RIP Amanda Todd

Off Topic
41

[quote]ToTheTop_TTT wrote:
Guys why giving me shit so fast? I dont have bigger brother nor wanted to get my dad involved, but whatever this is not my story. I dont understand why you feel so pity for this girl… what about the teens in the hood. There you dont get “bullied” you get fucked up or directly killed.[/quote]

This is T Nation dude…

There aren’t any people from the hood here except me. Lol

They don’t give a fuck about the kid who is being forced to be a ruffle bag boy…only the girl who can’t seem to turn her PC off.

DUH

42

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]Cr Powerlinate wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
While Steven Pinker is dead wrong, of course our official understanding of primitve violence has changed.

Back in the old days, less people would have felt like a completely rejected loser when bullied.
Suicide simply didn’t occur to most bullying victims as an option.

Some of the reasons (and I’m not taking sides here, historically speaking):
-we actually put every pair of hands to more or less good use, so no one felt completely useless
-family was far more close
-an individual nowadays is suppsed to have unlimited potential for success and happiness
etc
[/quote]

Even British crime, which arguably has tailwinds from societal forces not deeply present in the United States, has broadly fallen as well since the 90s http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/Crime.jpg

T [/quote]

British crime has fallen?

It falls because people do not report it.

Rape, burglary, theft, battery and other violence goes un-reported because hardly anything happens and if it does get reported you face a long slog.

If you defend yourself you are arrested and charged with violent behaviour but it doesn’t reach court and thus its not a crime BUT there was a crime committed.

Does it make sense? Nope.

[/quote]

Do you have any proof for your contention? That sounds awfully like a sensationalist headline from the Daily Mail but I’m willing to read more information if you have proof. My general understanding is that the collection/reporting rate on crimes has only strengthened over the past few decades in almost every developed nation.

Anyway, yet another tidbit: http://madeinamericathebook.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/violence-stylized2.png?w=430&h=295 via A crime puzzle: Violent crime declines in America • The Berkeley Blog

43

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
While Steven Pinker is dead wrong, of course our official understanding of primitve violence has changed.

Back in the old days, less people would have felt like a completely rejected loser when bullied.
Suicide simply didn’t occur to most bullying victims as an option.

Some of the reasons (and I’m not taking sides here, historically speaking):
-we actually put every pair of hands to more or less good use, so no one felt completely useless
-family was far more close
-an individual nowadays is suppsed to have unlimited potential for success and happiness
etc
[/quote]
I recently started rereading Dave tate’s Under the bar. He was bullied pretty bad…made some different choices.

My Official stance in life: Down with the bullies. This Amanda Todd thing seems to be exploding. Its everywhere. She shouldnt have killed herself but it looks like she has created a lot more social awareness about bullying than most organizations do on their own.

/Derp

44

Very sad…clearly this is an issue that evokes a lot of very strong feelings in people.

The tough-nut in me thinks: C’mon kids, if someone hits you hit em back twice as hard! If someone gives you shit, you take a moment to consider how ridiculous/ignorant/weak/imbecillic your bully is & you use this to verbally poleaxe them!

Then, the big softy in me says: Not all kids can fight (physicallly or verbally), some kids perhaps have such low self-esteem they may actually believe they deserve the abuse they are suffering. They only way to signicantly reduce bullying is to: A) Make kids fully aware of the possible consequences & B) Teach kids, as well as possible how to avoid abuse & what to do about it when it occurs.

45

i think in fairness we need to post a thread of a fat girl that killed herself this month. i would hope for a guy to get a thread but i know that is unlikely

46

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]Cr Powerlinate wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
While Steven Pinker is dead wrong, of course our official understanding of primitve violence has changed.

Back in the old days, less people would have felt like a completely rejected loser when bullied.
Suicide simply didn’t occur to most bullying victims as an option.

Some of the reasons (and I’m not taking sides here, historically speaking):
-we actually put every pair of hands to more or less good use, so no one felt completely useless
-family was far more close
-an individual nowadays is suppsed to have unlimited potential for success and happiness
etc
[/quote]

Even British crime, which arguably has tailwinds from societal forces not deeply present in the United States, has broadly fallen as well since the 90s http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/Crime.jpg

T [/quote]

British crime has fallen?

It falls because people do not report it.

Rape, burglary, theft, battery and other violence goes un-reported because hardly anything happens and if it does get reported you face a long slog.

If you defend yourself you are arrested and charged with violent behaviour but it doesn’t reach court and thus its not a crime BUT there was a crime committed.

Does it make sense? Nope.

[/quote]

Dude, as much as you right about the fact that most victims don’t report, most major crime surveys do take into account both reported & unreported crimes.

47

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
Very sad…clearly this is an issue that evokes a lot of very strong feelings in people.

