Rifle Lovers

Off Topic
101

Oh, please.

I can consistantly knock down a man-size target with an M16 at 300 meters, but that does not mean I consider myself qualified to use that rifle or that cartridge on whitetail or other large game. And I’m really not too happy about using it on men, to be perfectly honest. In hunting, and in fighting, your skill ceases to matter once the bullet leaves the muzzle. From then on it’s pure luck. I find, however, that the larger the diameter of my bullet, the luckier I get.

Do your enemies and your quarry a courtesy, and shoot them with a decent cartridge. To repeat: 7.62 NATO, .30-06 US, .303 Brit, 7.92 Swiss etc.

Save the .22 for the rats and the prairie dogs.

102

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
In hunting, and in fighting, your skill ceases to matter once the bullet leaves the muzzle. From then on it’s pure luck. I find, however, that the larger the diameter of my bullet, the luckier I get.
[/quote]

Luck and skill matter even less the further from target the shooter gets. At ranges over 500 yards, kinetic energy of the bullet begins to matter more.

Although these numbers seem high to me, the speed at which a projectile must travel to penetrate skin is 163 foot pounds (fps)and to break bone is 213 fps.

http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html

The .223 has around 500 fps of kinetic energy at 300 yards and a mere 200 fps at 500 yards. The 30-06 has 1,500 fps of kinetic energy at 500 yards. At 500 yards, I’d say a shooter is really pushing the envelope of the .223’s capacity to do much damage. Which makes me wonder why the USMC KD course has a 500 yard line string of fire.

103

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:

Luck and skill matter even less the further from target the shooter gets. At ranges over 500 yards, kinetic energy of the bullet begins to matter more. [/quote]

Good point. What I found interesting in that study was that the 5.56, with a muzzle velocity in excess of that of the 7.62, lost 60% of that velocity at 500 yards, compared to a loss of only 39% for the 7.62.

Kinetic energy being the product of one-half mass times velocity squared, it is easy to see how a heavier bullet (nearly 3 times the mass) traveling almost 1200 fps faster, would develop far more energy at this range.

So, yes. You are correct, Tool: skill, luck, and ballistics…and good judgement doesn’t hurt, either.

V

104

Gun lovers @ play, enjoy.

http://www.break.com/articles/SLOWHUNT.html

105

[quote]DB297 wrote:
Gun lovers @ play, enjoy.

http://www.break.com/articles/SLOWHUNT.html

[/quote]

Once again, DB, thou pierceth us with thine rapier wit.

[quote]DB297 wrote, on the Handgun Lovers thread:

But come on, I’m sure shooting through paper makes them feel better about having a small penis.[/quote]

Just what is it with you and firearms and male genitalia? I find it a bit disturbing.

[quote]
DB297 wrote, also on the Handgun thread:

Please enlighten me why anyone needs a handgun and don’t give me that protection line. When was the last time someone broke into you house? [/quote]

What’s the matter? Were you frustrated at getting booed off that thread by the big, bad pistoleros, so you figured you’d come over here and harrass the riflemen instead?

Ironic that your untimely post, doubtless cunningly devised to prove conclusively that gun lovers are stupid, should have interrupted a thoughtful discussion on ballistic coefficients, trajectory and kinetic energy.

Congratulations. You have accomplished what I doubted possible: to make yourself look an even bigger fool than you already did.

You are most unwelcome here. If you have something meaningful to add to the pro- and anti-gun debate, by all means take it over to the Liberty Control thread. You’ll find many of us over there, waiting for you.

V

106

[quote]Celticwolf wrote:
Build your own. It’s easy and cheaper than just buying an AR15. The bonus is you get to understand how it works.

For more info on building one, or buying one go to AR15.com and browse the forums.

Everyone should have a battle rifle. AK47’s are for people who dont like to hit what they shoot at.[/quote]

Can you provide a little more info on this? I’ve been looking into a build your own AR-15 project but I’m confused about legality. One of the highly regarded dealers on AR15.com happens to be about a 20 minute drive from where I am, however when looking on their website for Lowers it clearly states that an FFL is required before they ship.

Does the type of gunsmithing required for an AR-15 require an FFL? If not, how does one go about acquiring Lowers w/ LPK? All of the dealers I’ve found online seem to require a faxed FFL before shipment. The forums on AR15.com are incredibly informative for the actual gunsmithing, but I can’t find a definitive answer for my legal concerns.

P.S. I’ve also PM’ed you, CW, but feel free to reply here if you have information worth sharing. Thanks.

107

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Consistence is not luck my friend. Not say that I ever taken anything ells that size with a .223, but I have never lost one of my targets.

Oh, please.

