Road to NPC Diamond April 2013

Training
21

[quote]roon12 wrote:
Thanks for the detailed response, its clear you are putting a hell of a lot of effort and thought into this!!

With regard to food, do you tend to have ‘staple’ meals that you go to often and know the macros for(eg the fluff and cereal) or do you eat a wider variety and weigh/calculate daily?
Also are you tracking micros or just ensuring that you eat plenty of micronutrient rich ‘healthy’ foods.

Sorry for bombarding you with questions but its interesting seeing a detailed log of someone following a ‘less traditional’ (?) approach (ie not chicken and rice 6x a day) :)[/quote]

Dude…do not apologize! It is absolutely AWESOME to me that you or anyone else is even interested in this thread and asking me questions. I love this!!

On to your question:
The way I eat and probably will continue to eat even close to the show is freestyle. I don’t wake up with a set meal plan…in fact, things vary a bit daily. I’m the type that will be at work thinking about “hm, what can I eat for dinner or make later” …OR…I’m the type who will be in the grocery store and look for new shit to try.

However, this is usually for one or two meals out of the day that I tend to just with what I want or feel. I almost always have the same breakfast and desert and my lunches can be relatively standard as well. So, I DO have staple meals that I tend to eat every day but, I also eat different things daily as well.

I almost ALWAYS have some sort of dairy based breakfast, snack AND desert…made up of roughly the same things…and I still weigh each ingredient out every time I eat it. I.e. greek yogurt, cottage cheese w/ puffed wheat or puffed rice, rice krispies, apples, bananas, sugar free jell-o all mixed together in a bowl and eaten. I call them “junk” bowls and sometimes vary the ingredients or add a few extra things depending upon how many carbs I have for the day and what I have left for the day at that given time. I legitimately eat this concoction 2-3 times per day just about every day…It’s actually pretty damn voluminous and hits my sweet tooth…plus I get a couple servings of fruit every time I eat one of these bowls.

I usually have a sandwich per day as well…I used to use Smart White Wonder Bread…but, they are out of business. The macros and fiber content was great on that shit even though it was white bread and by Wonder lol…very low carbs for two slices of bread. Since then…I’ve been using Nature’s Own Smart Wheat or Smart White…pretty much interchangeable calories/macros with the edge going to the Smart Wheat due to the better fiber content.

My main dinner dishes usually are based around chicken protein or 99/1 ground turkey protein. If I have a fair amount of dietary fat left to eat…then I will have a leaner cut of red meat, lean ground beef, or maybe even pork tenderloin. Sometimes I’m really lazy and just have grilled chicken with 2-3 servings of green veg (typically broccoli) or sometimes I will make something a bit more elaborate.

In regards to micros/fiber…at the end of the day I always seem to get at least 25g of fiber unless it’s an exceedingly low carb day like that of Sundays. I eat usually 3 servings of fruit and about 3-5 servings of green vegetables per day. 1. I really enjoy both and 2. they add volume to my meals and help at least SOMEWHAT with feeling fullER. The app that I use to track my macros also lists the important vitamins and minerals…I’m typically at 200% or so for Vitamin A and Vitamin C and get a ton of calcium from the dairy protein/casein powder that I use. Iron is usually higher when I eat red meat and I’m pretty much in line with all of my other needs. I believe the fact that my diet can be variable allows for me to get a wider amount of micronutrients…It would actually be difficult to get the same micronutrient numbers that I’m getting now IF I just stuck to like 3-4 “clean” foods… i.e. chicken, rice etc.

Short answer…my diet varies day to day with some mainstays that I’m addicted to…and I DO weigh and calculate everything I eat daily.

22

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I prepped for almost 5 months leading into my show, and you are way ahead of my progress. If you stick to your plan you will come in shredded for sure. The weight issue can kind of mess with your head (it did me, I ended up on stage at 158) but you said yourself, there is a massive disconnect between Natty and “regular” BBing shows. “Heavy” natty’s in the 5’8" - 5’10" range are like 180-185 if that.