The tough-nut in me thinks: C’mon kids, if someone hits you hit em back twice as hard! If someone gives you shit, you take a moment to consider how ridiculous/ignorant/weak/imbecillic your bully is & you use this to verbally poleaxe them!

Then, the big softy in me says: Not all kids can fight (physicallly or verbally), some kids perhaps have such low self-esteem they may actually believe they deserve the abuse they are suffering. They only way to signicantly reduce bullying is to: A) Make kids fully aware of the possible consequences & B) Teach kids, as well as possible how to avoid abuse & what to do about it when it occurs.
[/quote]

Good, honest post.

48

[quote]Cr Powerlinate wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]Cr Powerlinate wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
While Steven Pinker is dead wrong, of course our official understanding of primitve violence has changed.

Back in the old days, less people would have felt like a completely rejected loser when bullied.
Suicide simply didn’t occur to most bullying victims as an option.

Some of the reasons (and I’m not taking sides here, historically speaking):
-we actually put every pair of hands to more or less good use, so no one felt completely useless
-family was far more close
-an individual nowadays is suppsed to have unlimited potential for success and happiness
etc
[/quote]

Even British crime, which arguably has tailwinds from societal forces not deeply present in the United States, has broadly fallen as well since the 90s http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/Crime.jpg

T [/quote]

British crime has fallen?

It falls because people do not report it.

Rape, burglary, theft, battery and other violence goes un-reported because hardly anything happens and if it does get reported you face a long slog.

If you defend yourself you are arrested and charged with violent behaviour but it doesn’t reach court and thus its not a crime BUT there was a crime committed.

Does it make sense? Nope.

[/quote]

Do you have any proof for your contention? That sounds awfully like a sensationalist headline from the Daily Mail but I’m willing to read more information if you have proof. My general understanding is that the collection/reporting rate on crimes has only strengthened over the past few decades in almost every developed nation.

Anyway, yet another tidbit: http://madeinamericathebook.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/violence-stylized2.png?w=430&h=295 via A crime puzzle: Violent crime declines in America • The Berkeley Blog

[/quote]

Evidence?

A family member was in the police force and quite en eye opener.

If the CPS does not see a case then it is dropped. Rape cases are notorious for this as well as physical abuse/battery.

Home owners defending themselves get arrested and thrown in prison, no charges there but no charges go to the burglars either. They dont tell the police because nothing gets done.

My dad had his van and garage broken into on two occasions and he did not bother to report the second incident because they did fuck all about it.

This is repeated up and down the land so dont tell me I need evidence, you cannot get that type of info via the government statistics.

49

Sooo who here on T Nation was (or still is) a bully?

I wouldn’t consider my past self an actual bully but me and my friends did pick on some of the outsiders in our class here and there. However, we were rather harmless I would say. Nobody really had a mean streak. Not like some of the shit we heard others do back then. Still I can imagine those kids didn’t like us very much.

Anyone?

50

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Sooo who here on T Nation was (or still is) a bully?

I wouldn’t consider my past self an actual bully but me and my friends did pick on some of the outsiders in our class here and there. However, we were rather harmless I would say. Nobody really had a mean streak. Not like some of the shit we heard others do back then. Still I can imagine those kids didn’t like us very much.

Anyone? [/quote]

You were a bully. To you it was no big deal so you don’t think of it that way. To your victims it was huge.

51

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Sooo who here on T Nation was (or still is) a bully?

I wouldn’t consider my past self an actual bully but me and my friends did pick on some of the outsiders in our class here and there. However, we were rather harmless I would say. Nobody really had a mean streak. Not like some of the shit we heard others do back then. Still I can imagine those kids didn’t like us very much.

Anyone? [/quote]

You were a bully. To you it was no big deal so you don’t think of it that way. To your victims it was huge.[/quote]

got bullied in highschool…I remember those people that were involved better than I remember anyone else from highschool. Good old Catholic highschool. It was like Chinese communism in there. I spent way too much time thinking of revenge plans for these people.

52

Mob mentality seemed to play into it a lot. The Amanda Todd story sounded like the kids had a mob mentality…no individual ‘responsibility’?

53

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Sooo who here on T Nation was (or still is) a bully?

I wouldn’t consider my past self an actual bully but me and my friends did pick on some of the outsiders in our class here and there. However, we were rather harmless I would say. Nobody really had a mean streak. Not like some of the shit we heard others do back then. Still I can imagine those kids didn’t like us very much.

Anyone? [/quote]

You were a bully. To you it was no big deal so you don’t think of it that way. To your victims it was huge.[/quote]

Yeah, I know that is typically the way bullies think. I still don’t think we were that bad (ha), primarily because we did stuff very infrequently. It wasn’t that they had to fear us on a daily basis or anything.

More victims than bullies on here, eh?

