When Cyborg comes back, don’t expect the same dominant female as she once was. Shes going to be under fire now. Once you fail a drug test, all eyes are on you. She won’t be as strong as she once was. But, theres a video of her wrestling Tito ortiz, so its going to be very hard for Rousey to deal with cyborg’s strength. The big question is, how much weaker will cyborg be when she comes back, no longer juiced. [/quote]
I disagree RV.
Cyborg has always been strong with or without steroids. I’m one of the few that believe she wasn’t juicing when she debuted on StrikeForce. It is a shame she decided to gain an unfair advantage over the other women later on. She didn’t need that shit since she was on top of her game already. Anyway, I’ve already said a lot about her in the Cyborg thread so I won’t ramble here.
And no, she’s not lying in her bed and eating ice cream all day. She’s at her gym every day, training, improving her ground work, kneeing, elbowing and punching a punching bag with a picture of Rousey glued to it. That in itself is enough to keep her motivated.
She will be back, strong, powerful and as dangerous as ever. And even Rousey won’t be able to stop her.
What Rousey needs is a great striker that will bash her around and make her piss her pants. Someone with heart. Can she even last 5 rounds? Can she survive a gruesome ground and pound? I’d love to see what she can do when the motor starts running out of gas. So far she’s been lucky with 3 wins under 1 min ( I won’t count that other tainted victory) but there must be more from her that I’d like to see. Any fighter that can get her in trouble will be in my good book. [/quote]
What do you think of my assessment that Kauffman could be that fighter?[/quote]
Sorry OE, I didn’t see this.
Kaufman would definitely be a great contender. Her ground work is not that stellar but I definitely see her giving Rousey a hard time. She’s a solid striker with some great KOs victories. She ain’t afraid to go for close range punch ups and during clinches, she’d use elbows strikes and knees.
As long as she can manage to counter Rousey’s takedowns and slow her down with powerful punches, she’d surely fare well vs Rousey.
On the flipside, Magalhaes has some serious elbow and shoulder flexibility, and is a top tier BJJ guy. Miesha is a chick with a serviceable ground game.
[/quote]
how many female BJJ players are “top tier”?
is their anybody out their in WMMA that has the ground skills to defend RR’s armbar?
and is RR a one trick pony? if she gets in a fight and cant finish her opponent with an armbar, does she have anything else?
I am not suggesting anything, just a legit question to the more learned MMA guys here.
[/quote]
A few. Girls like Kyra Gracie and her competition.
I’m not sure. Megumi Fuji? hahah, she’s a ways off from competing for the title last I checked. Cyborg is in the same camp as Werdum, so there’s that.
I’m going to guess Ronda’s ground game is top game centric, and while I feel she has some sick passes and control, her game off her back is probably not half as great. At least that’s what I experienced grappling Judo players. Guys like kmnyc will know more.
She probably has great kimuras/americanas too. Her chokes, going off her Judo background, are probably not as developed (in a gi, you use the lapel and sleeves; guillotines and RNCs are tougher to get). Again, just speculation.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Well, now we know bullrushing Miss Rousey is probably not going to end well. We also know she has pretty good back defense. We know her top game is still 5-star for WMMA. We know she can take a couple of hard shots without crumbling. [/quote]
I will disagree here. Tate is a poor striker, unfortunately. Maybe some of her punches made Rousey shy away during their stand up but they weren’t powerful enough to stop her. What I noticed from that fight is that Rousey doesn’t like being hit. Instead of hitting back, she fled. A solid striker would have finished her right then.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
So onto the Cyborg-Rousey matchup. What does everyone think? [/quote]
I think the ref could have step in - long before he did.
you can see Rounsey twist the wrist- around and into her own body to hid it
at one point she had the wrist and fist under her armpit- while she was bridging her hips up.
that is kind of more then full extension
a few things I can speak on- dislocated elbows hurt like hell
and take a while to heal hurt more then busted ribs or a dislocated shoulder
just my memory here.
I busted one of them not too badly lets say 6 to 8 weeks so not that bad but
it felt weak for a long time after
I did burst a bursa sack on my right elbow - swelled up like a melon that took a while to go down.
