Results From First Bulk at 43?

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]Jaybee wrote:
As I told you before, not if that 40+ fella started eating correctly only that year. You don’t have any precedents for me;, I’m the only bugger I’ve seen anywhere on the web that did that much training BEFORE cleaning his diet. There lies the difference.

But anyway, I will show you. I should be finished with my cut Oct/November (just wanna see some abs), and then I’ll put up measurements/photos here. Christmas 2012, Vs Christmas 2011.[/quote]

I turned 48 this summer. I didn’t spend the last twenty-five years screwing around. I have ‘rung every drop from the sponge’. There is body-comp video in my profile…I’ve squatted 3xBW in three different weight classes and deadlifted 3x in two. I am 5’10" and have weighed as much as 245-lifetime natural. My diet is always ‘bang-on’ bulk or cut.
O.P. you seem to think that eating 300 grams of protein a day and ‘squaring away’ your diet will somehow lead to great gains. While diet is certainly high priority, and ‘squaring away’ your program will help, at your(my) age you simply can no longer process the volume of food required to make the kind of progress you suggest. You may be able to make it a week, maybe a month…but month after month, year after year, no way. The same is true for your training. Example: I still lift heavy, I squat up to 500 at full depth for reps on a good day. In my late twenties and through my thirties I could do this every week, week after week, year after year. In my mid-forties I had to start an every other week approach, lately maybe every third. My ability to recover is unable to keep up with my desire to train. Your body can’t absorb the level of abuse at 45 like it can at 25 or 35(leg day for sure), declining biology has to be considered if you remain natural. If you do incurr an injury(and anyone training at the level required to progress is going to), it doesn’t cost a week or even a month in your mid to late forties, it hangs around and gets in the way of shit for three, four, up to six months(a half a year wasted on rehab over a shoulder strain). Five pounds of ‘new’ LBM on a lifter 40+ in a year is a rare thing. Serious weight training in your forties is not your friend!
I’m not pissing on your parade! You may have ‘top shelf’ genetics and be an exception. I’m all for a senior guy working hard and having goals. Perhaps you will uncover something the rest of us have missed. I look forward to following your progress.
[/quote]

Thank you, truly. The fact that the last two sentances are indeed the last tells me volumes. And yes, you’ll see that progress HERE. Kudos to you for overcoming your shoulder issue (I had one, and still have to work around it) and for hammering away at an age when most of your peers are whiling away Saturday afternoons on the Golf course.

42

Blue Collar - that new avi is great. Fantastic physique, and for 48?

Funny thing is the guy behind you - quite a comparison.

43

I think the biggest issue in this debate is simply people’s perceptions of what 10 or 20 pounds of lean muscle looks like. Also people’s perceptions of bodyfat %.

Generally guys underestimate their bodyfat % and overestimate how much muscle they are actually gaining. Gaining 5 pounds of muscle doesn’t sound like very much, but when you see the difference on a guy in contest shape, 5 pounds looks totally different. On a fatter guy, 5 lbs of muscle will definitely make him look bigger, but it won’t have the “wow” that it does on a guy at a true 5-6%.

For example, look at Bonez on this site. Guy only weighs 190 or so but he looks really big. I know part of it is because he’s short, but it’s also because he’s very lean. Same with Gregron, who never really gets respect for his physique, but >200 lbs at his level of bodyfat is also impressive. When X finishes leaning out, he’s going to look a lot crazier at 230 lbs lean than 280 lbs fat.

Obviously if you put Bonez and X in hoodies and stood them next to each other, X would dwarf Bonez. But the eventual goal here is to walk on stage in a banana hammock.

Basically what I’m saying is 10 lbs of muscle is a lot more than you think it is, and this is really evident on leaner guys.

44

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Blue Collar - that new avi is great. Fantastic physique, and for 48?

Funny thing is the guy behind you - quite a comparison. [/quote]

Thanks SkyNett…working hard at it!

45

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Blue Collar - that new avi is great. Fantastic physique, and for 48?

Funny thing is the guy behind you - quite a comparison. [/quote]

Thanks SkyNett…working hard at it! [/quote]

Well, keep it up.

If the posters in the Indigo group all looked like you, this would be one bad ass web site.

46

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Blue Collar - that new avi is great. Fantastic physique, and for 48?

Funny thing is the guy behind you - quite a comparison. [/quote]

Thanks SkyNett…working hard at it! [/quote]

Well, keep it up.

