Rioting in St. Lou

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Undoubtedly, true. I loaded the officer’s gun and drugged the black guy so he’d rob a store and then attack a cop.

I also personally caused the death of the McRib sandwich.

In seriousness, for whatever reason there is an axis of radical blacks, the IRA (really), various Muslim terrorist groups (Hamas, ISIS, the PLO, whatever it is at the time), and the usual crappy countries (North Korea, Iran, whatever) that celebrate this kind of thing and blame Jews for basically everything.

[/quote]

RE the IRA: It was a bit more complicated than that. Long story short, after the signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921 there was a civil war between pro-treaty forces and anti-treaty forces. The IRA’s political arm(Sinn Fein) split with Eamon de Valera forming Fianna Fail. Fianna Fail were right-wing nationalists(they’re still the “conservative” party today) - many fought in the Spanish Civil War for the nationalists.

The IRA however was divided - from the mid-30’s onwards they drifted left but also sought an alliance with Nazi Germany. After WWII they drifted right again until the late 60’s. During the troubles they allied themselves with many international left-wing groups including the PLO. They trained in the Beqaa Valley. Since the IRA officially disbanded in 1997 the remnants have been pretty much exclusively involved in organised crime - stand overs, drug dealing, extortion, prostitution, armed robberies etc.

Historically Ireland was pretty much the only country in Europe that never experienced anti-Semitism but not so today - it’s a radicalised shithole like much of the rest of Europe.[/quote]

True for all but the last part. Interestingly, there was special recognition of the Jewish population in our 1923 Constitution. We removed it in 1937, but we have been explicitly protective of it since.
That said, since the EU and the crony left got their claws into us, everything has gotten steadily worse over time. We have our share of barely functional university students flying PLO flags, like everyone else, but to call Ireland a radicalised shithole is a bit of a stretch.
(Your assessment of the current state of the IRA is, however, spot on.)

Up until very recently, I would have been proud of my country’s record on the Jewish peoples, but our current ambassadors in the media/ academia do us no favours.[/quote]

Thank you for the background. For the life of me, I couldn’t see a link between the radical parts of the IRA and PLO, any more than I could see any sort of logical link between the PLO and La Raza.

Perhaps assholes all just like each other.

As an aside, my very ginger-Irish law partner (with red beard, black suit, and hat because he is bald and gets skin cancer on his head) gets mistaken as Jewish all the time. I joke we pollinated Ireland after the English kicked out all the Jews in 1290. He always looks a little worried about that.

FWIW, I am as tall or taller than Big Mike, albeit not 300lbs, close.

I have had guns drawn on me multiple times by cops on routine crap like going 75 in a 65 on the highway, while being clean cut (still the bad Army haircut – I like it), driving a nice truck without a bunch of crap in it, in a clean button down shirt, and having license, registration, insurance, etc, ready-to-go, my hands with said license and registration/insurance visible and out the driver’s window.

So, while I have zero idea what happened here, I do think cops are very prone to leaping to deadly force when dealing with guys who could kick their ass in a fair fight.

Add a bad neighborhood, bad attitude, and dressing like an idiot, I’m sure I’d have gotten shot sometime in the past.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Undoubtedly, true. I loaded the officer’s gun and drugged the black guy so he’d rob a store and then attack a cop.

I also personally caused the death of the McRib sandwich.

In seriousness, for whatever reason there is an axis of radical blacks, the IRA (really), various Muslim terrorist groups (Hamas, ISIS, the PLO, whatever it is at the time), and the usual crappy countries (North Korea, Iran, whatever) that celebrate this kind of thing and blame Jews for basically everything.

[/quote]

RE the IRA: It was a bit more complicated than that. Long story short, after the signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921 there was a civil war between pro-treaty forces and anti-treaty forces. The IRA’s political arm(Sinn Fein) split with Eamon de Valera forming Fianna Fail. Fianna Fail were right-wing nationalists(they’re still the “conservative” party today) - many fought in the Spanish Civil War for the nationalists.

The IRA however was divided - from the mid-30’s onwards they drifted left but also sought an alliance with Nazi Germany. After WWII they drifted right again until the late 60’s. During the troubles they allied themselves with many international left-wing groups including the PLO. They trained in the Beqaa Valley. Since the IRA officially disbanded in 1997 the remnants have been pretty much exclusively involved in organised crime - stand overs, drug dealing, extortion, prostitution, armed robberies etc.

