Are people forgetting she’s a woman? Avoiding getting punched by another woman is one thing but for her to avoid getting punched by a man (and we aren’t talking an ordinary man) is something entirely different. In fact, she can’t even avoid getting punched by women.
Oh, she’ll get punched, I doubt anyone is arguing that she’ll waltz in untouched, the question is whether she gets KO’d. Even if she gets hit 10 times and cut coming in, if she doesn’t get KO’d and can get to a clinch, she is taking Mayweather down and walking away with the victory.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Oh, she’ll get punched, I doubt anyone is arguing that she’ll waltz in untouched, the question is whether she gets KO’d. Even if she gets hit 10 times and cut coming in, if she doesn’t get KO’d and can get to a clinch, she is taking Mayweather down and walking away with the victory.[/quote]
She is never fighting Mayweather. He would have nothing to gain, and the money that he stands to make isn’t worth him gloving up. Not to disagree with her “keys to victory” in any way. Rousey on the other hand should be willing to strangle kittens for what that fight would bring her.
I have no idea if her and Wolfe could make a go of it because, crossover hype. It would only take tens of thousands of dollars to be a big pay day for Wolfe. Floyd would need tens of millions to consider it just from a financial stand point.
Regards,
Robert A
Of course you are right Robert, still fun to debate hypotheticals though. 
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Oh, she’ll get punched, I doubt anyone is arguing that she’ll waltz in untouched, the question is whether she gets KO’d. Even if she gets hit 10 times and cut coming in, if she doesn’t get KO’d and can get to a clinch, she is taking Mayweather down and walking away with the victory.[/quote]
If she gets hit she won’t get KOed, she’ll be comatose.
People call me a sexist, but you are in sweet, sweet denial.
I wish some guys would chip together so there could be some kind of fight between a boxer, i dunno, maybe a National Golden Gloves middleweight champ with a solid weight advantage vs a grappler; I hear there is some family clan who claim they are particularly good at it, maybe they would accept gracieously?
The other big error you make is looking at two MMA athletes , eg Miesha vs Ronda. Both girls assumed they can whoop the other at any distance.
When fighting Floyd (for 20 mio or so) Ronda’s head would never raise higher than during desperate sex with a remarkebly short person.
Float like a charging bull, stick like a fly to a shitheap.
Bam.
Ground.
Submission.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
People call me a sexist, but you are in sweet, sweet denial.
I wish some guys would chip together so there could be some kind of fight between a boxer, i dunno, maybe a National Golden Gloves middleweight champ with a solid weight advantage vs a grappler; I hear there is some family clan who claim they are particularly good at it, maybe they would accept gracieously?
The other big error you make is looking at two MMA athletes , eg Miesha vs Ronda. Both girls assumed they can whoop the other at any distance.
When fighting Floyd (for 20 mio or so) Ronda’s head would never raise higher than during desperate sex with a remarkebly short person.
Float like a charging bull, stick like a fly to a shitheap.
Bam.
Ground.
Submission.
[/quote]
Ahhhh, but the Gracies never had their female members fight men.
So now Ronda, a Judoka, has a double leg on the level of an elite, male wrestler?
The Gracies never had an “Amazon challenge” for the same reasons Floyd will never fight Ronda.
Also, she doesn’t need the double leg “on the level of an elite, male wrestler”.
Its even easier for her since Royce did in fact fight elite wrestlers and grapplers - quite sucessfully.
She fights a total amateur that has a very managable weight advantage.
What would he do if she bootscoots towards him? Or reverse guard-scoots?
Or if she does the classic Gracie frontkick, frontkick, measure, measure, suicide dive, I mean has anybody ever thrown a kick at Floyd?
He’s a lean shark on land vs a wolverine with tits.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
The Gracies never had an “Amazon challenge” for the same reasons Floyd will never fight Ronda.
Also, she doesn’t need the double leg “on the level of an elite, male wrestler”.
Its even easier for her since Royce did in fact fight elite wrestlers and grapplers - quite sucessfully.
She fights a total amateur that has a very managable weight advantage.
What would he do if she bootscoots towards him? Or reverse guard-scoots?
Or if she does the classic Gracie frontkick, frontkick, measure, measure, suicide dive, I mean has anybody ever thrown a kick at Floyd?
He’s a lean shark on land vs a wolverine with tits.
[/quote]
Royce is a man. Royce grew up training for a real fight against other men, bigger and stronger men, while Ronda grew up training to win a Judo tournament match against other women who were in her weight class. Ronda would have beaten Severn, Shamrock and Kimo? I really doubt you even watch mma or know what buttscooting is because if you did, you would know that in an mma match, which is what is being discussed, buttscooting is not allowed. The ref just stands the fighter up. I have no idea what a reverse guard is but if you mean inverted then I doubt Ronda even knows how to do that properly.
