Reversing a Dirty Bulk

Nutrition
1

Hi all you guys that did it right.

I got impatient and took in too many cals, carbs and fat in my first noob bulking phase. I went from about 135 lbs to 160 in about 4 months and it just doesn’t look right in the mirror, so I have to reevaluate my diet which is basically been see food, eat food. At the beginning I was skinny-fat, and now I’m not-so-skinny but fat. I have no plans on cutting as in the long run I want a full house or hard look.

My lifts and measurements are going in the right direction, however I’m afraid of gaining too much fat too fast, which at 53 years old could turn out to be harder to get rid of as I think. I have to clean everything up quickly, and I would like to ask the board here if someone has a tip to keep my cals and protein intake up and go low carb & fat. Or if this makes any sense at all.

I’ve only been lifting for 7 months and I know this is not a very long time, however I don’t want to balloon up to >25% BF before I hit the sweet spot between my diet and lifting mix. I’m making a new and cleaner diet plan and have increased the intensity of my workout, but I have the feeling I have to stop gaining fat today. Will the situation just take care of itself? I’m sailing uncharted waters here and can’t picture what I’m going to look like in 6 months.

Any tips on reversing/stopping the short-medium term fat gains would be of help. Or am I just freaking out and should relax and keep going as is?

Macros:

Protien: 220-260gm
Carbs: 160-190gm
Cals: 2850-3200

Trainings Plan:

Day 1 Chest / Legs

3 X 4-6 BB Bench press
2 X 8-10 Inclined DB BP
2 X 12-15 DB Flys
1 X 20 Squats
3 X 8-10 Front Squats
2 X 12-15 Leg Presses
2 X 10-12 Preacher Curls
Calves

Day 2 Back / Shoulders

1 X 20 Deadlifts
3 X Max rep Pullups
2 X 8-10 BB Pendlay Rows
3 X 4-6 Military press
2 X 8-12 DB Side lifts
2 X 8-12 DB Bent over Lateral raises
2 X 10-12 French Presses
Abs

Day on, day off. Bench 165/DL 215/SQ 190

Thanks, Cuso

2

Look up Chris Shugart’s stuff on this site. Cut the carbs and eat leaner meats and you should thin out. While still building strength.

Also you have a 2-day split - what are you doing on the other days of the week? Your split (IMO) is just off. At times it looks like you’re going for hypertrophy and then on others you’re going for strength.

3

Pics of said fat?

Also, your routine sucks and it could be improved greatly.

4

[quote]shibboleth wrote:
Look up Chris Shugart’s stuff on this site. Cut the carbs and eat leaner meats and you should thin out. While still building strength.

Also you have a 2-day split - what are you doing on the other days of the week? Your split (IMO) is just off. At times it looks like you’re going for hypertrophy and then on others you’re going for strength.[/quote]

Thanks for the tip on carbs and Chris, will do. The routine is a mix for mass & strength, and I do 3-4 times a week (day on/off). I don’t want to hop programs so I’m stuck with it for another 6 weeks. On off days I eat more fish, veggies and salad. No cardio till later.

5

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
Pics of said fat?

Also, your routine sucks and it could be improved greatly.[/quote]

Love handles on my sides and lower back, which were not there before. Thanks for your comment on my routine but I want to do it for another 6 weeks before I change anything. I will however work more core/ab stuff in on the short term.

6

[quote]Cuso wrote:
I want a full house or hard look.[/quote]
I literally have no idea what a “Full House” is outside of card games. Is it measurable?

If no get yourself some measurable goals so you know when you have reached them.

Use S.M.A.R.T to set your goals.

Once you have specific and measurable goals you will be able to plan a better path to achieving them. Judging by the rest of your OP you can’t decide weather to shoot for lean mass gains (which will usually add some fat) or maintaining your leanness.

Goals, get it? What is more important?

7

[quote]Cuso wrote:
I went from about 135 lbs to 160 in about 4 months[/quote]
How much did your strength increase on the basic lifts in these four months?

Low carb or low fat. Dropping both is inefficient and unnecessary.

Have you been doing this lifting program for most of the time? I’m not sure why you don’t want to change it up, since, as was mentioned, it could definitely be tweaked. And by tweaked, I mean pretty much totally revamped. DeFranco has a pretty solid template:

Nope, the situation isn’t going to “take care of itself.” As the saying goes, if you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you’ve always got. So you need to adjust the training, the nutrition, or both.

If you’re getting uncomfortable with the results and are seeing a measurable level of fat gain you consider excessive, I’d say you’re definitely not just freaking out. At your age, it’s a valid concern thinking about what you’re going to do after you’re done with this mass gaining plan. At over 50, it’s a little different ballgame, when you factor in general recovery time, dealing with or preventing injury, etc.

[quote]Macros:

Protien: 220-260gm
Carbs: 160-190gm
Cals: 2850-3200[/quote]
You could either drop the total calories a bit on non-training days or add some brief cardio/finishers to give your body “something to do” with the extra calories.

