Rioting in St. Lou

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Back on topic to Ferguson.

Where’s the perjury charge against Michael Brown’s friend Dorian Johnson? He obviously LIED to police saying that the “gentle giant” had his hands up.

If the Ferguson PD had been receiving threats, where’s the FBI investigation? Where are the criminal charges against the people threatening the police department?

Why did the police threaten to arrest the OATH KEEPERS? They were defending the rooftops of the stores that were being targeted by looters, AS IS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT? On Rooftops of Ferguson, Volunteers Patrol, With Guns - The New York Times

So you let the rioters destroy the town, and you threaten to arrest the citizens who want to DEFEND the down? What fucking planet are we on?[/quote]

I am sure they don’t want to stir the pot anymore, therefore no charges.

Not sure why the police are threatening arrest of the Oath Keepers. I saw the article too and wondered the same thing. If it gives the property / business owners comfort knowing that the Oath Keepers are keeping an eye on them, then I say more power to them. I also read that this particular militia has numerous military, ems, and active police amongst their ranks. Can’t believe Ferguson PD would want to tackle this issue right now. A lot of departments have been down this road already and have lost. Their energy can be better spent elsewhere at the moment.

Yeah, that image is fake

New task force. More money spent. Will it make a difference?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hold-white-house-meetings-ferguson-085841383--politics.html

Body worn cameras are going to be much more prevalent in the future of policing. They are in the cars and on the tasers. Police executives say it is the way of the future. I am fine with that. I think being able to produce a complete video of a decision that had to be made in a dynamic situation in a split second is a benefit for all. The public can see the whole story. The cops can write a better report and testify to that report.

As a tax payer I would like to see all politicians wearing them. Anytime they are on the clock or spending government money so we can see what they are doing on are behalf. I am curious about some of the behind the scenes decisions made before and during the riots. Maybe the people receiving welfare could wear them too. Show us how they spend the money they receive. How they spend their time job hunting.

I have a feeling the second paragraph may sound like violating some rights related to privacy. It may also be a security issue. Top secret subjects in meetings come to mind. In general I think if you are doing your job correctly there is not much to fear from the camera.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
New task force. More money spent. Will it make a difference?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hold-white-house-meetings-ferguson-085841383--politics.html

[/quote]

I’m pretty confident that if Wilson had been wearing a body camera, the story would have been, “Teen assaults cop, gets shot.” None of us would know either of their names. The Brown family could mourn the loss of their son with the understanding that his death was predominantly or entirely his own doing, and Wilson would probably still have a job. So I am definitely alright with those.

I also think its a good idea to look into “militarization” and its effects. E.g., the baby who is now disfigured because of a flash grenade fired into an apartment in order to bust an alleged low-level drug dealer.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
New task force. More money spent. Will it make a difference?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hold-white-house-meetings-ferguson-085841383--politics.html

[/quote]

I’m pretty confident that if Wilson had been wearing a body camera, the story would have been, “Teen assaults cop, gets shot.” None of us would know either of their names. The Brown family could mourn the loss of their son with the understanding that his death was predominantly or entirely his own doing, and Wilson would probably still have a job. So I am definitely alright with those.

I also think its a good idea to look into “militarization” and its effects. E.g., the baby who is now disfigured because of a flash grenade fired into an apartment in order to bust an alleged low-level drug dealer.[/quote]

Yep.[/quote]

The only thing I’ll add is, there is a very high likelihood Wilson would have resigned anyway.

A lot of police can’t come back to work after an incident like this. They are humans too, and he took a life. I’m sure he is second guessing himself like any rational person would.

Black’s helping to protect white-owned businesses, white’s helping to protect Black-owned businesses…this can’t be good for the race-baiters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/26/us-usa-missouri-shooting-gasstation-idUSKCN0JA1XF20141126

FERGUSON, MO. (Reuters) - Since looting first erupted following the August police shooting of black teenager Michael Brown, nearly all the businesses in a 2 square mile area of this St Louis suburb have had to board up. One exception - a Conoco gas station and convenience store.