Historically Ireland was pretty much the only country in Europe that never experienced anti-Semitism but not so today - it’s a radicalised shithole like much of the rest of Europe.[/quote]

True for all but the last part. Interestingly, there was special recognition of the Jewish population in our 1923 Constitution. We removed it in 1937, but we have been explicitly protective of it since.
That said, since the EU and the crony left got their claws into us, everything has gotten steadily worse over time. We have our share of barely functional university students flying PLO flags, like everyone else, but to call Ireland a radicalised shithole is a bit of a stretch.
(Your assessment of the current state of the IRA is, however, spot on.)

Up until very recently, I would have been proud of my country’s record on the Jewish peoples, but our current ambassadors in the media/ academia do us no favours.[/quote]

Thank you for the background. For the life of me, I couldn’t see a link between the radical parts of the IRA and PLO, any more than I could see any sort of logical link between the PLO and La Raza.

Perhaps assholes all just like each other.

As an aside, my very ginger-Irish law partner (with red beard, black suit, and hat because he is bald and gets skin cancer on his head) gets mistaken as Jewish all the time. I joke we pollinated Ireland after the English kicked out all the Jews in 1290. He always looks a little worried about that.[/quote]

LOL, all the men in my family have a pronounced nose and a love of business, so maybe there is something to your theory.
As for the IRA, they were quite happy to offer their ideological partnership to any who asked (and were remotely anti-British.) They took weapons from Gaddaffi, for fuck’s sake.
I despair that they still have any supporters left.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
CNN reporting the cop had no broken face bones. Only a swollen face.[/quote]

Interesting… sources for this besides CNN.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You are one lowlife piece of scum if someone in your neighborhood gets wrongfully killed and your reaction is, “Yee ha! I’m gonna go git me a free TV!”[/quote]
[/quote]

White peoples response when unarmed black people are shot and killed is reliably hilarious, kind of like a league of gentlemen skit.

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
White peoples response when unarmed black people are shot and killed is reliably hilarious, kind of like a league of gentlemen skit. [/quote]

Where are you from? You never answered that question in the beheading thread!

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Thank you for the background. For the life of me, I couldn’t see a link between the radical parts of the IRA and PLO, any more than I could see any sort of logical link between the PLO and La Raza.

Perhaps assholes all just like each other.
[/quote]

They are all anti-colonialist. Simple.

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Thank you for the background. For the life of me, I couldn’t see a link between the radical parts of the IRA and PLO, any more than I could see any sort of logical link between the PLO and La Raza.

Perhaps assholes all just like each other.
[/quote]

They are all anti-colonialist. Simple. [/quote]

Are you talking about the provos who split from the officials in 1969? The contos and the INLA were irrelevant for most of the troubles so I take it you are.

They had/have links with FARC EP, with ETA, with other national liberation terrorist groups. They might of been self described as a national liberation movement with the declared goals of a 32 county socialist republic but in reality they were sectarian catholics who were engaged in a nationalist war, the committed numerous atrocities, such as Enniskillen and the famous time they gunned down a sole lot of protestant workers on the bus home from work.

This puts them on the same level as the British Army for such atrocities as bloody sunday, numerous acts of collusion and show band massacre etc.

They basically hijacked a peaceful civil rights movement that had both protestant and and catholics marching in the streets emulating the civil rights movement of America.

The newer groups like CIRA, RIRA and OHN are mainly right wing, catholic and anti immigration. They have links to rights wing groups and they are generally thought of as scum by most people in the communities. After the Omagh bomb which killed 30 civilians, they went deep underground.

They are also so infiltrated by the British security forces now it is laughable. After their latest killing of soldiers a few years ago in 2009 I think, there were huge protestants by both communities together, since then the groups have pretty much kept their heads down for the most part.

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
White peoples response when unarmed black people are shot and killed is reliably hilarious, kind of like a league of gentlemen skit. [/quote]

Dude you are one trolling piece of work. If you had read the whole thread you would know that the dead kids friend lied in his statement and has since recanted.

All shots were to the front of Brown, none in the back.