If the posters in the Indigo group all looked like you, this would be one bad ass web site.[/quote]

you are an inspiration to every young lifter out there, and an example to everyone who keep making excuses.

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:

If the posters in the Indigo group all looked like you, this would be one bad ass web site.[/quote]

At least the people at Biotest bootcamp are the cream of the Indigo group crop. Man, Synergy is just stupidly massive - he looks bigger now than he ever did. He must be a mastodon in person!! Lol…

48

Really good posts in here. I’d add also that in the past I really underestimated the level of strength needed for a certain look/size. Just going by the scales (especially when you’re quite chubby, and inexperienced with diet) is not good enough, and it leads to over-simplifying the bulking process (as if it’s just weight you’re affter and not really good strength gains).

It kind of takes away the credit and undermines those who really have put the time in (to underestimate how much 5lbs of pure muscle really is for example). Same goes for those claiming decent lifts when they’ve only put a year into it or whatever (like they pooh pooh a guy who’s worked up to a true, natural, 500lb lift).

49

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

If the posters in the Indigo group all looked like you, this would be one bad ass web site.[/quote]

At least the people at Biotest bootcamp are the cream of the Indigo group crop. Man, Synergy is just stupidly massive - he looks bigger now than he ever did. He must be a mastodon in person!! Lol…
[/quote]

He’s a machine.
Can’t get that photo out of my head with a grinning ashylarry sandwiched between synergy and hip scar.

Concerning OP:
In your case, I’d go with Teledin’s suggestion.
If that ain’t your style, you might wanna check out SteelyD’s training logs on this site who has chosen to bulk for a few years starting in his mid-30s. Dude did a great job and has really filled out, now.

50

I may only be 23 with 6 years experience notched on my belt, baby years compared to some guys here, but I do know a thing or two. Especially having done the all out bulk, with the hard cutting phase and into a lifestyle change which is where I am at now.

People with the discipline to diet down from a 40 lb bulk, and get into great shape, are in the vast minority.

I’m all for dreaming BIG but realism needs to be accounted for.

Are the odds against you? Yeah, but how much they are stacked is up to you. Shouldn’t have to repeat it, but I will, dropping 30 lbs @ early 20’s IS NOT EASY. The older you get, the harder it becomes.

My initial post was really to highlight that you could be very likely digging yourself into a hole that you can’t get out of. 10lb weight gain over a year though? That sounds quite solid to me. Even if half of that is body fat.

51

Great thread, I think this should be stickied and added to the Over 35 Lifter forum.

I fear that some of the older guys could come across this forum, read the “shut up and eat!” advice that is totally appropriate for someone half their age, and end up seeing 90% of their weight gains going to fat.

PX, Gregron, and the others are exactly right. If you want to get huge, start early, eat and lift big. if you’re starting later in life, be aggressive but also be realistic. Don’t eat like a 20 year old and expect to see big muscle gains with relatively little fat after dieting down. It’s possible at 20, but not at 40.

Eat enough over maintenance to grow, without expanding your waist line in the process. I agree that 5 pounds of muscle gain in a year is a great accomplishment for someone in their 40s.

What I’ve found is that my actual weight has increased very gradually, but my strength at 45 continues to grow and I regularly hit new records on my lifts.

52

[quote]FattyFat wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

If the posters in the Indigo group all looked like you, this would be one bad ass web site.[/quote]

At least the people at Biotest bootcamp are the cream of the Indigo group crop. Man, Synergy is just stupidly massive - he looks bigger now than he ever did. He must be a mastodon in person!! Lol…
[/quote]

He’s a machine.
Can’t get that photo out of my head with a grinning ashylarry sandwiched between synergy and hip scar.

[/quote]

Pic is fantastic.

Adam totally reminded me of Merry suiting up for battle with The Riders of Rohan in LOTR.
Look at his face! priceless.

There, my geek work and threadjack here is DONE.

53

[quote]forlife wrote:
Great thread, I think this should be stickied and added to the Over 35 Lifter forum.

I fear that some of the older guys could come across this forum, read the “shut up and eat!” advice that is totally appropriate for someone half their age, and end up seeing 90% of their weight gains going to fat.

PX, Gregron, and the others are exactly right. If you want to get huge, start early, eat and lift big. if you’re starting later in life, be aggressive but also be realistic. Don’t eat like a 20 year old and expect to see big muscle gains with relatively little fat after dieting down. It’s possible at 20, but not at 40.