Just keep on keepin’ on and you’ll have an end product to be proud of, win, lose, or draw.[/quote]

Really appreciate the words of wisdom…I’m just going to try my best to come in the best condition possible. I can say that I have not missed one training session…not one time did I go over my macros…and I have not missed one cardio session in the last 4 months…

I don’t say that to brag…I say it because I will not allow myself to do less than I am capable or asked of by my coaches…I can accept not placing well or something in a show KNOWING that I gave my 100%…but, I cannot accept the same fate knowing I could have done another 10%…I could have done exactly what was asked of me and I didn’t…that could mean one binge day or 1 day where I skimp on cardio. I just won’t allow myself to experience the feeling of “I could have done more”. [/quote]

I guess I would be directing this question at either Lonnie or you, facko, and I hope you won’t regard it as my trolling or anything like that. If it’s deemed too off-topic, then feel free to just say so.

I guess I don’t understand you guys’ decision to compete at this stage. I’m using Lonnie as the template for my thinking because we’re the same height, but I just couldn’t imagine dieting down to less than 160lbs and feeling like I was a bodybuilder.

The two extremes are (i) the “compete today” mentality and (ii) the “wait until I’m ready” mentality. I understand that some may say “I’m not ready” forever, but for bodybuilding it seems like one should put in a number of years of quality and consistent training before competing.

I’m also curious regarding the pessimism for the ability of a natty to look muscular. I understand that Stu is now a professional, but people like Hungry4More and ebomb (no longer on the site) are huge natty dudes. I would even point to paulieserafini’s leaning out as a counterpoint to the notion that nattys are just inevitably tiny (though paulie has not dieted down, I would imagine that he would be more than 160lbs…). No offense to Lonnie, but I always feel like I read him using being a natty as an excuse to not progress above a certain bodyweight when I look at people like ebomb who never put those limitations on themselves and made awesome progress.

Dieting is addicting for some, and I guess actually competing at such an early stage seems like a great excuse to basically spend years spinning one’s wheels without making any serious progress in the weight room. I find myself wondering whether that’s really it: dieting is easier for you because you get the “instant results” that “bulking” doesn’t really provide (bloated at times, loss of leanness, etc.).

Is my head just stuck up my ass to feel this to be the case? It may well be, which is why I’m voicing the question to see what your response is. I guess I’m just interested to hear what really made you decide that competing was the right move for you instead of actually building a base. Sorry if the post offends: wasn’t my intention.

23

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I prepped for almost 5 months leading into my show, and you are way ahead of my progress. If you stick to your plan you will come in shredded for sure. The weight issue can kind of mess with your head (it did me, I ended up on stage at 158) but you said yourself, there is a massive disconnect between Natty and “regular” BBing shows. “Heavy” natty’s in the 5’8" - 5’10" range are like 180-185 if that.

Just keep on keepin’ on and you’ll have an end product to be proud of, win, lose, or draw.[/quote]

Really appreciate the words of wisdom…I’m just going to try my best to come in the best condition possible. I can say that I have not missed one training session…not one time did I go over my macros…and I have not missed one cardio session in the last 4 months…

I don’t say that to brag…I say it because I will not allow myself to do less than I am capable or asked of by my coaches…I can accept not placing well or something in a show KNOWING that I gave my 100%…but, I cannot accept the same fate knowing I could have done another 10%…I could have done exactly what was asked of me and I didn’t…that could mean one binge day or 1 day where I skimp on cardio. I just won’t allow myself to experience the feeling of “I could have done more”. [/quote]

I guess I would be directing this question at either Lonnie or you, facko, and I hope you won’t regard it as my trolling or anything like that. If it’s deemed too off-topic, then feel free to just say so.

I guess I don’t understand you guys’ decision to compete at this stage. I’m using Lonnie as the template for my thinking because we’re the same height, but I just couldn’t imagine dieting down to less than 160lbs and feeling like I was a bodybuilder.

The two extremes are (i) the “compete today” mentality and (ii) the “wait until I’m ready” mentality. I understand that some may say “I’m not ready” forever, but for bodybuilding it seems like one should put in a number of years of quality and consistent training before competing.

I’m also curious regarding the pessimism for the ability of a natty to look muscular. I understand that Stu is now a professional, but people like Hungry4More and ebomb (no longer on the site) are huge natty dudes. I would even point to paulieserafini’s leaning out as a counterpoint to the notion that nattys are just inevitably tiny (though paulie has not dieted down, I would imagine that he would be more than 160lbs…). No offense to Lonnie, but I always feel like I read him using being a natty as an excuse to not progress above a certain bodyweight when I look at people like ebomb who never put those limitations on themselves and made awesome progress.

