Return of the Dog Pound

Off Topic
101

I’m readin’ 'ya, RJ!

I just don’t think that a separate, “elitist” (because that is what it would become)Forum is the answer. (See my earlier recommendation).

By the way; I LIKE “newbs” questions!

When coupled with the helpful, supportive spirit that is exhibited on “MWA” (didn’t TC or Shugs write about this?), it makes me question and study what I’m doing and what I recommend to others.

In other words, with “newbs”, I continue to learn.

Question:

What would you guys think if CT all of a sudden took the same attitude toward most of us that many of you seem to have against newbies?

Just a thought…

Mufasa

102

[quote]nephorm wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Something needs to be done, Mufasa.

This is what it boils down to. Something needs to be done. After months (years?) of bitching about this problem, TC seems to have offered to implement a solution.

So we can pick it apart and come up with reasons why it won’t work - and thereby get nothing, or we can try to make this particular solution work as well as possible.

This is the problem with democracy and with ruling by committee. Everyone always has well-intentioned reasons why a proposed solution won’t work. Which means nothing ever gets done.

I appreciate all the dissenting opinions, because I really do think you guys are well-intentioned. But I’d like you to stop and think about the fact that this is something that could actually be done. From a technical perspective, from a moderation perspective, and from a historical perspective, since this would not be much different from what was done in the past.

Let us not permit this to languish in committee.[/quote]

Right he offered a solution.

but not the only solution

and perhaps not even the best solution.

There are a LOT of things that could actually be done

the problem with democracy is that yes it takes a long time, it may be less efficient, but the outcome overall (hopefully) is more thought out and balanced.

again, I dont think singularly a “dog pound” will solve the problem.

You have to educate the newbs in both lifting prowess and proper psychology. For the most part the latter is something inherent but at least attempt it. I think 1/2 the time they’re caught up on terminology and just don’t have a good base in what they should be doing… they honestly just don’t know any better. And the other 1/2 are the kind of people are just arguing for arguments sake and dont have the mentality required to be contributing members.

Making a dog pound will not automatically make this site “hardcore” again. Frankly thats what happens when shit becomes popular. Just look at MMA.

If you want the site to be hardcore again the ENTIRE site has to become exclusionary. Which probably means less Biotest revenue.

What it boils down to… is trying to solve the problem.

Dog Pound, frankly, doesn’t seem to solve dick.

keep in mind, i’m actually for it. I really can’t talk shit because I dont tend to post much other than some bullshitting on the off topic forums and the “MMA Hub” thread because I like to avoid bs… But I’d like to solve “the problem” as well.

103

[quote]anonym wrote:

Once again, not trying to stir shit, just curious. Anyone have any thoughts on this?[/quote]

Stir away, that’s what the topic needs, all opinions matter and what you’ve stated was put forth by an original dog pound member in the other thread. I asked the initial question because everyone was lamenting the good ol’ days when you didn’t have to explain the difference between just lifting weights and bodybuilding.I wonder what the pound will be like, it may be what people hope it’ll be or a complete disaster. Either way, an attempt would have been made and provide something else to learn from.

104

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
maybe what is needed is not a “dog pound” but stricter moderation, pre moderation, and more frequent movement of threads from the bodybuilding section to the beginners section…

I also think that there needs to be a “general” section for the topics that get thrown into bodybuilding or strength sports by default. [/quote]

I like this idea, if there’s going to be an elitist group it should be mods.

105

Just to add to what Qaash said:

All of the opinions are being read and carefully considered.

I don’t have any “inside” information; that’s just the way Tim, TC, and Shugs seem to do things.

Mufasa

106

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’m readin’ 'ya, RJ!

I just don’t think that a separate, “elitist” (because that is what it would become)Forum is the answer. (See my earlier recommendation).

By the way; I LIKE “newbs” questions!

When coupled with the helpful, supportive spirit that is exhibited on “MWA” (didn’t TC or Shugs write about this?), it makes me question and study what I’m doing and what I recommend to others.

In other words, with “newbs”, I continue to learn.

Question:

What would you guys think if CT all of a sudden took the same attitude toward most of us that many of you seem to have against newbies?

Just a thought…

Mufasa[/quote]

I don’t have a problem with noobs. I have a problem with noobs that have never learned to shut up and listen - or in this case to shut up and read. It seems that many of them think that because they are here they should be heard.

It has pretty much turned the BBing forum into a huge joke.

I don’t think I have ever failed to help a newbie that actually acted like he was here to learn be it in the steroid forum, or in the other forums.

If you have a better idea, I am all ears. The pay site thing has never materialized - and I paid to be a part of it several years ago.

I don’t think it needs to be as exclusive, or elitist as the old DP was. Maybe it could be that everyone can post, but you have to earn the right to start a thread. I know that would stop all the incessant logs.

107

[quote]Fulmen wrote:

Maybe T-Nation doesn’t care about its bodybuilders.[/quote]

I didn’t quite hear that the first time so I thought I would quote it…for better hearing…and not because I am hoping T-Nation staff actually read it.