At least a dozen stores have been set ablaze and others looted in Ferguson in racially charged riots since a grand jury on Monday cleared white policeman Darren Wilson in the shooting, which has torn apart this predominantly black Missouri city.

The unrest surrounding Brown’s death has underscored the often-tense nature of U.S. race relations. But the gas station has stood out as a beacon, literally and figuratively, as nightfall has descended and chaos has reigned around it.

On Tuesday night, as police and soldiers took up positions in the parking lots of virtually every strip mall and big box store around it, the forecourt of the brightly lit gas station was busy with customers.

One, a six feet, eight-inch tall man named Derrick Jordan ? ?Stretch,? as friends call him - whisked an AR-15 assault rifle out from a pickup truck parked near the entrance.

Jordan, 37, was one of four black Ferguson residents who spent Tuesday night planted in front of the store, pistols tucked into their waistbands, waiting to ward off looters or catch shoplifters.

Jordan and the others guarding the gas station are all black. The station’s owner is white.

Ferguson has seen a stark demographic shift in recent decades, going from all white to mostly black. About two-thirds of the town’s 21,000-strong population are black. By some accounts, the Brown shooting has heightened racial tensions in the city. But not at the gas station.

"We would have been burned to the ground many times over if it weren?t for them,? said gas station owner Doug Merello, whose father first bought it in 1984.

Merello said he feels deep ties to Ferguson, and if the loyalty of some of his regular customers is any indication, the feeling is mutual.

REPAYING A DEBT

At times, Jordan and his friends were joined on Tuesday night by other men from the neighborhood, also armed. None of the men was getting paid to be there. They said they felt they owed it to Merello, who has employed many of them over the years and treats them with respect.

“He?s a nice dude, he?s helped us a lot,” said a 29 year old who identified himself as R.J. He said he, like the other volunteers, had lived a short distance away from the store for most of his life.

He carried a Taurus 9mm pistol in his sweatpants and drew it out to show another customer, an older man at a pump who was brandishing a MAC-10 machine pistol.

Missouri allows the open carrying of firearms. State lawmakers recently passed a law overriding any local ordinance that banned the open carry of firearms by people who have concealed weapons permits.

R.J. said on Monday they chased away several groups of teenagers rampaging through the area.

But they have also had a close brush with soldiers from the Missouri National Guard, who mistook them for looters, he said. The guardsmen, rifles raised, had handcuffed one man before Merello came outside the store to explain that the residents were trying to help, not hurt.

While the volunteer guards talked, a white SUV pulled up and a thin young man sauntered into the store. A few moments later, there was a commotion. Merello frogmarched the man out the store.

One of the armed residents, Sean Turner, showed the .40 caliber pistol in his jacket and told the man, “This is what happens if you try to steal from this place.”

^Love it

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
New task force. More money spent. Will it make a difference?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hold-white-house-meetings-ferguson-085841383--politics.html

[/quote]

I’m pretty confident that if Wilson had been wearing a body camera, the story would have been, “Teen assaults cop, gets shot.” None of us would know either of their names. The Brown family could mourn the loss of their son with the understanding that his death was predominantly or entirely his own doing, and Wilson would probably still have a job. So I am definitely alright with those.

I also think its a good idea to look into “militarization” and its effects. E.g., the baby who is now disfigured because of a flash grenade fired into an apartment in order to bust an alleged low-level drug dealer.[/quote]

Yep.[/quote]

I am for this, I heard it comes to like 300 million to have every police department outfitted with cameras.

However, I feel like we’re in such a militarized phase when it comes to the local police, that I fear it wont matter in certain situations.

Anyone remember the video of the officer breaking a drivers car window because she wouldn’t roll it down? I brought up my issues then, and again I’ll say we’re at a sad time when Police who are being videotaped don’t care.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
^Love it[/quote]

Yeah… I posted that a few days ago on my facebook…It really shows you what a little respect and kindness can do. And man, i respect that.