Rounseys- hips are incredible- yes that way too- but more so her ability to hip heist
change postion and generate power and speed
wow.
she did a hip heist that was awesome in her first take down
She also needs to tuck her chin- and work on head movement
as for her topgame its kinda tip top, and her back door escape was pretty smooth too
her guard passing seemed excellent
cant agree more with DN
do not clinch wih a judoka- unless you do ALOT of thai work
I dont think cyborg has the head for grappling- defensively
she move forward forward forward she likes to bang.
and it works for her.
as for ‘juicing’ she is from brazil and for the most part not illegal
and widely available just saying.
while I like rounsey I can live with out the drama
she is a beat but not unbeatable, someone with precision striking and power
and a great ground game can do it.
[quote]on edge wrote:
I think last nights arm break was bad for the sport. All the hype leading into the fight brought in a lot of main stream viewers who wouldn’t have been watching otherwise. This new audience was probably put off by the mangling of that girls arm especially considering the highly publicized tension between the two and how it could be seen to be done with malice.
I also think Miesha Tate was retired from the sport last night and that’s not good for the sport. That girls stubborn refusal to tap likely lead to a worst case dislocation. It is one thing with the dislocation but that added twisting at the end… I’m afraid there’s a lot of tissue damage from that.[/quote]
I now see womens mma being bigger than ever, cause of the rowdy one. I am a huge fan of hers. She is the first woman, that talks shit, isn’t all humble and apolagetic. She is almost the chael sonnen of womens mma. and that will put her in the spotlight, alot.
Heres a woman that talks shit, and has no mercy whatsoever. Shes doing what Frank Mir does, break arms. gina carano, has her beauty, but she was very soft spoken and humble. cyborg, she was dominant, but not outspoken. Rousey has both ingredients to be huge. she talks trash, and she can back it up. perfect combination. some will love her, some will hate her, but everyone will watch her.
I think the ref could have step in - long before he did.
you can see Rounsey twist the wrist- around and into her own body to hid it
at one point she had the wrist and fist under her armpit- while she was bridging her hips up.
that is kind of more then full extension
a few things I can speak on- dislocated elbows hurt like hell
and take a while to heal hurt more then busted ribs or a dislocated shoulder
just my memory here.
I busted one of them not too badly lets say 6 to 8 weeks so not that bad but
it felt weak for a long time after
I did burst a bursa sack on my right elbow - swelled up like a melon that took a while to go down.
Rounseys- hips are incredible- yes that way too- but more so her ability to hip heist
change postion and generate power and speed
wow.
she did a hip heist that was awesome in her first take down
She also needs to tuck her chin- and work on head movement
as for her topgame its kinda tip top, and her back door escape was pretty smooth too
her guard passing seemed excellent
cant agree more with DN
do not clinch wih a judoka- unless you do ALOT of thai work
I dont think cyborg has the head for grappling- defensively
she move forward forward forward she likes to bang.
and it works for her.
as for ‘juicing’ she is from brazil and for the most part not illegal
and widely available just saying.
while I like rounsey I can live with out the drama
she is a beat but not unbeatable, someone with precision striking and power
and a great ground game can do it.
[/quote]
Thing is, Tate did have a really good ground game. she trains at Alpha Male. thats uriah faber, chad mendes, joseph benevetez’ camp. All of them are incredible wrestlers. Tate has been wrestling since high school. yet, rousey, aside for 1 or 2 times, rousey dominated her on the ground. your not going to get much better than tate on the ground.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Well, now we know bullrushing Miss Rousey is probably not going to end well. We also know she has pretty good back defense. We know her top game is still 5-star for WMMA. We know she can take a couple of hard shots without crumbling.
So onto the Cyborg-Rousey matchup. What does everyone think?
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Mrs. Santos’ grappling skills aren’t on that level just yet, and based on the standup exchanges in the Carano fight, I’d say Ronda will probably be able to throw or trip her.