54

Funny bully story:

One day when I was probably about 13 or 14 I was walking across this field in the woods by my house. As I’m crossing, this younger kid who I picked on a bit, is crossing on the other end of the field. He’s too far away for me to bother chasing him but I can’t just pass by without doing anything so I pick up a rock and launch it.

As this rock is flying through the air I can read the kids mind. He’s thinking “if I just stand here without moving I’ll be fine. There’s no way he could hit me from that far so I just won’t move. Gee it looks like It’s coming right at me but no, there’s no way he could hit me from that far. Just don’t move, you’ll be fine. Damn, it really looks like it’s coming straight at my face. Just relax, Jon, just relax, all you have to do is stay put because there’s no way he could hit you from that far. Don’t move, don’t move don’t move” BAM! Right off his forehead.

A few years later he was arrested for flashing old ladies in the park. I’m going to hell.

55

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]Cr Powerlinate wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]Cr Powerlinate wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
While Steven Pinker is dead wrong, of course our official understanding of primitve violence has changed.

Back in the old days, less people would have felt like a completely rejected loser when bullied.
Suicide simply didn’t occur to most bullying victims as an option.

Some of the reasons (and I’m not taking sides here, historically speaking):
-we actually put every pair of hands to more or less good use, so no one felt completely useless
-family was far more close
-an individual nowadays is suppsed to have unlimited potential for success and happiness
etc
[/quote]

Even British crime, which arguably has tailwinds from societal forces not deeply present in the United States, has broadly fallen as well since the 90s http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/Crime.jpg

T [/quote]

British crime has fallen?

It falls because people do not report it.

Rape, burglary, theft, battery and other violence goes un-reported because hardly anything happens and if it does get reported you face a long slog.

If you defend yourself you are arrested and charged with violent behaviour but it doesn’t reach court and thus its not a crime BUT there was a crime committed.

Does it make sense? Nope.

[/quote]

Do you have any proof for your contention? That sounds awfully like a sensationalist headline from the Daily Mail but I’m willing to read more information if you have proof. My general understanding is that the collection/reporting rate on crimes has only strengthened over the past few decades in almost every developed nation.

Anyway, yet another tidbit: http://madeinamericathebook.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/violence-stylized2.png?w=430&h=295 via A crime puzzle: Violent crime declines in America • The Berkeley Blog

[/quote]

Evidence?

A family member was in the police force and quite en eye opener.

If the CPS does not see a case then it is dropped. Rape cases are notorious for this as well as physical abuse/battery.

Home owners defending themselves get arrested and thrown in prison, no charges there but no charges go to the burglars either. They dont tell the police because nothing gets done.

My dad had his van and garage broken into on two occasions and he did not bother to report the second incident because they did fuck all about it.

This is repeated up and down the land so dont tell me I need evidence, you cannot get that type of info via the government statistics.[/quote]

There are also loads of people who claim to have seen Bigfoot. Anecdotal evidence in and of itself isn’t sufficient.

Even if the models under-report crime reporting (which, as I indicated earlier, is likely not the case) there are statistical methods to correct for that. Even if the model doesn’t adjust for that element, there’s no evidence presented to suggest that this reporting ‘deficiency’ is a new phenomenon or one that has recently been exacerbated enough to influence the long term trend.

56

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Sooo who here on T Nation was (or still is) a bully?

I wouldn’t consider my past self an actual bully but me and my friends did pick on some of the outsiders in our class here and there. However, we were rather harmless I would say. Nobody really had a mean streak. Not like some of the shit we heard others do back then. Still I can imagine those kids didn’t like us very much.

Anyone? [/quote]

You were a bully. To you it was no big deal so you don’t think of it that way. To your victims it was huge.[/quote]

Yeah, I know that is typically the way bullies think. I still don’t think we were that bad (ha), primarily because we did stuff very infrequently. It wasn’t that they had to fear us on a daily basis or anything.

More victims than bullies on here, eh?[/quote]

Bullying is not really just about the physical violence. Sometimes the worst kind of bullying is where no one is hurt physically at all. Back when I was a student, I was very isolated from my classmates, mainly because of my age. I would always sit alone and no one ever talked to me except when they wanted my help on classwork. They would be nice to me so that I would help them or let them copy my work and then I would be alone again. They tended to be smart about it too. They would have a pretty girl come up to me and be nice and then after she got all of my answers, everyone would copy hers and then not even bother to look at me until the next assignment was due. I knew they were using me, but I still went along with it anyway because it was better then nothing. I am sure none of them thought they were “bullies” or that they were doing anything really hurtful since they didn’t beat me up or anything but it was.

57

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Sooo who here on T Nation was (or still is) a bully?