I can consistantly knock down a man-size target with an M16 at 300 meters, but that does not mean I consider myself qualified to use that rifle or that cartridge on whitetail or other large game. And I’m really not too happy about using it on men, to be perfectly honest. In hunting, and in fighting, your skill ceases to matter once the bullet leaves the muzzle. From then on it’s pure luck. I find, however, that the larger the diameter of my bullet, the luckier I get.

Do your enemies and your quarry a courtesy, and shoot them with a decent cartridge. To repeat: 7.62 NATO, .30-06 US, .303 Brit, 7.92 Swiss etc.

Save the .22 for the rats and the prairie dogs.[/quote]

Dont depend on luck, it wont get you that far.

108

[quote]Dane Percival wrote:
Varqanir wrote:

Consistence is not luck my friend. Not say that I ever taken anything ells that size with a .223, but I have never lost one of my targets.

Oh, please.

I can consistantly knock down a man-size target with an M16 at 300 meters, but that does not mean I consider myself qualified to use that rifle or that cartridge on whitetail or other large game. And I’m really not too happy about using it on men, to be perfectly honest. In hunting, and in fighting, your skill ceases to matter once the bullet leaves the muzzle. From then on it’s pure luck. I find, however, that the larger the diameter of my bullet, the luckier I get.

Do your enemies and your quarry a courtesy, and shoot them with a decent cartridge. To repeat: 7.62 NATO, .30-06 US, .303 Brit, 7.92 Swiss etc.

Save the .22 for the rats and the prairie dogs.

Dont depend on luck, it wont get you that far.
[/quote]

sigh I don’t depend on luck, Dane.

As I thought I had made clear, I depend on my skill with my weapon, supplemented by selection of the appropriate caliber, load and bullet configuration for the target I am facing. Once I have aligned my sights on the target and squeezed the trigger, and once the bullet has cleared the muzzle, my skill becomes irrelevant.

Assuming I have correctly accounted for bullet drop, wind deflection and target lead, all I can hope for from the time the bullet leaves the muzzle is that neither the wind nor the target unexpectedly changes direction or speed. This I call “luck”.

If I am skillful, my point of aim will be in the kill zone at the time of firing.

If I am lucky, the point of impact will correspond with my point of aim.

If I am smart, I will have selected a bullet that will do the job once it gets there.

109

This is a little far fetched, but I thought I’d mention it for those that haven’t heard of it. Just something I’d thought was cool and wanted to share. It’s a prototype and has it’s bugs, mainly with the smart ammunution but the concept is awesome even if you just use it as a point target weapon.

The XM25 semi-auto 25mm grenade launcher with new HEAB(High Explosive Air Burst) rounds. Also can be used with plain old impact detonating rounds or thermobaric rounds. Don’t you just wish every fireteam or every other fireteam had one?

Disclaimer: This is all just speculative, it’s not a weapon in current production, so please no “it’s not a real gun” replys.

110

[quote]CEZAR wrote:
This is a little far fetched, but I thought I’d mention it for those that haven’t heard of it. Just something I’d thought was cool and wanted to share. It’s a prototype and has it’s bugs, mainly with the smart ammunution but the concept is awesome even if you just use it as a point target weapon.

The XM25 semi-auto 25mm grenade launcher with new HEAB(High Explosive Air Burst) rounds. Also can be used with plain old impact detonating rounds or thermobaric rounds. Don’t you just wish every fireteam or every other fireteam had one?

Disclaimer: This is all just speculative, it’s not a weapon in current production, so please no “it’s not a real gun” replys.

[/quote]

Holy shit! I just saw that bad boy yesterday in a magazine article covering an international arms show! I was going to try to find it on the web and post it, but you beat me to it, Cezar!

High-explosive air burst…Kind of like a portable Daisy Cutter, eh?

111

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Dane Percival wrote:
Varqanir wrote:

Consistence is not luck my friend. Not say that I ever taken anything ells that size with a .223, but I have never lost one of my targets.

Oh, please.

I can consistantly knock down a man-size target with an M16 at 300 meters, but that does not mean I consider myself qualified to use that rifle or that cartridge on whitetail or other large game. And I’m really not too happy about using it on men, to be perfectly honest. In hunting, and in fighting, your skill ceases to matter once the bullet leaves the muzzle. From then on it’s pure luck. I find, however, that the larger the diameter of my bullet, the luckier I get.

Do your enemies and your quarry a courtesy, and shoot them with a decent cartridge. To repeat: 7.62 NATO, .30-06 US, .303 Brit, 7.92 Swiss etc.

Save the .22 for the rats and the prairie dogs.

Dont depend on luck, it wont get you that far.

sigh I don’t depend on luck, Dane.