She’s a woman. Elite female athletes are not only weaker and slower than male elite athletes they aren’t even on the same level as elite high school boys. There is video of Gabi Garcia (a woman, supposedly) rolling with Marcelo Garcia (no relation) and even though Gabi is a world champion and has around 100 pounds on Marcelo, she is clearly out of her depth. Being a man really does make a difference.
This will be my final post for this dull topic
Ronda, like most elite MMA gals, trains probably more with guys than with other women.
I dont know what you are talking about.
What I wrote was that Ronda will clearly have an easier time submitting Floyd than Royce had with the aforementioned wrestlers - who were all much stronger.
In other words that even a non-athlete would understand:
Royce faced a smaller skillgap and a bigger strengthgap.
Ronda enjoys -hypothetically- as big a skillgap as there can possibly be.
Physically, Floyd is (dunno ~10lbs?) stronger and heavier, but on the ground, where it really matters, that counts for nothing, mainly because of his amateurish inexperience.
Gabi Garcia is a freak of nature, but its clearly her size that allows her to dominate much, much smaller women. She is not a technician.
Of course Marcelo smokes her, he is maybe the best pound for pound BJJ wizard.
Your example, which involves two pro grapplers, has no connection whatsoever to Ronda-Floyd.
What you are saying is that a team of untrained guys would beat any women’s pro team in Soccer.
Yes, a team of 16 to17 year national youth boys will destroy the women, but that’s a totally different story.
I’m really sorry but balls are not that magical and powerful.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Oh, she’ll get punched, I doubt anyone is arguing that she’ll waltz in untouched, the question is whether she gets KO’d. Even if she gets hit 10 times and cut coming in, if she doesn’t get KO’d and can get to a clinch, she is taking Mayweather down and walking away with the victory.[/quote]
If she gets hit she won’t get KOed, she’ll be comatose. [/quote]
This. This argument is fucking retarded. She fights women in women’s MMA. You put a male boxer in there (never mind one with Mayweather’s hand speef, foot speed and reflexes) and she gets lit up like a Chinese fire drill. She’d get her fuckin’ head spun backwards the first time she charged.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
This will be my final post for this dull topic
Ronda, like most elite MMA gals, trains probably more with guys than with other women.
I dont know what you are talking about.
What I wrote was that Ronda will clearly have an easier time submitting Floyd than Royce had with the aforementioned wrestlers - who were all much stronger.
In other words that even a non-athlete would understand:
Royce faced a smaller skillgap and a bigger strengthgap.
Ronda enjoys -hypothetically- as big a skillgap as there can possibly be.
Physically, Floyd is (dunno ~10lbs?) stronger and heavier, but on the ground, where it really matters, that counts for nothing, mainly because of his amateurish inexperience.
Gabi Garcia is a freak of nature, but its clearly her size that allows her to dominate much, much smaller women. She is not a technician.
Of course Marcelo smokes her, he is maybe the best pound for pound BJJ wizard.
Your example, which involves two pro grapplers, has no connection whatsoever to Ronda-Floyd.
What you are saying is that a team of untrained guys would beat any women’s pro team in Soccer.
Yes, a team of 16 to17 year boys will destroy the women, but that’s a totally different story.
I’m really sorry but balls are not that magical and powerful.
[/quote]
Not at all what he said. You’re being intentionally dense.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Oh, she’ll get punched, I doubt anyone is arguing that she’ll waltz in untouched, the question is whether she gets KO’d. Even if she gets hit 10 times and cut coming in, if she doesn’t get KO’d and can get to a clinch, she is taking Mayweather down and walking away with the victory.[/quote]
If she gets hit she won’t get KOed, she’ll be comatose. [/quote]
This. This argument is fucking retarded. She fights women in women’s MMA. You put a male boxer in there (never mind one with Mayweather’s hand speef, foot speed and reflexes) and she gets lit up like a Chinese fire drill. She’d get her fuckin’ head spun backwards the first time she charged.[/quote]
Not at all, it’s UFC 1 all over again. BJJ’s sole purpose is for the weaker smaller person to win. Floyd can only fight with one thing, that’s it. Rhonda has a million ways to take him down and she at least knows how to throw leg kicks. Like others said, balls aren’t magical. Floyd has a punchers chance and that’s it. If she doesn’t get KO’d, she’s taking his arm home, end if discussion. In know way shape or form is he getting off the ground if she gets him there.
Non one here’s arguing that she wouldn’t sub him if she got a hold of him. I’m sayin’ there’s no way she makes it past a straight right to the button.
High level, world class, championship boxers get picked apart by PBF. He’s got a 6" reach advantage and an exponential speed advantage. We aren’t talking Couture v. Toney or even Gracie v. Jimmerson here.
Don’t forget that Rousey said she can beat Cain Velazquez too. I wouldn’t listen to her if she told me water was wet.
Can an elderly, Asian man single-handedly defeat five young men at once?