Eat enough over maintenance to grow, without expanding your waist line in the process. I agree that 5 pounds of muscle gain in a year is a great accomplishment for someone in their 40s.

What I’ve found is that my actual weight has increased very gradually, but my strength at 45 continues to grow and I regularly hit new records on my lifts.[/quote]

I remember a few other websites populated largely by small guys desperate to get huge, and the advice they gave each other, “Just eat fucking ice cream if you’ve got nothing else, you MUST get the calories into you!!” For the fatties, it was rather like putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank…

That’s the crazy thing about this cosa nostra, brothers; biologically your best time to grow muscle is also the same one in life when you are the most distracted by girls, booze/parties, studies or forging your career (looking back in my case, all 4!!)

Anyway, like I said I made the choices I did, looking back there are certainly things I’d have changed, but no, being a full-time BB’er isn’t one of them. I only ever wanted a physique like Sagi Kalev, and I daresay I’ve gone past him in LMT. But friends, I’ve got muscle memory, I’ve got bodyparts I’ve hardly touched (traps, glutes, obliques etc), and I’ve got 20 years of lifting ingrained into fibres that, until a couple of weeks back, have never had anything more than civilian nutrition. And every non-steroid lifters friend, Creatine.

Just you wait. :slight_smile:

54

I’m sorry, but this is absolutely delusional… Kalev walks around at 5’9 and between 200 and 210 lean… I call bullshit on you being anywhere near that weight after dieting down… and, one last time, why do you think shitting away the majority of your training career has primed you for insane growth… we should market a lifetime of laziness and inconsistency as the next wonder drug…

Shit… I’m young, just graduated/am focusing on starting my career, still indulge in the fire water, but I still make a point to get my meals in and still make a point to never miss a single workout… and I also make it a point to constantly progress…

I don’t know why anybody treats this like it’s some fucking scientific endeavor that can be mastered in a year… when the secret is just keeping at it for an extended period of time (while, of course, optimizing one’s progress)

[quote]Jaybee wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Great thread, I think this should be stickied and added to the Over 35 Lifter forum.

I fear that some of the older guys could come across this forum, read the “shut up and eat!” advice that is totally appropriate for someone half their age, and end up seeing 90% of their weight gains going to fat.

PX, Gregron, and the others are exactly right. If you want to get huge, start early, eat and lift big. if you’re starting later in life, be aggressive but also be realistic. Don’t eat like a 20 year old and expect to see big muscle gains with relatively little fat after dieting down. It’s possible at 20, but not at 40.

Eat enough over maintenance to grow, without expanding your waist line in the process. I agree that 5 pounds of muscle gain in a year is a great accomplishment for someone in their 40s.

What I’ve found is that my actual weight has increased very gradually, but my strength at 45 continues to grow and I regularly hit new records on my lifts.[/quote]

I remember a few other websites populated largely by small guys desperate to get huge, and the advice they gave each other, “Just eat fucking ice cream if you’ve got nothing else, you MUST get the calories into you!!” For the fatties, it was rather like putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank…

That’s the crazy thing about this cosa nostra, brothers; biologically your best time to grow muscle is also the same one in life when you are the most distracted by girls, booze/parties, studies or forging your career (looking back in my case, all 4!!)

Anyway, like I said I made the choices I did, looking back there are certainly things I’d have changed, but no, being a full-time BB’er isn’t one of them. I only ever wanted a physique like Sagi Kalev, and I daresay I’ve gone past him in LMT. But friends, I’ve got muscle memory, I’ve got bodyparts I’ve hardly touched (traps, glutes, obliques etc), and I’ve got 20 years of lifting ingrained into fibres that, until a couple of weeks back, have never had anything more than civilian nutrition. And every non-steroid lifters friend, Creatine.

Just you wait. :)[/quote]

55

[quote]MickyGee wrote:
I’m sorry, but this is absolutely delusional… Kalev walks around at 5’9 and between 200 and 210 lean… I call bullshit on you being anywhere near that weight after dieting down… and, one last time, why do you think shitting away the majority of your training career has primed you for insane growth… we should market a lifetime of laziness and inconsistency as the next wonder drug…

Shit… I’m young, just graduated/am focusing on starting my career, still indulge in the fire water, but I still make a point to get my meals in and still make a point to never miss a single workout… and I also make it a point to constantly progress…

I don’t know why anybody treats this like it’s some fucking scientific endeavor that can be mastered in a year… when the secret is just keeping at it for an extended period of time (while, of course, optimizing one’s progress)

[/quote]

While this is true, it has already been said…by many others who also never quit training and managed to get big over time.

