I don’t think the vets will retreat from the boards in droves, but it would give them someplace to go with out getting into the needless debate of what is bodybuilding or “pyramid” training or any other of the recently debated topics…which is at the root of the problem. And even if they do go that route, we would still have people willing to help with advice and discuss all the various forum topics available.
I must say that I’m surprised to see only four posts cautioning against the pound. All of which made valid points of caution against going to an exclusionary system within a public setting.
I think the pound wont turn into an ivory tower, but rather a place where vets can post without the tons of bs that goes on rather than simply leaving the site as many have already done.
I agree with some of the “holistic approaches” cautioned by the dissenters. But those are more long-term solutions. I’d like knowledgeable, focused people to have a place to post in the meantime that keeps them from abandoning the site and contributing to the brain-drain.
Hai. I vote in favor.
Would provide more focus.
-chris
[quote]Qaash wrote:
it would give them someplace to go with out getting into the needless debate of …[/quote]
Or they (and we all) could choose to just NOT post on those threads… therefore letting them die.
it’s a condorcet paradox or maybe more accurately battered wife syndrome, we don’t want these threads to exist yet we keep enouraging them by posting on them, keeping them alive, and bumping them above more useful threads. Yet we complain that they exist all the while keeping them alive.
The Dog Pound isn’t a bad idea, I’m actually still somewhat for it… I’m just not completely sold on the party line that this will solve the problem.
Some follow-up:
-
Blaze, blaze BLAZE, my misguided Little Patawan…tell me, will you…WTF is, and how would you define, “ELITE”?
-
A lot the post remind me of people who advocate prohibition to “see how it will work…”
THE DOGG POUND WAS TRIED!
It DID lead to “elitism”, not only directed at other members, but toward “Testosterone” and "Biotest’! In some cases, some of those SAME PEOPLE are some of the most vocal critics of “Biotest” even now.
Can someone tell me why things would turn out different NOW???
I’m all ears!
Mufasa
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
<<< and The whole point of the Dog Pound is to let only the elite in. >>>
[/quote]
I’d be happy with anywhere people who want more than a bowflex body can converse without wading waist deep through posts from guys who think that’s icky.
I’m not entirely familiar with the original Dog Pound (though the idea sounds intriguing), but I’m hoping someone could clue me in on something:
What, exactly, would these vets be discussing? I think some people have the idea that, should such a forum exist, they would privy to a host of eye-opening, intelligent conversations related to bodybuilding, without the lame “Bulk or Cut?” noobs getting in the way.
Is bodybuilding really all that complicated? Is there more to be said than lift heavy shit, eat big, rest, rinse and repeat? If you are not trying to sell something to somebody, does it really get that much more complicated in the grand scheme of things?
I think it’s an interesting idea in that it would be a place for serious, like minded individuals to hang out amongst themselves, but, given that these vets must have already figured out what works for them (and isn’t that what it’s really all about?), how much actual discussion would there be?
From what I’ve gathered, most of the people here who have seen substantial progress usually agree on about 95%+ percent of what it takes to get big - making it seem to me as though such a forum would be more for ass-slapping and camaraderie than debate (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with - I’m just curious as to it’s purpose).
It’s not that hard to figure out how to win at the iron game - provided you keep your ears open and your mouth shut when the bigger guys give advice. I just don’t see it as being that complicated that a bunch of guys are going to suddenly come out of left field with brilliant advice that hasn’t already been posted on this forum.
Maybe some tricks and tips can be gleaned from such a forum, but I guess what I’m trying to ask is it going to be created for discussion, or camaraderie? Depending on it’s purpose, it would (I think) lead to different criteria for admittance, as I would think the latter (camaraderie) would be geared more towards those with passion for the game, as opposed to discussion, which is more for the educated and experienced.
Once again, not trying to stir shit, just curious. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Great point stronghold and nephorm, if it would encourage those to stay rather than leave, I believe it could be done in conjunction with other institutions… Though they’d probably leave anyway and I doubt “newbs” are the ENTIRE source of their frustration.
