RI Superintendent to Fire All Teachers

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]dhickey wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]doubleh wrote:

OK… but actually, it seems like your point was teachers unionized because they were underpaid and exploited. And it sure sounded like you were pro-union.[/quote]

I’m saying that forming a union was the only option against the predominate public school system, a system which uses tax dollars to compete against all comers.

Other posters here are complaining about the unions but what do they offer regarding a system that caused the unions to spring up in the first place?

If all we do is hamstring or somehow abolish the unions without getting rid of the public schools, then we’re going to wind up in exactly the same situation as we have now.

We’re blaming the crops when what we really have is lousy soil.
[/quote]

This is bullshit and you know it. Teachers’ unions could exist without protecting bad teachers, keeping pay low for good teachers, limiting the supply of good teachers, and actively propping up the current education system. But we all know they don’t.

To suggest that we should accept this as a side effect of gov’t education, rather than criticizing the unions, is silly.

Excuses can be found for any bad behavior. That doesn’t mean you don’t punish bad behavior.

[/quote]

Well then go ahead and punish them.

After you have failed, maybe we could talk about the system.

[/quote]

People who think at the perceptual level of awareness don’t think in terms of principles. So they keep repeating the same tragedies throughout history, never understanding the source of their tragedies.

They will weaken the unions, like Obama’s doing, yet the same old crap will happen. School districts will cut pay of the newbies, even fewer qualified people will enter teaching, and they will stand there in wonder as to why what they did accomplished nothing.

322

I think this firing is great.

I don’t really care about unions. I don’t think in terms of pro and anti union, I’m against them getting special treatment as entities (rather than being treated as a bunch of people, just like I don’t think corporations should be treated as special entities).

I do think the teachers unions tend to be the most ass-backwards-fucked-up unions out there. They defend shitty teachers to the death.

Yeah, teaching is crappy pay, but there are other benefits, not to mention relatively few work days compared to the rest of us.

I agree with those who argue the entire system needs to be overhauled: Good teachers need to be paid WAY more i.e., people need to know they can make a really good living getting into teaching if they do a good job. On the other hand, crappy teachers need to be cleansed from the system RIGHT AWAY. And tenure should be totally eliminated from the public education realm: the idea that you can make it to some magical point, and then dick around fro the rest of your career and never get fired is redunk.

323

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
I think this firing is great.

I don’t really care about unions. I don’t think in terms of pro and anti union, I’m against them getting special treatment as entities (rather than being treated as a bunch of people, just like I don’t think corporations should be treated as special entities).

I do think the teachers unions tend to be the most ass-backwards-fucked-up unions out there. They defend shitty teachers to the death.

Yeah, teaching is crappy pay, but there are other benefits, not to mention relatively few work days compared to the rest of us.

I agree with those who argue the entire system needs to be overhauled: Good teachers need to be paid WAY more i.e., people need to know they can make a really good living getting into teaching if they do a good job. On the other hand, crappy teachers need to be cleansed from the system RIGHT AWAY. And tenure should be totally eliminated from the public education realm: the idea that you can make it to some magical point, and then dick around fro the rest of your career and never get fired is redunk.[/quote]

Tenure is needed to protect professors doing original research. Imagine a prof who publishes proof that men are genetically better at math than women, or publishes proof that global warming and AIDs are scams.

Tenure was introduced in K-12 public schools so that they could pay less. Many will accept lower pay for the job security.

324

Charter Schools in Harlem … Not really on the same topic as the RI school teachers but this opinion piece touches on oppostion to charter schools by Teachers Unions: Jason Riley: Charter Schools Flourish in Harlem - WSJ

“Harlem now has more school choice per square foot than any other place in the country,” says Eva Moskowitz, who operates four charters in Harlem. Nationwide, the average black 12th grader reads at the level of a white eighth grader.

Yet Harlem charter students at schools like KIPP and Democracy Prep are outperforming their white peers in wealthy suburbs. At the Promise Academy charter schools, 97% of third graders scored at or above grade level in math.

At Harlem Village Academy, 100% of eighth graders aced the state science exam. Every third grader at Harlem Success Academy 1, operated by Ms. Moskowitz, passed the state math exam, and 71% of them achieved the top score."

Just a short paragraph from the article

325

The problem I have with tenure, is that it is too easy to get. At least it is here in California. You have tenured teachers here who have been charged with sexual assault and are still teaching, they are simply shuffled around school districts.

I think job security should consider things like student performance, because here there is no such consideration. This is why teachers don’t give a shit, they know they won’t get fired.

As far as I am concerned, I am glad to see these firings, the teachers and unions need to learn that they are not immune. They are not above reproach.

326

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The problem I have with tenure, is that it is too easy to get. At least it is here in California. You have tenured teachers here who have been charged with sexual assault and are still teaching, they are simply shuffled around school districts.

I think job security should consider things like student performance, because here there is no such consideration. This is why teachers don’t give a shit, they know they won’t get fired.