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
New task force. More money spent. Will it make a difference?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hold-white-house-meetings-ferguson-085841383--politics.html

[/quote]

I’m pretty confident that if Wilson had been wearing a body camera, the story would have been, “Teen assaults cop, gets shot.” None of us would know either of their names. The Brown family could mourn the loss of their son with the understanding that his death was predominantly or entirely his own doing, and Wilson would probably still have a job. So I am definitely alright with those.

I also think its a good idea to look into “militarization” and its effects. E.g., the baby who is now disfigured because of a flash grenade fired into an apartment in order to bust an alleged low-level drug dealer.[/quote]

Yeah. I agree, and I’ve long been in favor of cops having body cameras. The places it’s been tried it’s lead to a marked decrease in both complaints and physical force so it’s a winner in my book.

I really hate that Obama had to drive this task force up. I agree with largely the items that are on the list but for some reason I really can’t get over my dislike of him in this case. It is probably because of precedent regarding race/kids/grandstanding (ahem dragging kids on stage after school shooting, the professor incident with the local police a few years ago).

Still, good. A move I finally agree with.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
New task force. More money spent. Will it make a difference?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hold-white-house-meetings-ferguson-085841383--politics.html

[/quote]

I’m pretty confident that if Wilson had been wearing a body camera, the story would have been, “Teen assaults cop, gets shot.” None of us would know either of their names. The Brown family could mourn the loss of their son with the understanding that his death was predominantly or entirely his own doing, and Wilson would probably still have a job. So I am definitely alright with those.

I also think its a good idea to look into “militarization” and its effects. E.g., the baby who is now disfigured because of a flash grenade fired into an apartment in order to bust an alleged low-level drug dealer.[/quote]

Yeah. I agree, and I’ve long been in favor of cops having body cameras. The places it’s been tried it’s lead to a marked decrease in both complaints and physical force so it’s a winner in my book.

I really hate that Obama had to drive this task force up. I agree with largely the items that are on the list but for some reason I really can’t get over my dislike of him in this case. It is probably because of precedent regarding race/kids/grandstanding (ahem dragging kids on stage after school shooting, the professor incident with the local police a few years ago).

Still, good. A move I finally agree with.[/quote]

In Dallas a while back they had cameras on all squad cars. They cameras helped establish liability in a few civil rights cases and so they pulled them all out. Again, this was in the 90s, and I am not sure what the current policy is, but I’m in favor of cameras for the reasons you listed.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

I really hate that Obama had to drive this task force up. [/quote]

Ehh, I’m fine with it, and actually thankful there is something he is for that I’m able to support.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day… He can’t fuck up everything.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

I really hate that Obama had to drive this task force up. [/quote]

Ehh, I’m fine with it, and actually thankful there is something he is for that I’m able to support.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day… He can’t fuck up everything. [/quote]

No, I agree. I like that there’s something that he’s doing that is useful. I try very hard to give credit on any party line where credit is due. He’s done so many things in a row that I disagree with though that it’s kind of a “fighting your instinct to oppose” thing–but then that is what makes thinking people different from straight ticket people and that is both necessary and laudable.

I really do disagree though with how he’s handled relations to this point in many instances (ahem trayvon, etc). Sending representatives to Browns funeral without regard to the facts of the case…etc. etc. etc. I think these things are below the station of POTUS as well as being a terrible way to lead by example. But as long as something good comes out of it, well…

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
New task force. More money spent. Will it make a difference?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hold-white-house-meetings-ferguson-085841383--politics.html

[/quote]

I’m pretty confident that if Wilson had been wearing a body camera, the story would have been, “Teen assaults cop, gets shot.” None of us would know either of their names. The Brown family could mourn the loss of their son with the understanding that his death was predominantly or entirely his own doing, and Wilson would probably still have a job. So I am definitely alright with those.