Dieting is addicting for some, and I guess actually competing at such an early stage seems like a great excuse to basically spend years spinning one’s wheels without making any serious progress in the weight room. I find myself wondering whether that’s really it: dieting is easier for you because you get the “instant results” that “bulking” doesn’t really provide (bloated at times, loss of leanness, etc.).

Is my head just stuck up my ass to feel this to be the case? It may well be, which is why I’m voicing the question to see what your response is. I guess I’m just interested to hear what really made you decide that competing was the right move for you instead of actually building a base. Sorry if the post offends: wasn’t my intention.
[/quote]

I remain unoffended…You need to understand that I didn’t think I was at that early of a stage. I competed in powerlifting in 2009…took a lay off sure…almost 2 years…and when I began training again, everything came back relatively quickly and then some. I was upwards of 180lbs when I decided to diet down and all of my lift numbers were pretty respectable. I looked relatively aesthetic even at that weight…so, I thought let me diet down and see what’s up.

Guess what…I GROSSLY overestimated how much lean body mass I was really carrying and I only found this out in the dieting process. I think you’d find out the same…as well as Paulie(no offense to him) etc…Most natural guys that look relatively strong and big are not even close to stage lean. I’m around 5’7" and could hang at 165-170lbs with abs and decent arm leanness…but, there’s no way in hell I’ll ever be over 155lbs with full on striations in my glutes…it’s not possible given my frame.

I believe in general because very few actually get stage lean…there becomes a large disconnect with how much one should weigh etc.

I also want to say that getting incredibly lean can be seen as an investment. At least for me it is…I can go from beach ready abs lean to fat looking in a matter of some months if I overestimated what I need calorically to make gains. HOWEVER, If I’m SLOWLY reversing my calories from stage lean and then eating a VERY slight surplus daily…I can remain pretty retarded lean year round and make very good gym progress and nice slow steady LBM gains that will pay off 2-3 years down the road of doing so.

I’m not going to have to ever really cut for any extended length of time after this show IF I reverse diet properly and eat only a slight surplus after…I’ll be able to make slow, steady gains for 2-3 years with no to very minimal mini cuts.

I’m not saying strength means all that much…but, I still consider myself intermediate trainee due to my relative strength numbers. My bench press took a decent hit over the course of this prep…however, my deadlift is still in the low 400s at roughly 150lb bodyweight…I think that’s respectable. I’m really not one to throw around numbers…but, I figured it was pertinent.

24

Good stuff, I’ll be following.

x2 on the request for full-body pics. Need to see the big picture.

25

Interested in this, me and you share similar stats, 5’6-5’7 here. Where in Florida are you?

26

What’s the name of the app you use for macro’s?

27

[quote]lemony2j wrote:
What’s the name of the app you use for macro’s?[/quote]

I use myfitnesspal …I did use macros+ for a bit but, I personally could not get into it. Some people swear by it though…

28

[quote]Serge A. Storms wrote:
Good stuff, I’ll be following.

x2 on the request for full-body pics. Need to see the big picture.
[/quote]

Hey bro…I have a bunch of tinypic links in the second post of mine on this thread. Thanks for following!

29

[quote]MangoMan305 wrote:
Interested in this, me and you share similar stats, 5’6-5’7 here. Where in Florida are you?[/quote]

I’m in South Florida…Palm Beach area.

30

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Today is a more busy day…woke up and went straight to work basically…didn’t have time to hit cardio before work. Got out around 6pm and headed to the gym. Session was indeed demanding. 12 sets of bench…5 sets of deadlifts and 3 sets of standing overhead press…all of which 5 reps or below. Very minimal but, very demanding if you are really pushing weights that challenge you each set. Strength is down from when I began obviously…but, holding up relatively well in the last month.

I Just finished up my macros for the day before beginning to type this and will be hitting up a 500kcal elliptical session around 10:30pm…shower…sleep.

Macros for the day were 250g protein, 280g carb and 35g fat…hit everything within 3g or so.