I wouldn’t consider my past self an actual bully but me and my friends did pick on some of the outsiders in our class here and there. However, we were rather harmless I would say. Nobody really had a mean streak. Not like some of the shit we heard others do back then. Still I can imagine those kids didn’t like us very much.

Anyone? [/quote]

You were a bully. To you it was no big deal so you don’t think of it that way. To your victims it was huge.[/quote]

Yeah, I know that is typically the way bullies think. I still don’t think we were that bad (ha), primarily because we did stuff very infrequently. It wasn’t that they had to fear us on a daily basis or anything.

More victims than bullies on here, eh?[/quote]

Bullying is not really just about the physical violence. Sometimes the worst kind of bullying is where no one is hurt physically at all. Back when I was a student, I was very isolated from my classmates, mainly because of my age. I would always sit alone and no one ever talked to me except when they wanted my help on classwork. They would be nice to me so that I would help them or let them copy my work and then I would be alone again. They tended to be smart about it too. They would have a pretty girl come up to me and be nice and then after she got all of my answers, everyone would copy hers and then not even bother to look at me until the next assignment was due. I knew they were using me, but I still went along with it anyway because it was better then nothing. I am sure none of them thought they were “bullies” or that they were doing anything really hurtful since they didn’t beat me up or anything but it was.
[/quote]

I don’t know Matt, I wouldn’t call that bullying. I agree it doesn’t have to be physical but there does need to be some kind of intimidation or belittlement. I’m not sure they were actively ostracizing you, you were ostracized by the circumstance.

58

I was a bully through junior high. My dad would beat the shit out of me and I’d go to school and take it out on other kids. I was a complete asshole. It’s weird. I’m now facebook friends with some of the people I preyed on. I’ve apologized to a few, no one has held a big grudge, but I stil feel like shit for some of the stuff I did.

59

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Sooo who here on T Nation was (or still is) a bully?

I wouldn’t consider my past self an actual bully but me and my friends did pick on some of the outsiders in our class here and there. However, we were rather harmless I would say. Nobody really had a mean streak. Not like some of the shit we heard others do back then. Still I can imagine those kids didn’t like us very much.

Anyone? [/quote]

You were a bully. To you it was no big deal so you don’t think of it that way. To your victims it was huge.[/quote]

Yeah, I know that is typically the way bullies think. I still don’t think we were that bad (ha), primarily because we did stuff very infrequently. It wasn’t that they had to fear us on a daily basis or anything.

More victims than bullies on here, eh?[/quote]

Bullying is not really just about the physical violence. Sometimes the worst kind of bullying is where no one is hurt physically at all. Back when I was a student, I was very isolated from my classmates, mainly because of my age. I would always sit alone and no one ever talked to me except when they wanted my help on classwork. They would be nice to me so that I would help them or let them copy my work and then I would be alone again. They tended to be smart about it too. They would have a pretty girl come up to me and be nice and then after she got all of my answers, everyone would copy hers and then not even bother to look at me until the next assignment was due. I knew they were using me, but I still went along with it anyway because it was better then nothing. I am sure none of them thought they were “bullies” or that they were doing anything really hurtful since they didn’t beat me up or anything but it was.
[/quote]

I don’t know Matt, I wouldn’t call that bullying. I agree it doesn’t have to be physical but there does need to be some kind of intimidation or belittlement. I’m not sure they were actively ostracizing you, you were ostracized by the circumstance.
[/quote]

I know, and I agree for the most part. I do consider using me to do their homework for them deliberate and harmful, which could be considered bullying, but I just think of it as mean. It seems to me, especially from the comments about Amanda, that a lot of people these days equate any kind of not being accepted by others with bullying. I was an outcast from my classmates because of my age and I was an outcast from my age group at the time because of my intellect (I am not trying to sound conceited with that phrase). It was no one’s fault, although using my loneliness to get me to help with their classwork was messed up. After watching Amanda’s video, it seems to me that she was not really bullied at all, except by that weirdo that she flashed, but that was only a couple of times. She made some bad decisions and was made an outcast because of them, which is what I think led to her suicide. The beating was not bullying, she knew that kid had a girlfriend when she slept with him so that is to be expected. That does not mean that her classmates are devoid of responsibility for her suicide. It would not have been too much for some of them to just be nice to her and try to be friends without trying to get something from her. She was cute enough that I am sure that once those pics were shown a lot of the boys at her school tried to sleep with her. A lot of them probably succeeded. It may of meant the difference between life and death for this girl.

60

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
So tragic.

A little bit too late to help now that she’s dead, uh?

But I hope her father finds those responsible and sticks a gun up their asses and tears them holes wide open. Motherfuckers.

[/quote]

That will teach bullies not to behave badly won’t it? Use your head.[/quote]

They will no longer be bullies since they’ll be fucking dead. Use your BIG brain.