I also think its a good idea to look into “militarization” and its effects. E.g., the baby who is now disfigured because of a flash grenade fired into an apartment in order to bust an alleged low-level drug dealer.[/quote]

Yeah. I agree, and I’ve long been in favor of cops having body cameras. The places it’s been tried it’s lead to a marked decrease in both complaints and physical force so it’s a winner in my book.

I really hate that Obama had to drive this task force up. I agree with largely the items that are on the list but for some reason I really can’t get over my dislike of him in this case. It is probably because of precedent regarding race/kids/grandstanding (ahem dragging kids on stage after school shooting, the professor incident with the local police a few years ago).

Still, good. A move I finally agree with.[/quote]

In Dallas a while back they had cameras on all squad cars. They cameras helped establish liability in a few civil rights cases and so they pulled them all out. Again, this was in the 90s, and I am not sure what the current policy is, but I’m in favor of cameras for the reasons you listed.

[/quote]

I can think of few things that make more sense than recording, for purposes of restraint as well as of post-incident reference, the dealings of a group of government representatives whose interactions with the public involve loaded firearms.

As for Aragorn’s post–well, my friend, even W. Bush did a few things that didn’t make me want to beat small animals with ball-peen hammers. If nobody is perfect, nobody is perfectly objectionable.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

I really hate that Obama had to drive this task force up. [/quote]

Ehh, I’m fine with it, and actually thankful there is something he is for that I’m able to support.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day… He can’t fuck up everything. [/quote]

See if you still say that two years from now.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
New task force. More money spent. Will it make a difference?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hold-white-house-meetings-ferguson-085841383--politics.html

[/quote]

I’m pretty confident that if Wilson had been wearing a body camera, the story would have been, “Teen assaults cop, gets shot.” None of us would know either of their names. The Brown family could mourn the loss of their son with the understanding that his death was predominantly or entirely his own doing, and Wilson would probably still have a job. So I am definitely alright with those.

I also think its a good idea to look into “militarization” and its effects. E.g., the baby who is now disfigured because of a flash grenade fired into an apartment in order to bust an alleged low-level drug dealer.[/quote]

Yeah. I agree, and I’ve long been in favor of cops having body cameras. The places it’s been tried it’s lead to a marked decrease in both complaints and physical force so it’s a winner in my book.

I really hate that Obama had to drive this task force up. I agree with largely the items that are on the list but for some reason I really can’t get over my dislike of him in this case. It is probably because of precedent regarding race/kids/grandstanding (ahem dragging kids on stage after school shooting, the professor incident with the local police a few years ago).

Still, good. A move I finally agree with.[/quote]

My department have had cameras in the cars for years. At first the officers were leery of them being used against them for minor policy violations. Some got jammed up for being dicks to the public when complaints came in and they were disciplined. For those officers that were prone to running their mouths with the public they had to reevaluate how they chose to conduct business if they wanted to maintain employment. We found that it reduced citizen complaints substantially. A win win situation, for us and the public we serve. In fact most officers (my department) are in full support of having cameras today. They feel it protects them from frivolous complaints from the public being made against them and their testimony in court is that much stronger. I have fielded several citizen complaints where it was found that the citizen was flat out lying about the improper conduct on behalf of the officer. Video was key in these IA investigations.

We have been in the process of testing and evaluating body cameras since before the Ferguson incident. If the federal government wants to throw some money our way for body cameras we would jump all over it.

I’m just kind of letting everything that’s been going on the last week sink in. With all the local cops, state troopers, and nearly 1300 National Guardsmen in Ferguson, they could do little to stop the looting or protect private property. Instead, it took able bodied, armed men and woman from the community to do so.

How does someone who is in favor of disarmament reconcile their beliefs with what has happened over the last week? I haven’t scoured the papers, but I haven’t come across stories of civilians shooting looters; the armed citizens really seem to just be deterrents and are behaving admirably. Ironically, the looters are behaving rationally, albeit immorally. They steal when the consequences of doing so are low, and they steer clear of areas where the consequences might include lead poisoning.