108

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’m readin’ 'ya, RJ!

I just don’t think that a separate, “elitist” (because that is what it would become)Forum is the answer. (See my earlier recommendation).

By the way; I LIKE “newbs” questions!

When coupled with the helpful, supportive spirit that is exhibited on “MWA” (didn’t TC or Shugs write about this?), it makes me question and study what I’m doing and what I recommend to others.

In other words, with “newbs”, I continue to learn.

Question:

What would you guys think if CT all of a sudden took the same attitude toward most of us that many of you seem to have against newbies?

Just a thought…

Mufasa[/quote]

I have no problem with newbies. I have problems with newbies who seem to think muscles are bad and that 21" thighs need to be decreased in size. I have a problem with newbies who seem to believe that “functional” training means actually losing muscle mass and resembling an anorexic Calvin Klein model while jumping into bodybuilding forums and degrading bodybuilding.

Other than that, newbies are grrrrrrrreat!

109

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

  1. Blaze, blaze BLAZE, my misguided Little Patawan…tell me, will you…WTF is, and how would you define, “ELITE”?
    Mufasa[/quote]

Stop trying to patronize me, it’s bothersome. And padawan? Do you commonly use Star Wars references on the forums? Then again you are based off a Disney Movie… I’m lower than you because i used the word “elite” and it’s rather ambiguous in this circumstance? back off buddy. i said that the idea of basing it from a financial standpoint of who had bought stuff was a stupid idea, and reminded you that the whole point of this was to give the “elite” their own forum.

I didn’t say i had the solution to finding said “elite”, you’re telling me to do something no one in this thread has figured out a way to do. I don’t know how you plan to define who would get in or not, so how about you explain it to me. Mufasa, what “ELITE” group of individuals should get into the Dog Pound?

110

At the very least, there should be pre-post moderation for new members and/or people with low post counts. The problem with the forums nowadays is that everyone asks the same questions, each of which have simple answers that could be learned by simply reading one of the many articles on this site.

And newbies need to learn about the Beginners forum. It’s there for a reason, yet no one understands that.

111

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
maybe what is needed is not a “dog pound” but stricter moderation, pre moderation, and more frequent movement of threads from the bodybuilding section to the beginners section…

I also think that there needs to be a “general” section for the topics that get thrown into bodybuilding or strength sports by default.

I like this idea, if there’s going to be an elitist group it should be mods.[/quote]

I also think that idea was the best by far, but it seemed to be dead on arrival.

112

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
<<< What would you guys think if CT all of a sudden took the same attitude toward most of us that many of you seem to have against newbies?

Just a thought…

Mufasa[/quote]

I, for one, am not against anybody including newbies. I also don’t know that I would call myself elite, (whatever that is, like you said) but I do make the enterprise of pushing whatever potential I have to it’s limits a priority and have within all reason engineered my life around that pursuit.

People with that mindset would simply like to be able to talk to each other, including like minded newbies, without being buried at every turn by guys who begin their conversations with the declaration [quote]“I don’t wanna be huge”[/quote].

That’s why I made the suggestion a while back that if their were somewhere for the “I don’t wanna be huge” guys to congregate it would free up the bodybuilding forum for… hold on… bodybuilding.

It reminds me of that stupid song from a few years back “Ya gotta keep em separated”. It’s not noobs that bother us and I think I speak for many in this regard. People who post even dumb questions in the beginner forum are treated like beginners, everybody starts somewhere. It’s the posts in the bodybuilding forum from people asking about everything in the world except how to get big and who many times even disparage those of us who are boneheaded enough to think that’s what a bodybuilding forum is for that get on people’s nerves.

Personally, I don’t care what the solution is, but I do really believe that this would be a better place for all, including the non bodybuilding people and T-Nation itself if there were a finer delineation of pursuits in the way the forums are named and or governed.

113

To all those who are against.

If the other members of the forum can VIEW the content then it will only benefit them and the whole community. An entire section with experienced lifters discussing bodybuilding can become a spectator attraction for a very large number of the newb crowd. The problem of information here(and on forums in general) is that everyone wants to talk, but nobody wants to fucking listen. With the Pound there will always be something to read besides the articles, something from the real world. Not to mention the long term benefits of attracting more experienced bodybuilders.

Without a serious bodybuilder to step in, the threads are pretty much useless newb-eat-newb wash. And at some point the forum just ceases being a commodity to this site. Seems like we’re at the bottom. Now, with a whole new section for decent bodybuilding info to read and learn from, how is it gonna get worse? If anything, I can see less incoherent posting in other forums and more general traffic.

114

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
maybe what is needed is not a “dog pound” but stricter moderation, pre moderation, and more frequent movement of threads from the bodybuilding section to the beginners section…

I also think that there needs to be a “general” section for the topics that get thrown into bodybuilding or strength sports by default.

I like this idea, if there’s going to be an elitist group it should be mods.

