to still be fairly similar to previously. How much running were you doing for your triathlon out of interest. I have a sprint one coming up in 6 weeks, but I don’t really want my lifts to fall.
In the year or so since I first posted in this thread I’m pretty disappointed in my squat progression and my run. My new squat is still 100lbs less than my old PL style one and my run isn’t doing anything. I think I’d have been better off cycling between both.
jrt6
cycling, as in bicycling? if so, that sport hurts the legs more than running in my opinion. i was a pretty good runner in my day, 4:03 miler, and currently race the pro level of cycling…cycling, really really hurts… up to you, squat or run or cycle, you try to do both, improvements wont come. IMO. good luck…
[quote]spk wrote:
cycling, as in bicycling?
[/quote]
I think he means changing the focus of his training in a cyclical method.
tweet
By cycling I mean focusing on one for a few weeks then focusing on the other.
I’ve backed off my squatting and in three weeks I’ve already cut a lot of time off my intervals, Hit my goal, a sub 10:00 1.5 mile, and I’ll go back to focusing on squatting and maintaining the run.
Hey guys. Heres something to wrap you heads around…
The Olympic 100/200meter Champion Michael Johnson used to take Squat racks out to the track with him and would do Three explosive reps (ala Westside) and then jump into the block and Explode into his 100 or 200 meter sprint. He would routinely and consistently do this.
The results speak for themselves.
Even for the 5 years that I was Meb Keflezighis training assistant, he would do squats and lunges during the off season and between the Boston and New York marathons. This was because he was also intelligent enough to know that he needed to keep his bones strong(er) as well as his musculature. At the age of 38 he is still relevent in races and can still run a 4:23 mile at 8000ft.
So yes, you can incorporate running into your Squat training (or vice versa). It just needs to be done in a manner that compliments and does not hinder what you are ultimately trying to achieve.
I usually can’t run for a couple days after squats. Recently started adding in sprints 2 days after living heavy legs, and continue until my next leg session. Seen massive gains in my squats since.
[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
Hey guys. Heres something to wrap you heads around…
The Olympic 100/200meter Champion Michael Johnson used to take Squat racks out to the track with him and would do Three explosive reps (ala Westside) and then jump into the block and Explode into his 100 or 200 meter sprint. He would routinely and consistently do this.
The results speak for themselves.
Even for the 5 years that I was Meb Keflezighis training assistant, he would do squats and lunges during the off season and between the Boston and New York marathons. This was because he was also intelligent enough to know that he needed to keep his bones strong(er) as well as his musculature. At the age of 38 he is still relevent in races and can still run a 4:23 mile at 8000ft.
So yes, you can incorporate running into your Squat training (or vice versa). It just needs to be done in a manner that compliments and does not hinder what you are ultimately trying to achieve.[/quote]
I’ve read that the Michael (and Ben) Johnson squat thing is urban legend and never actually happened.
The guy on the other thread who made his goal of a 6 mile run and a 600lb squat on the same day has inspired me to make a goal of a 500 lb squat and a sub 20min 5K. Not on the same day though but in the same week.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Long as your conditioned for it I believe you can do it. Remember whatever you do, there’s probably an NFL Safety, Navy Seal, or MMA champion doing more.[/quote]
This. When in doubt about workload… haha
I’ve been squatting once a week. Do sprints (HITT) 2x a week and run a 5k once a week (maybe more like once every ten days). Been doing this for about 3 months and I’ve seen big improvements in my time for the 5k.
Distance running is not going to improve your squat and squatting is not going to improve your distance running. That much is obvious. The way to solve this problem is to look for an exercise that has strong carryover to both events. The best I can come up with is a short sprint. 100 meter sprinters usually have pretty good squats and can definitely run. So I would follow a 100 meter sprint program. I don’t mean throwing in some sprints a few times week. I mean following an actual complete program designed by a sprint coach with the goal of improving your sprint time. The residual effect would be an improvement in both your squat and your distance running.
In my opinion that is your best bet, unless you can think of an activity that has better carryover to both squatting and distance running.