Meals:
Breakfast… greek yogurt/cottage cheese w/chopped apple, puffed wheat, sugar free pudding, sugar free jello all mixed up in a big bowl … cup of black coffee

Between Lunch: Sandwich of chicken breast on Natures Own Smart Wheat

Lunch: I weighed out some of the left over Panda Express from last night…basically 4oz fried rice, like 4oz Green Bean Chicken, 1 Veggie Spring Roll…then I had a scoop of casein protein blended up with a banana and decent amount of ice until it was a fluffy consistency that was edible with a spoon.

Pre/During Training: I had 1 scoop of Humapro before training…then intraworkout I sip on Karbolyn (only 10-20g carbs worth depending on the day) mixed with another scoop of Humapro.

Post training/Dinner: 4oz of extra lean pork tenderloin grilled…I topped it off with sauteed vinegar cherry peppers, 2 servings of broccoli, and sliced up some fresh tomato on the side. Right after dinner I typically have my dairy meal/desert which is very similar to the greekyogurt/cottage cheese breakfast. Tonight to hit my macros I was able to have: greek yogurt, cottage cheese, 1 scoop casein protein, 3 servings puffed wheat, 1/2 serving rice krispies, a chopped apple, a sliced banana, and a sugar free jello all mixed up together.

I’ve actually included a picture of one of these “junk bowl” cottage cheese/greek yogurt based concoctions that I seem to eat daily. It probably looks gross to you guys but, I really love sweet food and that hits the spot. The puffed wheat and fruit are pretty voluminous as well…so I actually get a lot of volume with a really sweet taste. As opposed to when I eat a poptart or something and I’ve dusted off 40g worth of carbohydrate in only a few quick bites…not really worthwhile when my carbs are below 400g IMO.

Over the course of this prep I have found a lot of various concoctions and foods that are both voluminous and taste great to me…there is a balance that needs to be found or else you will end up way too hungry practicing IIFYM with purely “junk” foods… This is why I include so much fruit, at least 2-5 servings of broccoli or green beans etc per day…and a lot of things like puffed wheat and what not. I enjoy eating them…they fit my macros…and they keep me SOMEWHAT full…more so than if I just ate cap’n crunch, poptarts and whey.

31

Generally, your muscle density will dictate how much muscle you will retain at the end, assuming you can get to stage condition without tanking your hormones (a big if for first time show dieters). Plenty of newbies end up wrecking thyroid permanently with a contest diet (read CONTEST cut, not dieting down to 8% or whatever). Whats worse is the drop off in T. tread carefully here, bro and all the best

ANYWAY your visual “size” is not the same as how much muscle you kept (although that will always be the base), as you can look significantly bigger on stage at the SAME body composition depending mostly on your training, assuming you reload properly :slight_smile:

tangent: someone like paulie does indeed have significantly more LBM at the same height but his muscle density isn’t yet there (from the pictures he put up) and obviously he is pushing 20% body fat. if he waits it out and diets properly down to a reasonable level, he can then think of doing a contest cut. On the other hand, a contest diet will always be a bad idea for him given his hormonal disposition IMHO

32

Nevermind.

33

[quote]Rush88 wrote:
Nevermind.[/quote]

??? huh

34

i am very familiar with the “not as much lean mass as i thought” realization…

was 225, am now 180, with 5 weeks left to go… lol

35

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
i am very familiar with the “not as much lean mass as i thought” realization…

was 225, am now 180, with 5 weeks left to go… lol[/quote]

It’s startling…but, I bet you look great. Others around you probably think you are 20lbs heavier than your weight if you’re sufficiently lean!

36

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]Rush88 wrote:
Nevermind.[/quote]

??? huh[/quote]

Was going to ask something but then read the answer in the thread.

37

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

I guess I would be directing this question at either Lonnie or you, facko, and I hope you won’t regard it as my trolling or anything like that. If it’s deemed too off-topic, then feel free to just say so.

I guess I don’t understand you guys’ decision to compete at this stage. I’m using Lonnie as the template for my thinking because we’re the same height, but I just couldn’t imagine dieting down to less than 160lbs and feeling like I was a bodybuilder.

The two extremes are (i) the “compete today” mentality and (ii) the “wait until I’m ready” mentality. I understand that some may say “I’m not ready” forever, but for bodybuilding it seems like one should put in a number of years of quality and consistent training before competing.

