[quote]peterm533 wrote:
Rundymc,
I think that you make a very valid point about using traditional escapes in a MMA situation. Perhaps someone
has done a detailed analysis of the number of times the mount has been escaped and how it was achieved.
You may well be right that escape by turtling or giving upo the back is the most successful option but it may also lead to a high number of quick finishes.
I am not so sure that Tate had the strategy you suggest or indeed had any strategy other than escaping punches to the face. Rousey’s finish was OK but an absolutely standard juji gatame entry and finish that an international level judoka could perform in their sleep.
[/quote]
I think the most successful option is the hip-escape-to-halfguard method.
I agree on the Tate escaping punches thing. Either way, I don’t think the strategy (done right) is sound against a fighter like Ronda. Assuming, your opponent manages to stay square with your hips, the back is an awesome position to secure an armbar, lol, and I’m sure Ronda has worked on a finish from there. IMO it’s only slightly harder to get than side mount.
Maybe it’s cause I suck at attacking the arm from turtle, but I thought the setup on that armbar was great, hahah. It’s the whole rolling while keeping the arm tight I have trouble with. Most times I botch the roll and end up getting stacked.
When I was training Krav, there was this combo that we learnt for a while against pounding; explosive hip thrust, then guard down, grab attacker’s hips – actually grasp onto his flesh – rip him off you and toss him on the side, away from you. Some fighters tend to hip thrust in a way that their opponent lands over them and if their grappling is excellent they can then transition to any half guard technique. With the side throw though, if you’re shit at grappling, you actually get a few seconds to get back on your feet and resume with striking.
I’d noticed that in most MMA fights the guy/girl at the bottom is usually too gassed out or clueless to fight back or to think clearly about any escape that would put him/her in a more favourable position.
Despite her wrestling background, it was a shame to see Tate struggle. I still think she suffered from a big mental block. You can learn/train all those defence techniques and still manage to fuck yourself up in the cage when shit gets real.
OK I have a serious question here.
I see mention about Tate’s wrestling background and comparisons to Rousey’s Judo background.
What wrestling background?
She wrestled on boys team in high school. She won the Washington state title for girls in 2005. Which is certainly an accomplishment, but unless things have changed greatly I don’t think there is all that deep a talent pool for high school lady’s wrestling.
I see she has a silver from an international grappling competition, but that is it. In college she trained in the MMA club run by her boyfriend and now trains at Alpha Male (and Cyborg catches shit) with him.
I am not trying to run down her effort or accomplishments, but that does not stack up to Rousey’s Judo career. There is a history of women competing in Judo in this country and internationally. Rousey pretty much grew up doing Judo.
Are any of us surprised that an Olympic bronze medalist who grew up grappling showed better mat skills?
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Robert A wrote:
Are any of us surprised that an Olympic bronze medalist who grew up grappling showed better mat skills?
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
No. I’m not surprised.
I knew Meisha had no chance vs Rousey. However, I expected her to be a little bit more pro-active during the fight.
Now, It’d be interesting to see Rousey fighting another olympian, with a better wrestling background; Sarah McMann.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
I still think she suffered from a big mental block. You can learn/train all those defence techniques and still manage to fuck yourself up in the cage when shit gets real. [/quote]
I completely agree with you. I believe part of this is due to her support team and the marketing effort. When you have your ‘posse’ tell you all the time that a 4-0 does not deserve to be in the same cage as you, you are going to start believing it. Till you realize that the girl in front of you can take a hit, is brutally strong, has excellent skills (how in the name of GOD does anyone underestimate an Olymic level Judoka?) and doesn’t gas easily.
I guess they also forgot that Brock Lesnar beat the shit out of Couture after only 3 matches and became the heavy weight champ. A lot of people said then too, that Lesnar did not deserve a shot after only 3 matches. MMA fighting is still relatively young and championships change hands rapidly so it is best never to say about anyone they do not deserve to be there. Let your fists do the talking.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
I still think she suffered from a big mental block. You can learn/train all those defence techniques and still manage to fuck yourself up in the cage when shit gets real. [/quote]
I completely agree with you. I believe part of this is due to her support team and the marketing effort. When you have your ‘posse’ tell you all the time that a 4-0 does not deserve to be in the same cage as you, you are going to start believing it. Till you realize that the girl in front of you can take a hit, is brutally strong, has excellent skills (how in the name of GOD does anyone underestimate an Olymic level Judoka?) and doesn’t gas easily.
I guess they also forgot that Brock Lesnar beat the shit out of Couture after only 3 matches and became the heavy weight champ. A lot of people said then too, that Lesnar did not deserve a shot after only 3 matches. MMA fighting is still relatively young and championships change hands rapidly so it is best never to say about anyone they do not deserve to be there. Let your fists do the talking.[/quote]
well said.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
First, I was worried when you were silent for/after Vitale’s last fight.
Robert A[/quote]
haha, no, I decided to not post anything this time, just to give FightingIrish a break, anytime heavyweight boxing is mentioned, it induces a grand moll seizure in the poor wee lad.
Congrats to Ronda, that should silence everyone.
I definitely think that against someone who can actually box/stick and move, she’d look awful.
Yes, she’s the female Aoki, if she can hold onto you, you might have to switch from xbox action to pc strategy, since you’ll be playing one armed for the next eight weeks.
(btw., the comparison is unfair to Aoki himself, still it kinda suggests itself if only because he’s just as ruthless a bonecrusher)
Buuuuuuuut every video morsel where I get to see her hands looks baaaaaaaaad.
She also backs away like someone who is very uncomfortable with getting hit. A bit like green Lesnar, who, in all fairness, never completey overcame this but still got way better as he progressed.