As I thought I had made clear, I depend on my skill with my weapon, supplemented by selection of the appropriate caliber, load and bullet configuration for the target I am facing. Once I have aligned my sights on the target and squeezed the trigger, and once the bullet has cleared the muzzle, my skill becomes irrelevant.

Assuming I have correctly accounted for bullet drop, wind deflection and target lead, all I can hope for from the time the bullet leaves the muzzle is that neither the wind nor the target unexpectedly changes direction or speed. This I call “luck”.

If I am skillful, my point of aim will be in the kill zone at the time of firing.

If I am lucky, the point of impact will correspond with my point of aim.

If I am smart, I will have selected a bullet that will do the job once it gets there.[/quote]

Now we are talking on the same page. I agree with everything you just said.

112

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
CEZAR wrote:
This is a little far fetched, but I thought I’d mention it for those that haven’t heard of it. Just something I’d thought was cool and wanted to share. It’s a prototype and has it’s bugs, mainly with the smart ammunution but the concept is awesome even if you just use it as a point target weapon.

The XM25 semi-auto 25mm grenade launcher with new HEAB(High Explosive Air Burst) rounds. Also can be used with plain old impact detonating rounds or thermobaric rounds. Don’t you just wish every fireteam or every other fireteam had one?

Disclaimer: This is all just speculative, it’s not a weapon in current production, so please no “it’s not a real gun” replys.

Holy shit! I just saw that bad boy yesterday in a magazine article covering an international arms show! I was going to try to find it on the web and post it, but you beat me to it, Cezar!

High-explosive air burst…Kind of like a portable Daisy Cutter, eh?
[/quote]

Yup, fly over a bunker or go through a wall then explode into the enemy. Hell they moved it up to 25mm from 20mm cause it didn’t have enough punch at 20mm.

113

[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Celticwolf wrote:
Build your own. It’s easy and cheaper than just buying an AR15. The bonus is you get to understand how it works.

For more info on building one, or buying one go to AR15.com and browse the forums.

Everyone should have a battle rifle. AK47’s are for people who dont like to hit what they shoot at.

Can you provide a little more info on this? I’ve been looking into a build your own AR-15 project but I’m confused about legality. One of the highly regarded dealers on AR15.com happens to be about a 20 minute drive from where I am, however when looking on their website for Lowers it clearly states that an FFL is required before they ship.

Does the type of gunsmithing required for an AR-15 require an FFL? If not, how does one go about acquiring Lowers w/ LPK? All of the dealers I’ve found online seem to require a faxed FFL before shipment. The forums on AR15.com are incredibly informative for the actual gunsmithing, but I can’t find a definitive answer for my legal concerns.

P.S. I’ve also PM’ed you, CW, but feel free to reply here if you have information worth sharing. Thanks.[/quote]

When you build your own AR, you will need the following:

A lower receiver. You can buy stripped lowers, and lower parts kits which you then assemble into a lower receiver, or fully assembled lower recievers. Unless you buy a lower from a private owner, who has gone through the process of filling out the 4473, you will need to do that. It is the same process as buying a rifle. One way around this is to buy 80% lowers and then finish the machining yourself. Unless you are a machinist, I would skip this.

Upper
This is the barrel and gas system. You do not need to do the 4473 routine on these. You can buy these through the mail. They are not considered a “firearm”.

Bolt and carrier. This is what “operates” in the weapon. Again, these are not considered “weapons”, and you do not have to do the 4473 routine.

I hope this clears it up a little. Putting one of these rifles together is not that hard. The lower should take you about a half an hour the first time. After that, about 15 minutes. For your first one, buy an upper. It takes some specialized tools to put one together, and you need to know how to headspace it.

John

114

Thought you might like this site of commentary pertaining rifles and shooting.

http://harris.dvc.org.uk/jeff/

115

[quote]Chewman wrote:
Thought you might like this site of commentary pertaining rifles and shooting.

http://harris.dvc.org.uk/jeff/ [/quote]

The Guru, of course. Been reading him for decades.

Whatever Col. Jeff Cooper doesn’t know about firearms probably doesn’t need knowin’.

Lily-livered liberals beware: the Colonel is about two clicks farther right than Rush Limbaugh.

But much more eloquent. Enjoy.

116

A friend of mine is a gun fanatic. Here’s his latest project. AR15 modified.

117

Good info on the AR-15 rifle and cartridge, from the AR15.com staff.

120

I want to get an AR 15, but i’m in college, so i’ll just shoot what i have. That is an SAR-1 (Semi Auto AK-47), 9mm Carbine (Semi Auto), 22mag (bolt action) for prairie dogs and varmints.