[quote]Trainings Plan:
…1 X 20 Squats
…
1 X 20 Deadlifts [/quote]
Are these for a general warm-up, or are they relatively heavy, ball-busting high-rep sets?

What does this mean? No cardio until after you’re done bulking? Or no cardio until after weights? I’m not sure here. If you’re doing zero cardio, and you’re unhappy with your fat gain, you can add in a bit even during a bulking plan.

8


Thanks for your answer JLone. I have goals, but not to look like this ^^

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]Cuso wrote:
I want a full house or hard look.[/quote]
I literally have no idea what a “Full House” is outside of card games. Is it measurable?
[/quote]

This is Cut at about 12%BF

9

This is “Hard” at about 15% BF

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And this is a “Full House” at about 20% BF

I want a look somewhere between Hard & Full House, but because of my age I still want to have some control over where everything gets big, or later I’m just going to be cutting and losing mass all over. Therefore my goal is a cleaner diet with a evenly distributed 15-18% BF.

Remember: “Girls love the guys with the washboard abs, a woman loves the guy that can carry the washing machine.”

11

First off Chris I’d like to thank you for the time you took to answer, and to say I highly respect your advice. I make no excuses for my present shortcomings except my inexperience, and appreciate accessing the wealth of knowledge on this site.

Chris Colucci wrote:

From basically nothing to where I am now (190) on squats, from 80 to 165 on bench and 125 to 215 on DL.

[quote]“Low carb or low fat. Dropping both is inefficient and unnecessary.
How Bodybuilders Should Eat - T Nation Content - COMMUNITY - T NATION”[/quote]
Thank you, will study this as well as “The truth about bulking” from CT, whos article brought me to post this in the first place.

[quote]“Have you been doing this lifting program for most of the time? I’m not sure why you don’t want to change it up, since, as was mentioned, it could definitely be tweaked. And by tweaked, I mean pretty much totally revamped. DeFranco has a pretty solid template:
DeFranco's Training Rules for Washed-up Meatheads”[/quote]
Been doing this program for a month now with good results, but am not “Allergic to Advice”. I just don’t want to jump around between programs, which I see as a mistake. However, I trust your proven judgement, and will reevaluate.

Also a reason why I don’t want to change horses in the middle of the stream. The gains are good, and I was hoping that just continuing as is could mean an improvement (less fat, more muscle) in my gains. If I’m starting to gain in the wrong proportions (which I fear I am) I will make a change.

My whole trainings plan is based on injury prevention, increasing stamina and achieving a balance between strength and mass gains. Maybe it will take a little longer to reach my goals, but if I get injured to the point I can’t work, I go hungry. For me the axiom is slow and steady, instead of bashing my head against the wall. I am not lazy, or I wouldn’t be writing this.

I concentrate more on protein intake for recuperation on off days than calories. Here is room for improvement and fine tuning. Will reevaluate and add 30 minutes of cardio after back/shoulder days.

Heavy as I can with as few pauses as possible and still remain explosive. I do 2 X 10 ramped for my warm-up.

See point above.

I think one of my problems (as for every noob) is the lack of imagination as to how everything will or could look in 6 months or a year from now. If I had been lifting for ten years I would know the probable results of a set plan in advance.

You guys will just have to forgive me as I’ve never participated in a sport where the results are measured in years instead of months.

12

[quote]Cuso wrote:
Been doing this program for a month now with good results, but am not “Allergic to Advice”. I just don’t want to jump around between programs, which I see as a mistake. However, I trust your proven judgement, and will reevaluate.[/quote]
Okay, gotcha. if that’s the case, you should still be able to see some solid results by adjusting your nutrition and making minimal changes to the training. Simply adding some strategic cardio will make the biggest difference, exercise-wise, for now.

[quote]As the saying goes, if you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you’ve always got. So you need to adjust the training, the nutrition, or both."

Ya know, man, I feel like I’m leading a horse to water, but I can’t make it drink. When it comes to training, sometimes you get the bear, but sometimes the bear gets you. But at least when it rains, it pours.

(Sorry, I got on an analogy roll. Ha.)

My whole trainings plan is based on injury prevention, increasing stamina and achieving a balance between strength and mass gains. Maybe it will take a little longer to reach my goals, but if I get injured to the point I can’t work, I go hungry. For me the axiom is slow and steady, instead of bashing my head against the wall. I am not lazy, or I wouldn’t be writing this.

Solid plan.

Okay, just watch those high-rep deadlifts in particular. That’s not an exercise that lends itself to heavy, high-rep work so easily. The arms/elbows and low back tend to be at the highest risk of injury.

Some info/ideas about high-rep deads, and high-rep leg training, here:

Gotcha. I think it’ll help, though, if you forget about bodyfat percentages. The pics you posted for 15% and 20% are pretty indistinguishable. So if one of those is your goal or a kinda of ideal physique, don’t bother having your bodyfat checked (the majority of methods are inaccurate/unreliable anyhow). Go by the mirror, photos, tape measurements, and how your clothes are fitting.