[quote]NickViar wrote:
Can an elderly, Asian man single-handedly defeat five young men at once?
If Rousey can pull off the Crane, she won’t even have to take him down!
[quote]JWolfe wrote:
If Rousey can pull off the Crane, she won’t even have to take him down![/quote]
Good point.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Oh, she’ll get punched, I doubt anyone is arguing that she’ll waltz in untouched, the question is whether she gets KO’d. Even if she gets hit 10 times and cut coming in, if she doesn’t get KO’d and can get to a clinch, she is taking Mayweather down and walking away with the victory.[/quote]
If she gets hit she won’t get KOed, she’ll be comatose. [/quote]
This. This argument is fucking retarded. She fights women in women’s MMA. You put a male boxer in there (never mind one with Mayweather’s hand speef, foot speed and reflexes) and she gets lit up like a Chinese fire drill. She’d get her fuckin’ head spun backwards the first time she charged.[/quote]
Not at all, it’s UFC 1 all over again. BJJ’s sole purpose is for the weaker smaller person to win. Floyd can only fight with one thing, that’s it. Rhonda has a million ways to take him down and she at least knows how to throw leg kicks. Like others said, balls aren’t magical. Floyd has a punchers chance and that’s it. If she doesn’t get KO’d, she’s taking his arm home, end if discussion. In know way shape or form is he getting off the ground if she gets him there. [/quote]
You left out some important details. BJJ was created to help a weaker, smaller person defeat a physically superior one but there is more to it than that. MMA is not self-defense, it is a sport. BJJ was not intended for mma. UFC 1, though not a self-defense situation was closer to reality (reality of being in a one on one fight with no weapons) than mma/UFC today. Also, should we even say that it was created for a smaller, weaker person or should we say a smaller, weaker man? The reality of self-defense is that survival is victory. A woman doesn’t need to break an attacker’s arm or choke him out; she just needs to avoid getting killed, raped, seriously injured, etc. And that is exactly what a competent BJJ instructor would tell women (and even men) who train. He would not tell her that she will be able to fight Mike Tyson and win because he is a boxer and she is a BJJ ninja. He wouldn’t say, “close the distance and take him down,” but rather, “if there is distance between you then run away.”
Yes, in a “real” situation Ronda, or any trained woman, can survive and maybe even “win.” But there is a difference between getting grabbed in a parking garage (distance already closed, grappling situation from the start), having a date turn bad on a sofa (again, already a grappling situation) or any other reality based situation that women might face vs standing across a cage from a professional fighter who knows exactly what the circumstances he finds himself in are. A lot of people talk about what BJJ is yet they don’t really have a clue. They see Royce, someone who trained for the exact scenario that was the early UFC for almost his entire life, beat the opponents he faced and they think that somehow that translates to anyone, male or female, who does BJJ. Training in BJJ, Judo or even for the UFC does not mean you are training for the fight of your life against some psycho who is twice your size that wants to kill you. Even Rickson has said that when he looks at a lot of the smaller fighters in the UFC as well as smaller BJJ competitors he doesn’t see anything that tells him they could handle someone who was a couple of weight classes heavier. Anyway, the point is that comparing Royce to Ronda is ridiculous. You are comparing someone who from the age of three was training to avoid getting punched in the face by someone bigger and stronger to someone who has been doing that for a couple of years and it’s against slower, softer hitting women her own size. Yeah, she trains with guys but they go easy on her. Even the the BJJ guys who roll with her and aren’t even black belts, let alone world champions, go easy on her.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Non one here’s arguing that she wouldn’t sub him if she got a hold of him. I’m sayin’ there’s no way she makes it past a straight right to the button.[/quote]
If it lands on the button no argument, she’s going night night.
But a few hard leg kicks to Floyd’s lead leg are going to slow him down, get him to start lifting his leg and checking them (which puts him on one leg and thus makes his straight right a hell of a lot less dangerous and keeps him from using his footwork to keep Roussey out of clinch range), make his evasive head and body movement that he is so good at a hell of a lot less effective, possibly make him start dropping his hands to try to block the kicks, and spread his defensive focus to the low line (something that will be totally alien to him coming from a pure boxing background).
His reach advantage is also based on arm wingspan vs arm wingspan, not wingspan vs legspan, so his usual sense of distance will also be thrown off at least early on. Combine that with taking away his legs, putting him on one foot and nullifying much of the effectiveness of his beloved shoulder rolling and Philly shell skills and his reach isn’t going to be the game changer you guys seem to think it will be.
Of course Ronda isn’t some uber Thai fighter either, but she doesn’t really need to be, she just needs to understand how to use the kicks and the threat of those kicks to make Floyd stand still long enough that she can jam her way in and get a hold of him. Once that happens it’s game over because she is every bit as much better than Floyd at grappling as Floyd is better than her at boxing.
There are no absolutes though, so ultimately it comes down to who can impose and execute their game plan better.