Kid strong armed a liquor store and assaulted the owner just before the shooting.

Kid ASSAULTED the cop and tried to take his gun…backed up by multiple eye witnesses.

Seriously…go FUCKING TROLL ANOTHER FORUM.

Or just tell us who your other account is, so we can all share in the LULZ.

[quote]Dr J wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Well, but that’s the thing. Their initial reactions are directly responsible for a very, very large chunk of the current mess. If they had been able to handle it better the protests, in my opinion, would likely not have escalated near this far. At least not this fast.[/quote]

I disagree. I think the escalation had FAR more to do with irresponsible media coverage basically asserting as fact that an unarmed teen was “gunned down” while trying to peacefully surrender. Normally, when a crime is reported and facts are still being gathered words like “allegedly” and “according to so-and-so” are used. None of that seemed to happen here. There was an instant narrative, again basically asserted as fact, that a heinous act was perpetrated by this cop.[/quote]

Who knows, perhaps you are right. On the other hand all my ire here has been directed at inappropriate militarization and abuse . I didn’t comment on the shooting and at least among the people I’m with that’s pretty much our story. I dont doubt it’s different for the Ferguson people and others.

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
White peoples response when unarmed black people are shot and killed is reliably hilarious, kind of like a league of gentlemen skit. [/quote]

I’m not necessarily white (depends on who you ask, I don’t claim it) and my response is the media has caused a frenzy that contributes to division in the USA. Sure, there will be a certain sub-set of white people who are reliably racist when incidents like this occur. There will also be a sub-set of whites that reliably believe white people are inherently evil when incidents like this occur. There will also be a sub-set of blacks who think the overall goal of white people is to kill black men.

There’s a sub-set of every type of people and some of the loudest shouting for Wilson’s head are white liberals. Ever here of the Huffington Post? I can flip you’re statement around and say, “Black peoples response when black people face the consequences of attacking an officer is to loot non-black minority owned small businesses, kind of like an N.W.A. video from the late 80s” but that would make me an asshole so I don’t say shit like that.

I don’t think the “white response” on this forum is reliably hilarious. The majority thinking here is that the media is providing biased and unfair coverage that is promoting a counterproductive frenzy. A black Attorney General is involved in the case and he has deployed literally dozens of FBI agents to investigate the case. When there is clear evidence that Michael Brown was unlawfully murdered in cold blood then my opinion will change. Right now it looks like all the initial reports were horseshit.

I’m not sorry for wanting evidence and a thorough investigation before Wilson is crucified and condemned by the public and legal system. I would want the same afforded to me. There are an alarming number of people who think he doesn’t deserve a fair investigation and that is un-American. We’re not Iran or North Korea where the government can decide to punish and execute anyone it wants to without due process.

http://threepercenternation.com/2014/08/video-what-this-young-black-man-did-while-the-looting-in-ferguson-is-unbelievable/

Interesting. Apparently he is required to think a certain way…

Interesting I thought:

[i]CNN Source: Darren Wilson Did Have Swollen Face, but Did Not Have Orbital Fracture

?Ace

This source conflicts with Fox’s (and originally Jim Hoft’s).

This source, speaking on background, is no more authoritative than Fox’s or Hoft’s.

However, it should be noted that there is a conflicting report, and people who claim to have insider information are flatly disagreeing on the point, so as of now it’s not a “fact” (either way) that can be relied on.*

I should say that Don Lemon seems to speak variously of a “broken or torn eye socket” and “fractured eye socket” as if these are the same injury, and that by denying one the other is denied.

I never heard anything about a “torn eye socket.” I heard fractured eye socket. I’m not sure why he’s talking about rebutting a rumor about a “torn eye socket.”

Are these different ways to describe the same injury? I don’t know. I have to say that to me it sounds like Don Lemon doesn’t really know what he’s talking about.**

Let me just point something out:

Every time we have one of these stories – these sort of grabby, dramatic, daily-revelations stories – there’s some pressure from some internet commentators to accept a series of claimed facts, all of which tend to support their conclusion.

And when people resist being pressured into accepting “facts” which are not yet facts, there’s a suggestion that they’re “not on the team.”

For example, someone sockpupptted AllahPundit hear yesterday, calling him something like “AllahPundit, Family Lawyer for the Brown Family,” or that kind of thing.