As far as I am concerned, I am glad to see these firings, the teachers and unions need to learn that they are not immune. They are not above reproach. [/quote]

Blame the lawyers. Unless the school has an airtight case (like a room full of nuns witnessing a teacher screwing a kid or similar at knifepoint) a lawyer employed by the unions will run with the ball and the district gets huge legal fees.

We need tort reform. And YES we need an absolute code of conduct. That being said, a lot of students cry ‘rape’ or ‘harassment’ against a teacher they hate.

327

Columnist Mark Patinkin: Central Falls teachers not all of one mind

The Central Falls High School drama has been a national story for weeks. Media outlets from the Washington Post to the Seattle Times have written about it. President Obama has weighed in. At last count, Google News shows more than 2,000 articles by mainstream media. Thatâ??s a lot of coverage.

But I think a critical truth has been overlooked.

The story up to now has been cast as strong superintendent versus a united union. Emphasis on â??united.â??

The Central Falls Teaches Union refused to agree to Supt. Frances Galloâ??s plan to commit to professional development and more time with students to remake a failing school. Gallo decided this left her with no choice but to fire the whole faculty as a first step toward transformation.

The teachers were outraged. They became a cause célèbre for state and national unions. In repeated rallies, Central Falls teachers stood together in solidarity. They seemed all on the same page in rejecting Galloâ??s plan.

But were they?

First of all, let me clear up a mistake I made in a previous column. Itâ??s worth pointing out because itâ??s a common misconception.

I wrote that the Central Falls teachers made a huge tactical error by voting down Galloâ??s proposals.

In fact, it never came to a vote. Supt. Gallo acted when talks with union leaders broke down.

Because there was no vote, we donâ??t know if every Central Falls teacher supports the union leadership. So far, it sure has appeared so. I for one have not seen any articles about dissension in the ranks.

But itâ??s time someone said that not every teacher seems to agree with the union.

The situation, by the way, is in flux, and by the time this column appears, perhaps the two sides will have moved toward greater cooperation. But the fact remains that the union leadership, by resisting Galloâ??s proposals, put its members in the disastrous position of being fired.

How do the teachers feel about this?

Most have expressed absolute support for their union. But at least a few arenâ??t happy about how they were led.

After I wrote a previous column on the story, I heard from scores of readers, some of whom said they knew Central Falls teachers who were upset at their union.

I also got a number of letters from Central Falls teachers themselves.

Hereâ??s one:

â??As a C.F. High School teacher I agree with you,â?? the e-mail said. â??The Union blew it. The only mistake you made was writing that we voted it down. This is untrue because we were never given the chance to vote. The Union leadership made the decision for us and many of us are not happy.â??

Why not express that unhappiness?

â??Many fear Union retribution,â?? the letter said.

…

Full Story:

328

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Tenure is needed to protect professors doing original research. Imagine a prof who publishes proof that men are genetically better at math than women, or publishes proof that global warming and AIDs are scams.
[/quote]

I understand the argument, but I think it’s disingenuous given the reality we live in to make it, and I think everyone knows it. There are many other way time could be allocated for research in a “consequence free” sand-box, for a given amount of time, without their entire career becoming bullet-proof. I know you were just stating the argument, not making, but anyone who makes it is being intellectually dishonest if they claim that’s the only to do it.

It’s like saying cops are going to piss people off when they write tickets, or arrest the wrong person, so cops should be immune lawsuits, and have absolute job safety: anyone who is terrible at their job, should be able to be fired, especially in the public sector.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Tenure was introduced in K-12 public schools so that they could pay less. Many will accept lower pay for the job security.
[/quote]

That’s even worse… so we get the old, unambitious teachers who will trade being underpaid (and disgruntled, because that’s what happens when you’re underpaid) for job-security, i.e. the ability to dick-around and still receive a pay-check no matter what.

Pay teachers well, and fire the crappy ones right away. Easy solution. Start tapping into the top 10% of college grads instead of the bottom 20%.

329

“D” Nearly Party Line Vote Kills School Vouchers in DC

On Tuesday evening, the Senate rejected an amendment to reauthorize the Opportunity Scholarships program, which provides private school tuition vouchers to 1,300 poor D.C. children.

The nearly party-line vote was a serious mistake for Democratsâ??both educational and political.

Only three Democratic senatorsâ?? Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Ben Nelson (D-Fla.), and Mark Warner (D-Va.)â??in addition to Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) voted with Republicans to save the program. Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.Va.) co-sponsored the reauthorization amendment, but did not vote. A single Republican, Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, voted with the majority.

Why do Democrats oppose school choice for poor families so strongly?

Senator Dorgan (D-N.D.) questioned the need for vouchers, arguing that they rob public schools of desperately needed funds, He also asserted that public schools are not failing. â??Whose boot print is on the Moon?â?? he exclaimed.