Since I yet have to see an MMA woman with fast, clean hands and great footwork, Ronda can continue to spar with french-harlot-type makeup.
A not-so-dry-cut(?)Cyborg will inevitably close in like a bully, which is perfect for the “Rowdy”.
It’s a shame the japanese gals are so tiny. There goes half the world’s talent pool with (tiny)tits.
I see Ronda armbaring her way to like a six-wins-streak, then marrying off fat to some LA producer dick, or maybe first trying the film routine?
Ronda’s throws and trips are way better than anything I’ve seen from teh Shinya.
Japanese girls? 135lbs for a girl is considered fat down here in Singapore. Once made a passing remark, to a Chinese chick I was trying to dig, that I thought she was about 120lbs. She got pissed. I have yet to dig that.
Most girls at Uni here stand between 5’5==>5’7 and are very petite, even the serious Judo players.
Yeah, but without belitteling her, Ronda faced WAY weaker opponents then Shinya, who had bouts with certified killers.
It’s not a deep pool. Female martial arts in general suffers from this. A chick with just killer instinct can go pro in most martial sports, while with males that is just good enough for amateurs.
I say japanese girls because they have, to my knowledge the biggest single female MMA/Shooto/Grappling pool. Partly because of the strong judo roots, I suppose.
Gotta visit Singapore one day, though 
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Most girls at Uni here stand between 5’5==>5’7 and are very petite, even the serious Judo players.[/quote]
Hence my joke that I am tall…for an asian woman.
Regards,
Robert A
They say that western diet habits slowly take foot in the land of the rising sun.
Nowadays, teenagers like their fatty meat; Meaty fatties are on the rise.
I wonder if MacDonalds or similar fastfood franchises are considered hip and cool in Singapur?
p.s. let me add I also picked Aoki because he’s prone to break bones and show little remorse afterwards.(hence the “bonecrusher”)
To me, like with Rousey, this seems to come at least partly from the anxiety of getting punched on the face.
Aoki suffered some bad KOs from guys he could never hope to best hand-to-hand. His ground arsenal of course, speaks a different language.
Unconsciously, his eagerness to crank and no let go might be his way of coping with these fears (three of four first round KOs). It’s also part of his strategy, creating a renown, a persona that’s his aposematistic defense against muscular sluggers like Kawajiri (remember how he STARED at the guys tits?).
Like with Ronda or “Babyeater” Palhares, he’s able to get into their heads and they think each day:
“Will I be able to defend?” as they train for the fight.
As they face him in the ring: “Will he break my arm?” and when they are pulling, twisting, winding by instinct, as he cranks: “HE’LL BREAK MY ARM!”
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
p.s. let me add I also picked Aoki because he’s prone to break bones and show little remorse afterwards.(hence the “bonecrusher”)
To me, like with Rousey, this seems to come at least partly from the anxiety of getting punched on the face.
Aoki suffered some bad KOs from guys he could never hope to best hand-to-hand. His ground arsenal of course, speaks a different language.
Unconsciously, his eagerness to crank and no let go might be his way of coping with these fears (three of four first round KOs). It’s also part of his strategy, creating a renown, a persona that’s his aposematistic defense against muscular sluggers like Kawajiri (remember how he STARED at the guys tits?).
Like with Ronda or “Babyeater” Palhares, he’s able to get into their heads and they think each day:
“Will I be able to defend?” as they train for the fight.
As they face him in the ring: “Will he break my arm?” and when they are pulling, twisting, winding by instinct, as he cranks: “HE’LL BREAK MY ARM!”[/quote]
You may well be right, but then again some people are kind of…dicks.
I would also say that many of the Judoka I have met/trained with have viewed it as “tapping is the other guy/gals responsibility. If they want to, they will do it quickly. If they choose to show spirit, than they snap or sleep.” Seems to pervade the Japanese and Eastern Europeans in my limited scope of experience. Perhaps KMC or Rodimus Black could lend more insight there. I am not a subject matter expert on Judo across the globe.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Unconsciously, his eagerness to crank and no let go might be his way of coping with these fears (three of four first round KOs). It’s also part of his strategy, creating a renown, a persona that’s his aposematistic defense against muscular sluggers like Kawajiri (remember how he STARED at the guys tits?).
Like with Ronda or “Babyeater” Palhares, he’s able to get into their heads and they think each day:
“Will I be able to defend?” as they train for the fight.
As they face him in the ring: “Will he break my arm?” and when they are pulling, twisting, winding by instinct, as he cranks: “HE’LL BREAK MY ARM!”[/quote]
This.
And that’s what exactly I think happened with Meisha. Rousey was able to get to her mentally. I’m pretty sure she had nightmares about Rousey every night till fight night.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
I would also say that many of the Judoka I have met/trained with have viewed it as "tapping is the other guy/gals responsibility. [/quote]
Yes.
Wasn’t my problem if the other girl wouldn’t tap in competitions. If I had to break an arm or dislocate a shoulder or choke you to win, I would not hesitate. I specially would do if I had a grudge against the person - someone who beat me at a previous tournament or my ultimate nemesis – I seriously wouldn’t care. Pretty malicious, I know.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
A chick with just killer instinct can go pro in most martial sports, while with males that is just good enough for amateurs.
[/quote]
Damn right.
Shinya may be a dick, but Ronda…you guys call this “bitchy” or “cunty”.
In Germany, we have the perfect word, we call this “stutenbissig” (a mare’s tendency to bite other mares).
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Shinya may be a dick, but Ronda…you guys call this “bitchy” or “cunty”.
In Germany, we have the perfect word, we call this “stutenbissig” (a mare’s tendency to bite other mares).[/quote]
If Rousey’s plan is to go all bitin’ mare on Cyborg…there will be Schadenfreude. Oh yes.
Regards,
Robert A