Believe me I understand the need for it, hell Thib puts up with a BUNCH of bullshit in his Physique Clinic threads (for instance guys LOVE to repost their questions which he hates) which pisses me off because eventually he or other coaches may not agree to do things like this anymore.
But how far does it go? Where do you draw the line? T-Nation isn’t a secret society of lifters, though I’m sure it feels that way at times.
As Qaash phrased it, an “exclusionary system within a public setting”, just doesn’t sit well with me. Especially not for:
T-Nation- Bodybuildings Think Tank
which implies a free flow of ideas whether good or bad
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Some follow-up:
-
Blaze, blaze BLAZE, my misguided Little Patawan…tell me, will you…WTF is, and how would you define, “ELITE”?
-
A lot the post remind me of people who advocate prohibition to “see how it will work…”
THE DOGG POUND WAS TRIED!
It DID lead to “elitism”, not only directed at other members, but toward “Testosterone” and "Biotest’! In some cases, some of those SAME PEOPLE are some of the most vocal critics of “Biotest” even now.
Can someone tell me why things would turn out different NOW???
I’m all ears!
Mufasa[/quote]
Nothing to add, this just bears repeating. yes re-read it.
Maybe what is needed is not a “dog pound” but stricter moderation, pre moderation, and more frequent movement of threads from the bodybuilding section to the beginners section…
I also think that there needs to be a “general” section for the topics that get thrown into bodybuilding or strength sports by default.
Won’t the same threads get pounded into the dirt, get hijacked, and turn into a pissing match even in there? Most of the pissing matches are between “vetted member” anyway.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
maybe what is needed is not a “dog pound” but stricter moderation, pre moderation, and more frequent movement of threads from the bodybuilding section to the beginners section…
I also think that there needs to be a “general” section for the topics that get thrown into bodybuilding or strength sports by default. [/quote]
That was my intention with the general fitness (or whatever) forum thread.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
THE DOGG POUND WAS TRIED!
It DID lead to “elitism”, not only directed at other members, but toward “Testosterone” and "Biotest’! In some cases, some of those SAME PEOPLE are some of the most vocal critics of “Biotest” even now.
Can someone tell me why things would turn out different NOW???
I’m all ears!
Mufasa[/quote]
Something needs to be done, Mufasa.
The Dog Pound would be different this time around because there is an actual need for it. Back in the day - this site was hardcore. You had an elite section on a hardcore site.
That is not the case today. All I’d like is to just have a hardcore section on a general fitness site.
I’m sick of the damn logs, the idiots that think the V-Diet is the savior of the world, and the dipshits who think that at 5"10, 21" legs are considered too big.
I would like to have a section where those morons are not allowed to pollute the threads.
Maybe the solution would be to give us an actual bodybuilding forum. Of course, this all goes back to what Tiri was suggesting.
Maybe T-Nation doesn’t care about its bodybuilders.
It was a dumb idea back in the day and it still is. BTW, I was an original dog pound member.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Something needs to be done, Mufasa.
[/quote]
This is what it boils down to. Something needs to be done. After months (years?) of bitching about this problem, TC seems to have offered to implement a solution.
So we can pick it apart and come up with reasons why it won’t work - and thereby get nothing, or we can try to make this particular solution work as well as possible.
This is the problem with democracy and with ruling by committee. Everyone always has well-intentioned reasons why a proposed solution won’t work. Which means nothing ever gets done.
I appreciate all the dissenting opinions, because I really do think you guys are well-intentioned. But I’d like you to stop and think about the fact that this is something that could actually be done. From a technical perspective, from a moderation perspective, and from a historical perspective, since this would not be much different from what was done in the past.
Let us not permit this to languish in committee.
YOU MEAN THE V-DIET AND COMPLEXES WITH JUST THE BARBELL WONT GET ME RIPPED LIKE RYAN REYNOLDS???
suicides self