I assume this silly attack was made because AllahPundit was not rushing to embrace, and to declare as proven true, “facts” which are not yet facts at all, but merely claims.

In politics, we can argue about political theory, and we can pressure each other into accepting our preferred theories and doctrines and such, but we cannot take these same approaches and apply them to facts.

If you convince enough people to support your political theory, you will win, politically, on your political theory. It will become governing policy.

On the other hand, if you convince people to accept claims as “facts,” this does not actually convert claims into facts. It just convinces people that something is true which is not necessarily true.

Convincing people that false things are facts does not make them facts – except, perhaps, to the most cynical operator who dismisses any sense that the actual truth should actually sometimes count. (Moral relativism, anyone?)

And if it later should turn out that these claimed “facts” are false, what then?

Do we say, as the left does, “Well the facts don’t matter anyway”?

There is no point in trying to pressure people into proclaiming mere claims to be “facts,” nor insinuating that people who prefer an empirical to an ideological method of determining the facts are somehow “weak” and perhaps even “subversive.”

When things are actually revealed to be facts, it takes relatively little persuasion to convince a fair-minded, non-ideologically-committed person to accept them as facts.

All this nonsense that goes on on the internet, this pressure to accept someone’s rumor, claim, or supposition as a “fact,” is so thoroughly anti-reasoning I can’t even properly express my objections to it.

Opinions are opinions. Guesses at the likelihood of an eventuality are guesses at the likelihood of an eventuality. Gut hunches are gut hunches.

All of these things are properly used in discussing a matter like Ferguson. Gut hunches have their place in every single political discussion (and virtually every other discussion as well).

But what is out-of-bounds is this ridiculous insistence that if we “just get all on board in claiming that non-facts are facts, then we can ‘shape the narrative’ and get people to believe that non-facts are facts, and then we win!”

Well, you may win, temporarily, unless those non-facts you’ve insisted to be facts turn out to not be facts.

Then you just look like a bloviating jackass who believes in whatever claim is necessary to support his predetermined, ideologically-divined conclusion.

It is not “ideologically weak” to confess you don’t know what you don’t know – except, possibly, to an idiot or a thug.

Again let me be clear: I have no problem with someone saying, for example, “Based on Don Lemon’s strange terminology, he doesn’t sound like he knows what he’s talking about, and for now, I’m going with Fox and Hoft.”

That’s a perfectly reasonable position to take. (I know it’s reasonable, because, at least at the moment, it’s my position, and I know that Everything I Think must be Perfectly Reasonable.)

But this sort angry “GET ON OUR SIDE!” lobbying for the facts, this emotional pressure to accept one’s emotions as facts (akin to Don Lemon’s "I feel, in my heart, that semi-automatics are automatics), as if facts could be lobbied this way or the other, as if facts could be Freeped in an online poll, as if we could elect facts the way we elect politicians in a political campaign, is just stupid.

  • Except, of course, that we seem to have further confirmation that Wilson was in fact injured from the encounter, which tends to prove that he was in fact punched in the face, just as he is rumored to have claimed.

** Lemon also says “X-rays” were negative for “a torn or broken eye socket.”

But a commenter told me yesterday that my own use of “X-ray” in this context was wrong – he told me you wouldn’t use an X-ray to detect this sort of injury, but instead a CT scanner.

I think maybe because we’re actually talking about damage to soft tissue rather than bone?

I don’t know if that commenter is right, but a quick search does seem to indicate that we’re talking about soft tissue damage and hence an “X-ray” would not be a useful diagnostic tool.

Burying the Lead? Lemon is in such a rush to dispute Fox he sort of forgets that his own source confirms the headline information – that Wilson was in fact beaten badly before the shooting.

What’s Lemon’s position? That only a torn eye socket counts as legitmatizing the use of force? That if you just bust someone’s head up a bit – without tearing the eye socket – you get to run away unmolested by police?[/i]

ABC news has discovered that key witness Dorian Johnson was charged for filing a false police report back in 2011.

He also has a warrant out for his arrest for stealing in Jefferson City.

http://www.abc17news.com/news/key-witness-in-ferguson-wanted-in-jefferson-city/27624066

Didn’t a black cop just gun down and kill an un-armed white man in Utah???

Heard of it?