So it comes down to:
the 10lbs or more of lean mass she has on Ronda.
how well she can avoid the clinch and strike
whether or not she can capitalize on the top position if and when Rousey fails an armbar.[/quote]
When Cyborg comes back, don’t expect the same dominant female as she once was. Shes going to be under fire now. Once you fail a drug test, all eyes are on you. She won’t be as strong as she once was. But, theres a video of her wrestling Tito ortiz, so its going to be very hard for Rousey to deal with cyborg’s strength. The big question is, how much weaker will cyborg be when she comes back, no longer juiced. [/quote]
There’s also a vid of Rousey wrestling Mousasi. They both did ok given the size and skill difference.
It’ll be interesting to see how much the juice factored into Cyborg’s dominance.[/quote]
There is also a video of her training with Nick Diaz. needless to say, Nick could and did submit her anytime he feels like it. but, im sure she will learn tons from the diaz brothers and at cesar gracies.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Well, now we know bullrushing Miss Rousey is probably not going to end well. We also know she has pretty good back defense. We know her top game is still 5-star for WMMA. We know she can take a couple of hard shots without crumbling. [/quote]
I will disagree here. Tate is a poor striker, unfortunately. Maybe some of her punches made Rousey shy away during their stand up but they weren’t powerful enough to stop her. What I noticed from that fight is that Rousey doesn’t like being hit. Instead of hitting back, she fled. A solid striker would have finished her right then.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
So onto the Cyborg-Rousey matchup. What does everyone think? [/quote]
Cyborg to win.
[/quote]
Rousey, is an many ways like a female john bones jones. shes only been doing mma for a short time. watch some jones’ earlier fights in the ufc, and compare them to now. its like 2 different fighters. By the time cyborg’s suspension is up, and is ready to fight again, a good year will have gone by.
Rousey will be that much better. her striking will be better, her wrestling will be even better and she will most likely have other submissions. her chokes will be something fierce, once she gets comfortable with them. We will have to wait and see. if rousey improves, i pick her against cyborg.
her judo and wrestling are just to high notch for cyborg. Olympic medal winner is something cyborg has never dealt with.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
She is almost the chael sonnen of womens mma… some will love her, some will hate her, but everyone will watch her.[/quote]
Lets hope you’re wrong about the Chael Sonnen comparison since he is a cheater in his sport, a criminal in life and may also be a pathological liar. She doesn’t come across as a liar or a criminal, lets keep our fingers crossed about being a cheater.
Unfortunately she was clearly attracted to Chael when he hit on her at an event. Only time I’ve seen her flustered to the point of no words. The group she trains with is not exactly the Osmond Brothers. I see a lot of similarities between Ronda and Marion Jones. Attractive, charismatic, associates with the wrong people.
You may be right that people will want to watch her.
The arm bar attack against the turtle position that Rousey used is bread and butter to Judo players and once
Tate rolled on to her front to escape the punches it was impossible for her to defend against an Olympic standard judoka.
Putting herself in a position to be attacked by Rouseys strongest weapon was suicidal but perhaps Tate felt that she had no choice to escape the punches?
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
She is almost the chael sonnen of womens mma… some will love her, some will hate her, but everyone will watch her.[/quote]
Lets hope you’re wrong about the Chael Sonnen comparison since he is a cheater in his sport, a criminal in life and may also be a pathological liar. She doesn’t come across as a liar or a criminal, lets keep our fingers crossed about being a cheater.
Unfortunately she was clearly attracted to Chael when he hit on her at an event. Only time I’ve seen her flustered to the point of no words. The group she trains with is not exactly the Osmond Brothers. I see a lot of similarities between Ronda and Marion Jones. Attractive, charismatic, associates with the wrong people.
You may be right that people will want to watch her.[/quote]
As far as the sonnen comparison, obviously I only meant when it comes to promoting fights. I in no way meant she would be a cheater or a criminal, just that she is very good at promoting and people aren’t used to women talking that way. I think that is going to get her really infamous. this is what women need. I loved when rousey was talking about the fight in the ring, after winning. How she didn’t feel bad about what she did. I love that.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
Well, now we know bullrushing Miss Rousey is probably not going to end well. We also know she has pretty good back defense. We know her top game is still 5-star for WMMA. We know she can take a couple of hard shots without crumbling.