I also think that idea was the best by far, but it seemed to be dead on arrival. [/quote]

There were some notable later converts, but any plan that gives different people different places to talk unencumbered by the other groups gets a thumbs up from me.

115

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Personally, I don’t care what the solution is, but I do really believe that this would be a better place for all, including the non bodybuilding people and T-Nation itself if there were a finer delineation of pursuits in the way the forums are named and or governed.[/quote]

Agreed. I don’t mind that there are more than just bodybuilders on this site, but they need their own area. For instance, a few weeks back, there was a thread in the bodybuilding forum asking people about how to train for rock climbing or something. Pretty unnecessary.

That said, I would enjoy it too. I wouldn’t mind talking about athletics outside of bodybuilding, but subjects like that need their own area.

116

[quote]Padilla7921 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Personally, I don’t care what the solution is, but I do really believe that this would be a better place for all, including the non bodybuilding people and T-Nation itself if there were a finer delineation of pursuits in the way the forums are named and or governed.

Agreed. I don’t mind that there are more than just bodybuilders on this site, but they need their own area. For instance, a few weeks back, there was a thread in the bodybuilding forum asking people about how to train for rock climbing or something. Pretty unnecessary.

That said, I would enjoy it too. I wouldn’t mind talking about athletics outside of bodybuilding, but subjects like that need their own area.[/quote]

There have been threads asking about frisbee competitions, how to get smaller overall, my legs are too big, basketball, not to even mention the numerous threads declaring any real size to be anathema including ones ones flat out named “I don’t wanna be huge”. Basically, practically anything you could dream of at any general fitness site has found it’s way into the bodybuilding forum in the less than 2 years I’ve been around.

At times the entire first page has been given entirely over to threads that have nothing to do with bodybuilding by anybody,s definition (alright almost).

My contention has been that less hardcore people make up the majority of the population of the world based on TC’s own declaration and their invasion of public forums like these is inevitable and has now taken place. Finding some way for everybody to have their disciplines to themselves seems to be unavoidable at some point unless there is no desire at all for the the original forum dwellers to stay or return.

117

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
unless there is no desire at all for the the original forum dwellers to stay or return.[/quote]

That honestly seems to be the sentiment.

I am asking flat out, is this the case?

118

[quote]Padilla7921 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Personally, I don’t care what the solution is, but I do really believe that this would be a better place for all, including the non bodybuilding people and T-Nation itself if there were a finer delineation of pursuits in the way the forums are named and or governed.

Agreed. I don’t mind that there are more than just bodybuilders on this site, but they need their own area. For instance, a few weeks back, there was a thread in the bodybuilding forum asking people about how to train for rock climbing or something. Pretty unnecessary.

That said, I would enjoy it too. I wouldn’t mind talking about athletics outside of bodybuilding, but subjects like that need their own area.[/quote]

And didn’t someone start a friggin Kayaking thread in the BB forum a while back? I mean, WTF?!! I mean, no matter how you slice it, that type of shit just shouldn’t be allowed.

[quote]Majin wrote:
If the other members of the forum can VIEW the content then it will only benefit them and the whole community. An entire section with experienced lifters discussing bodybuilding can become a spectator attraction for a very large number of the newb crowd. The problem of information here(and on forums in general) is that everyone wants to talk, but nobody wants to fucking listen. With the Pound there will always be something to read besides the articles, something from the real world. Not to mention the long term benefits of attracting more experienced bodybuilders.[/quote]

This pretty much echoes my original thought. But that last sentence is a great point… if more bodybuilders are drawn to contribute, it only strengthens this site.

119

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
My contention has been that less hardcore people make up the majority of the population of the world based on TC’s own declaration and their invasion of public forums like these is inevitable and has now taken place. Finding some way for everybody to have their disciplines to themselves seems to be unavoidable at some point unless there is no desire at all for the the original forum dwellers to stay or return.[/quote]

Sounds about right. Now the question is about what specific forums they’re gonna create.

120

[quote]Majin wrote:
makkun wrote:
I vote ‘no’.

Sure, there’s lots of annoying (newbee and troll) folk here - I guess that’s just a fact of life on the Internet. But by retreating of the more ‘serious’ members into an ivory tower, don’t you think that overall standards on the rest of the boards will drop even more?

Actually no. The rest of the folks are still allowed to read, they just can’t post and therefore can’t annoy and clog-up good threads.

[/quote]

What would motivate dog pound members then to post in the rest of the forums? Nothing much. So my point still stands. It may lift the level within, but block out (perhaps valid) contributions of people on the outside and alienate those who consider themselves serious but don’t fulfil the criteria.

Again - I’ve always understood T-Nation as a ‘nation’ of people following a certain lifestyle. That pretty much hasn’t changed since the late nineties, when we were looking for likeminded individuals after the MM2K disaster.

Idiots come, and in most cases go again. Some stay, but getting annoyed by them so much that we want to bar them from our treehouse says more about us then about them.

Vets, posters and serious lifters here have moved into the realm of authors - that’s a special club in itself. Why try to build another one?

Makkun