[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Of course a woman can beat a man under certain conditions. A man untrained in Judo would lose to Rhonda in a Judo match. A man untrained in BJJ would lose to Kyra Gracie in a BJJ match. When you factor in size and strength differences they matter in the same way that they matter with men. The bigger and stronger the opponent the higher skill level the smaller person, male or female, will need to compensate.
The problem for women, and even men, is when you start going away from a sport context with specific rules and move towards “reality.” Being good, or even great, at Judo, BJJ, wrestling, or any other combat sport and/or combat art’s sport side, does not mean you know self-defense regardless of size and sex differences. That’s why it’s not hard to imagine a 135 pound male UFC fighter getting his ass kicked by a 225 pound guy who is “just” an experienced street fighter. [/quote]
This is also silly. Fighters fight. It’s what they do. I’ve never met a single competitive fighter who was “lost” in a street fight, but I’ve met several legitimate regular “tough guys” who got their asses handed to them in a ring. I’m not saying that being a trained professional automatically puts you on God Mode, but it definitely gives you the automatic upperhand in just about any violent altercation. Ever see the video of Roger Huerta fighting some massive black dude on the streets in Austin?[/quote]
Some fighters come from hard lives an crappy neighborhoods, those people will be familiar with real world violence and will do well in the street. Other fighters who are less familiar with real world violence may freeze or act completely uncharacteristicly (compared to how they act in their sport fights) due to the very different nature (and potential consequences) of real violence compared to sport fighting.
You also see a lot of sport fighters making critical mistakes whenever engaging in fights outside of the ring. For instance, in the ring they always attempt to control distance, always keep a good guard and attempt to protect themselves at all times, keep their chin tucked, blade their body to deny their opponent access to their vital targets, etc… But when you see them engaging in altercations outside of the ring they get right up face to face with their opponent, have their hands down by their sides, stand square, have their chin way up in the air, etc… Basically there is a total disconnect between what they are taught to do in the ring (good habits) and what they do when it’s real.[/quote]
I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous. Have you ever actually seen a trained fighter forget he was in a street fight and wait for the bell while he’s getting wailed on? Fighters fight. Pretending like they’re going to automatically resort to “point fighting” in a real world situation is silly at best.[/quote]
Why yes actually, I have seen trained sport fighters freeze up in real fights. No, they don’t wait for the bell or resort to point fighting, but when faced with a much larger hyper aggressive attacker who is threatening their life and there is very little if any build-up they are faced with a situation unlike what they are used to dealing with. Add a weapon into the situation and again they are faced with a situation that they are unfamiliar with. The dynamics of real fights are completely different from Combat Sport dynamics.
Again though, there will be sport fighters who grew up in rough areas where street violence was prevalent and therefore those individuals will be familiar with real world violence. But they didn’t gain that knowledge from competing in boxing, or Muay Thai, or BJJ, or MMA, or any other combat sport. Those individuals will be more effective street fighters though because of the attributes (like timing, controlling of distance, accuracy, speed, etc…) that they have developed from their sport fighting training (which I wholeheartedly believe is a crucial practice for maximizing real world combat effectiveness).
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+1
“Fighters” don’t actually fight. They participate in combat oriented sporting events that take place at a mutually agreed upon time and place under an agreed upon set of rules after both parties have been given ample opportunity to make themselves ready. The environment is completely predictable and controlled. Protective equipment is worn and if anyone gets in bad trouble the event is halted and immediate medical aid is rendered.
Both participants are generally of roughly equal size, skill and training background and contests are undertaken out of a mutual desire to see who is better in a given discipline. They have usually studied each others’ “game” ahead of time and have worked out a plan. Technical excellence and preparation are generally the deciding factors. Stress is performance anxiety, not survival stress.
Real world violence is very different. Generally only one guy knows the fight is starting before it does, there is usually a disparity in size, the environment is dynamic, uncontrolled and unpredictable, there are no agreed upon rules or likely “I do this, he does that” exchanges. Speed, surprise and violence of action will generally carry the day and whoever escalates the fastest and lands the first telling shot will probably win.
Survival Stress Reaction has given you tunnel vision, compromised your fine, complex motor skills and degraded your cognitive function. It’s just an ugly sloppy mess of unstructured violence with few recognizable “techniques” as the person with the greater aggression and resolve overwhelms the other person, usually in ten seconds or less. No one is helping you if you get in trouble.
Many very proficient ring fighters are just not mentally prepared for that. Some people are just wired for it or grew up in that environment and happen to get into combat sports. That’s different. Sport fighting is a great tool and can be applied to devastating effect in the “real” world, but more often than not, gutter fighting is how these things play out, regardless of what you did in the ring/cage/dojo.