That is cold comfort for D.C. public school students. Few of them will ever make it beyond the Earthâ??s atmosphereâ??roughly half donâ??t make it out of high school in four years. The Districtâ??s on-time graduation rate has been pegged at just 48.8 percent. By the eighth grade, most D.C. students score below â??Basicâ?? in both mathematics and science on the National Assessment of Educational Progress.

[b]Senator Dorganâ??s fiscal argument rests on even shakier ground. Far from reducing D.C. public school spending, the Opportunity Scholarships were originally packaged with an extra $13 million for D.C. public schools. Nor has the Districtâ??s spending been slashed to the bone. The city spent $1.3 billion on fewer than 46,000 students last yearâ??$28,000 per pupil.

By comparison, average tuition at voucher-accepting schools was $6,600.[/b] According to a Department of Education study, students attending those private schools are outperforming their public sector peers: better results at one quarter the cost. So how does killing the program enhance fiscal discipline?

…

None of this evidence is obscure or hidden. Yet it has been ignored by virtually all national Democratic politicians. The reasons for this neglect are hardly secret either.

In her Senate speech on Tuesday, Feinstein noted that the teachers unions adamantly oppose vouchers (private schools are mostly nonunionized) and that there has been tremendous lobbying against the D.C. program. The NEA and the AFT are consistently among the largest political donors in the nation, and they give almost exclusively to Democrats. So the political calculus for Democrats in the House and Senate, not to mention the administration, seems elementary: do what the unions want on education, boost your prospects for re-election.

Read more: Voucher vote a double negative for Democrats | The Daily Caller

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[quote]SteelyD wrote:
The NEA and the AFT are consistently among the largest political donors in the nation, and they give almost exclusively to Democrats. So the political calculus for Democrats in the House and Senate, not to mention the administration, seems elementary: do what the unions want on education, boost your prospects for re-election.[/b]

Read more: Voucher vote a double negative for Democrats | The Daily Caller

[/quote]

But yet the Dems get the votes. I think you don’t grasp that what we have today is exactly what most people want. They WANT ‘free’ schools, ‘free’ healthcare, a ‘free’ retirement, ‘free’ roads, ‘free’ cops,…

They, and probably you, voted for these creatures. Don’t like what they’re doing? Well, why’d you vote for 'em?

331

Key facts above:

DC government-run schools: $26,000 per student, performing terribly, and blaming it on not enough money and crying for more.

DC private schools with students attending via vouchers: average $6600 tuition, better performance, and no demand to take more from the taxpayer.

332

I think the most amusing part of the article is the quote from Senator Dorgan (D-ND) stating â??Whose boot print is on the Moon?â??

Is he really trying to compare public eductaion from the 1950’s to that of today??

333

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Key facts above:

DC government-run schools: $26,000 per student, performing terribly, and blaming it on not enough money and crying for more.

DC private schools with students attending via vouchers: average $6600 tuition, better performance, and no demand to take more from the taxpayer.[/quote]

Who gets what part of the $26,000? This is similar to how politicians demagogue Exxon as evil, while Exxon makes about 9 cents off of every gallon.

Ask yourself why the private schools can do a better job and pay their teachers less. The teachers probably also have a much lower retirement pension and higher deductible on their health insurance. So money is apparently irrelevant. If it were, why wouldn’t the private teachers be heading for the publics? (Hint: its the kids and parents)

I think that parents should have to pay something for their kid to go to ANY school. If you pay for something, you’re way more interested in seeing a successful outcome.

334

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Key facts above:

DC government-run schools: $26,000 per student, performing terribly, and blaming it on not enough money and crying for more.

DC private schools with students attending via vouchers: average $6600 tuition, better performance, and no demand to take more from the taxpayer.[/quote]

This.

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You stay classy, teachers union!

http://wcbstv.com/local/governor.christie.union.2.1621917.html

Union Memo Hints At Gov.'s Death
Teachers Union’s Memo The Latest Salvo In War Of Words With Gov. Christie

…

The Record of Bergen County obtained the Bergen County Education Association memo that includes a closing prayer:

“Dear Lord this year you have taken away my favorite actor, Patrick Swayze, my favorite actress, Farrah Fawcett, my favorite singer, Michael Jackson, and my favorite salesman, Billy Mays. I just wanted to let you know that Chris Christie is my favorite governor.”

Association president Joe Coppola says the “prayer” was a joke and was never meant to be made public.

Christie spokesman Michael Drewniak says there’s nothing professional about the group.

…

336

I got some mad respect for Christie, he has the balls to make the tough decisions that need to be made. Someone please clone him and send him to California.

337

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Key facts above:

DC government-run schools: $26,000 per student, performing terribly, and blaming it on not enough money and crying for more.

DC private schools with students attending via vouchers: average $6600 tuition, better performance, and no demand to take more from the taxpayer.[/quote]

If it were, why wouldn’t the private teachers be heading for the publics? (Hint: its the kids and parents)

I think that parents should have to pay something for their kid to go to ANY school. If you pay for something, you’re way more interested in seeing a successful outcome.
[/quote]

This and This. Good job both of you.