I’m also curious regarding the pessimism for the ability of a natty to look muscular. I understand that Stu is now a professional, but people like Hungry4More and ebomb (no longer on the site) are huge natty dudes. I would even point to paulieserafini’s leaning out as a counterpoint to the notion that nattys are just inevitably tiny (though paulie has not dieted down, I would imagine that he would be more than 160lbs…). No offense to Lonnie, but I always feel like I read him using being a natty as an excuse to not progress above a certain bodyweight when I look at people like ebomb who never put those limitations on themselves and made awesome progress.

Dieting is addicting for some, and I guess actually competing at such an early stage seems like a great excuse to basically spend years spinning one’s wheels without making any serious progress in the weight room. I find myself wondering whether that’s really it: dieting is easier for you because you get the “instant results” that “bulking” doesn’t really provide (bloated at times, loss of leanness, etc.).

Is my head just stuck up my ass to feel this to be the case? It may well be, which is why I’m voicing the question to see what your response is. I guess I’m just interested to hear what really made you decide that competing was the right move for you instead of actually building a base. Sorry if the post offends: wasn’t my intention.
[/quote]

I have addressed this a few times, so I’ll keep this brief:

  • It is my personal belief that the natty lifter examples you cite are outliers. That is why they catch your eye in the first place. How many TRULY impressive natural lifters do you know, to the point where you could easily question whether or not they juice? I train at a “hard core” gym full of competitors… I can think of maybe 2 or 3 out of the 100+ members.

  • You seem to be under the impression that we have been training for a few months/a year and then competed. In my case I trained for 7 YEARS before I made the plunge, went from 150 pounds and bulked up to 237 because I thought more weight = more size. It doesn’t work that way.

  • In that regard, I dont use being natty as an excuse to go above a certain weight (again, I was nearly 240 at one point)…But you have to be realistic. As a natural lifter you know that OBVIOUSLY you are NEVER going to be 250lbs ripped, right? Well, what about 240? 230? 220? 200? I dont know what YOUR number is, but I bet MOST people fall into around 160-180 pounds STAGE lean, and 180-200 “walking around lean.”

How did I figure this out FOR ME? Simple, I actually did the work. I spent YEARS slowly gaining weight and getting stronger. Inevitably any time I get over 200 I start PILING on fat instead of muscle. Especially at any noticeable movement of the scale every week (the typical 1 pound per week is a losing game for me. Nearly ALL fat)

Don’t mean to hijack, but it is a contest prep thread and this kind of stuff is relevant in a way.

38

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
I have addressed this a few times, so I’ll keep this brief:

  • It is my personal belief that the natty lifter examples you cite are outliers. That is why they catch your eye in the first place. How many TRULY impressive natural lifters do you know, to the point where you could easily question whether or not they juice? I train at a “hard core” gym full of competitors… I can think of maybe 2 or 3 out of the 100+ members.

  • You seem to be under the impression that we have been training for a few months/a year and then competed. In my case I trained for 7 YEARS before I made the plunge, went from 150 pounds and bulked up to 237 because I thought more weight = more size. It doesn’t work that way.

  • In that regard, I dont use being natty as an excuse to go above a certain weight (again, I was nearly 240 at one point)…But you have to be realistic. As a natural lifter you know that OBVIOUSLY you are NEVER going to be 250lbs ripped, right? Well, what about 240? 230? 220? 200? I dont know what YOUR number is, but I bet MOST people fall into around 160-180 pounds STAGE lean, and 180-200 “walking around lean.”

How did I figure this out FOR ME? Simple, I actually did the work. I spent YEARS slowly gaining weight and getting stronger. Inevitably any time I get over 200 I start PILING on fat instead of muscle. Especially at any noticeable movement of the scale every week (the typical 1 pound per week is a losing game for me. Nearly ALL fat)

Don’t mean to hijack, but it is a contest prep thread and this kind of stuff is relevant in a way.
[/quote]

Nice info. Not sure if this type of info is available in one of the stickies, but if not some variation of it (with pics perhaps) should be IMO. Related discussions come up all the time.

39

nice thread
how accurate do you think macro calculations are at the end of the day? My thinking is that it won’t matter way too much (as you’re monitoring macros so you can make changes over the days/weeks) as long as they’re somewhat close, but I do know a lot of restaurants and some labels are very far off from reality.

40

Good work, I’ll be following