So onto the Cyborg-Rousey matchup. What does everyone think?
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Mrs. Santos’ grappling skills aren’t on that level just yet, and based on the standup exchanges in the Carano fight, I’d say Ronda will probably be able to throw or trip her.
So it comes down to:
the 10lbs or more of lean mass she has on Ronda.
how well she can avoid the clinch and strike
whether or not she can capitalize on the top position if and when Rousey fails an armbar.[/quote]
But, theres a video of her wrestling Tito ortiz, so its going to be very hard for Rousey to deal with cyborg’s strength. [/quote]
The way Rousey went for the clinch in the beginning made me cringe.
Tate did not fight smart and did not have the power to hurt Rousey on the way in. I give Cyborg a 50/50 shot of doing it well. She has the hands for it and chaining chin/neck level punches is vintage Chute Box. It worked for Wand when he fought good Judoka. The issue is Cyborg also loves to come forward.
Rousey will get caught if she doesn’t improve her tactics.
Rousey’s top game is great and her world class Judo means she is at the apex of female MMA for grappling.
On the flipside, Magalhaes has some serious elbow and shoulder flexibility, and is a top tier BJJ guy. Miesha is a chick with a serviceable ground game.
[/quote]
how many female BJJ players are “top tier”?
is their anybody out their in WMMA that has the ground skills to defend RR’s armbar?
and is RR a one trick pony? if she gets in a fight and cant finish her opponent with an armbar, does she have anything else?
I am not suggesting anything, just a legit question to the more learned MMA guys here.
[/quote]
First, I was worried when you were silent for/after Vitale’s last fight.
Second, I think that there are female grapplers who will be able to “not get caught” in grappling match with Rousey. The issue is that the pool of signed fighters is much, much smaller.
The second issue is will any one be able to survive while trying to win. Cyborg has a purple in BJJ and has the hands and knees to hurt Rousey badly if Rousey does not improve her game a ton.
I would not call Rousey a “one trick pony” because she has great standing and top control grappling. She also seems able to revers and get up from the bottom. The issue I see is her standing game actively leaves her open to being hit. At some point she will pay the price for that.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
She is almost the chael sonnen of womens mma… some will love her, some will hate her, but everyone will watch her.[/quote]
Lets hope you’re wrong about the Chael Sonnen comparison since he is a cheater in his sport, a criminal in life and may also be a pathological liar. She doesn’t come across as a liar or a criminal, lets keep our fingers crossed about being a cheater.
Unfortunately she was clearly attracted to Chael when he hit on her at an event. Only time I’ve seen her flustered to the point of no words. The group she trains with is not exactly the Osmond Brothers. I see a lot of similarities between Ronda and Marion Jones. Attractive, charismatic, associates with the wrong people.
You may be right that people will want to watch her.[/quote]
As far as the sonnen comparison, obviously I only meant when it comes to promoting fights. I in no way meant she would be a cheater or a criminal, just that she is very good at promoting and people aren’t used to women talking that way. I think that is going to get her really infamous. this is what women need. I loved when rousey was talking about the fight in the ring, after winning. How she didn’t feel bad about what she did. I love that.
[/quote]
Her lack of empathy is another thing I’m a little uncomfortable with about Ronda. To make another comparison; Mike Tyson would talk shit about eating his opponents children before a fight. After he knocked them out he was always right there showing concern. (Granted, if a fighter was unconscious but hadn’t reached canvas yet, they were still fair game as far as Mike was concerned lol) Now I’m not saying Ronda should be less ruthless in the ring but if I saw a little empathy after the fight I’d be more comfortable that she is not another Marion Jones.
Putting herself in a position to be attacked by Rouseys strongest weapon was suicidal but perhaps Tate felt that she had no choice to escape the punches?
[/quote]
Another ignorant question from me; would it have been ineffective for Tate to do some hip thrusts and/or lunge up and grab for Ronda’s head and neck to pull her in close?