13

OP, you just started lifting weights at the age of 53 (possibly 52) and weighed in at 135.

If you are a natty you are NOT going to end up looking like any of the people you posted. Sorry to burst your bubble.

14

[quote]Cuso wrote:

See point above.

You guys will just have to forgive me as I’ve never participated in a sport where the results are measured in years instead of months.[/quote]

You still didn’t answer the cardio question?
I have always been a big believer in year round conditioning. As a ‘seasoned’ lifter I think it is more important than ever.

15

[quote]gregron wrote:
OP, you just started lifting weights at the age of 53 (possibly 52) and weighed in at 135.

If you are a natty you are NOT going to end up looking like any of the people you posted. Sorry to burst your bubble.[/quote]

Thanks Gregron for your input, and on this board you’ve proved yourself to be honest, open minded and almost always correct. By holding the reality card in front of my nose you’re not telling me anything I don’t know, and I’m not at all delusional.

For sure I won’t reach perfection, but if I can achieve 80% of my goal it may be more than I ever hoped to get, and it’s a great ride in the process. FWIW this is the third lifting phase of my life.

Ad astra per aspera or Per Ardua Ad Astra if you’re from the Commonwealth…

16

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

You still didn’t answer the cardio question?
I have always been a big believer in year round conditioning. As a ‘seasoned’ lifter I think it is more important than ever. [/quote]

Thanks BCT. Nice avatar!

I wrote that I’m tagging 30 minutes of cardio (which will be bike spinning) onto the end of my back/shoulder day. I’ve also been hiking about 7 miles a week (2 X 3.5) with a 20 lb backpack through hilly terrain for about the last 30 years, so it’s not like I’m a total couch potato.

What I can’t do is jogging for distance. Maybe I could do some wind sprints though. What type of conditioning do you do yourself? I mean besides the chica on your right…

17

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Okay, just watch those high-rep deadlifts in particular. That’s not an exercise that lends itself to heavy, high-rep work so easily. The arms/elbows and low back tend to be at the highest risk of injury.

Some info/ideas about high-rep deads, and high-rep leg training, here:

[/quote]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the links. I hadn’t read your article (or Peary Raders) and I think that I’m not totaly off base with my hi-rep squat & DL plan. May I bother you for one last question please?

In your article you wrote:

[i]"There’s a reason they used to call this the “squats and milk” program. The goal is to make your thighs bovine â?? big and meaty. It’s not for cutting. It’s not something you do in the middle of baseball season. There’s no functional benefit here. Size is the one and only goal.

To achieve that size, you need a lot more calories than usual."[/i]

Which makes me want to think that I should keep my calories and carbs the same and just cut or al least clean up on fat.

User shibboleth advised me just to eat leaner meats which is something I can change as I have been eating cheaper cuts which contain more fat.

Don’t answer, I think I just answered my own question.

18

Another poster definitively stated that you, at 53, will NOT attain your goal.

I hope that doubt is enough impetus to fuel you, for what you are seeking to do is not impossible. Rather, it is feasible but your age makes it more arduous than it ever should be.

My query is: why now?

Although I’m of the mind that it is never too late to start taking care of yourself and today is better than tomorrow to do so, what prevented you from engaging in this pursuit when you were in your 20’s, 30’s, 40’s?

Why now?

19

[quote]get_ate wrote:
Another poster definitively stated that you, at 53, will NOT attain your goal.

I hope that doubt is enough impetus to fuel you, for what you are seeking to do is not impossible. Rather, it is feasible but your age makes it more arduous than it ever should be.

My query is: why now?

Although I’m of the mind that it is never too late to start taking care of yourself and today is better than tomorrow to do so, what prevented you from engaging in this pursuit when you were in your 20’s, 30’s, 40’s?

Why now?[/quote]

Wow dude, you just asked a really penetrating question.

By looking at your avatar, I’d guess that you’re standing with both feet planted firmly on the ground in the middle of your life. Maybe you’ve dodged most of the pitfalls that life has thrown in your way, and for that I salute you.

I didn’t dodge as many as I should have, and some were deeper than most people could climb out of. I’ve always managed to land on my feet, but every stumble or failure had scarred my persona until somewhere along the way, I just didn’t care anymore. Now that I look back and my past is longer than my future, I feel the need…no the craving to do something that I should have done 30 years ago.

And that my friend is to become that person that I always wanted to be, but never had the discipline or the will to force myself into even trying to be. It’s not just the lifting and getting stronger, which is only a single element of what people here are doing, but it’s the whole process of metamorphosis which transforms a weak human into a strong one.

So to answer your question more directly I’ve been in a cacoon most of my life, feeding off my own soul, and want to get out and finally be the creature I was meant to be.

20

you’re older, ever thought about trt? but anyways i don’t think your goal should be to become 20% bf it’s not good for your estradiol.