I will say this…you need the mindset that you can accomplish the extreme to get anywhere near it…and I also agree that the person who can do it doesn’t wait til 40 to start.

I would go as far as to say it is dangerous for the average person OVER 40 to approach a gain like a 20 year old and wouldn’t even recommend it without blood work and monitoring.

You can eat 2 pizzas, 6 beers and 4 hamburgers over the course of a day when you are 20 and you will likely just gain an inch on your biceps if you have the genetics for this. That ain’t happening at 40.

But I also don’t plan on trying to decrease someone’s motivation.

I am pretty sure the real message got across to people who actually want to hear it.

It’s been said…if you want to be the Incredible Hulk, you had better be close to looking like Superman by 30.

56

I don’t think anyone is attacking his motivation, we’re just trying to help him be realistic about his goals. The danger of naive motivation is that when you don’t achieve the muscle growth you expect, or bulk up only to realize you’ve mostly gained fat, it’s easy to become discouraged and drop out of the race entirely.

Be realistic, given your age and genetics, but bust your ass to make the most of what you have. The good news is that age doesn’t have to hold you back, and you can still see great gains well into your 40s and 50s.

57

By his logic i think i should just wait till in 40 to be the new hulk. I mean muscle memory, all that 20 years not making progress, booze, girls and work will all account for something, right?

Sometimes i think everybody in T-Nation are really successful millionaires because they never have time on their schedule to do something for like 1 hour 5 days a week and eat.

I would love to be big, but you know? i’ve got a 80h a week job, 40 hours studying medicine and 20 hours helping poor kittens who got hit by cars, lifting is secondary. But darn it! When i’m 40 i will have all the muscle memory from lifting once a week and not making gains!

58

[quote]forlife wrote:
I don’t think anyone is attacking his motivation, we’re just trying to help him be realistic about his goals. The danger of naive motivation is that when you don’t achieve the muscle growth you expect, or bulk up only to realize you’ve mostly gained fat, it’s easy to become discouraged and drop out of the race entirely.

Be realistic, given your age and genetics, but bust your ass to make the most of what you have. The good news is that age doesn’t have to hold you back, and you can still see great gains well into your 40s and 50s.[/quote]

And indeed, that’s precisely what WILL happen with me next year. We’re just all arguing (well, I’m not, I’m simply stating a fact) about what constitutes “great” at my age. And again, I’m NOT saying I will slam on 3-4Lbs LMT per month in 2012 as if I were 18 but doing everything right this time; I AM saying that unlike most other fellas my age, my tendons have gotten used to lifting heavy, I’m starving-marvin every 3 hours now (though when I was 20 the hunger pangs were ferocious!!) my muscles are finaly getting the nutrition they need - and guess what? These last two weeks, I’ve gotten BIGGER. Though I’m actually on a cut, everything’s larger. My biceps jumped to 17.5" from 17.1" and my upper arms are my most lagging bodypart.

Bottom line here is, all this crap about, “You can’t gain huge amounts per year after 40” applies to 40-somethings who either don’t have the motivation or who have already put in the work, BOTH in the gym and the dinner table. And yes, about 98% of 40+ guys here fall into one camp or the other. Either the start is crap, or they’ve already “wrung every last drop out of the rag”, as one old coot further back put it. A friend of mine slightly older than me started out last year, barely 150Lbs soaking wet, made some pretty good gains, though he eats a civilian diet. But the KEY difference here is, he didn’t put in the training over 20 years - I have.

I’m of the other 2% of that silent minority. What happens when a 40-something who hasn’t had the fuel puts the RIGHT fuel in? Nobody here knows, because 1), most of the dudes here are kids, and 2) my actual peers aren’t reading, let alone talking.

Yeah, move this thread to 35+.

59

you may need to check your medication.

Gee, all that progress in 2 weeks? i wonder if you can hit the 1 year straight training mark. Don’t forget to post some pics

60

Plenty of older people have chimed in, but that still doesn’t change the fact that people aren’t trying to keep you down - there just hasn’t been one person yet inclined to agree with you…

Also, my dad doesn’t and has never lifted… has about 20 years on you… and is undoubtedly stronger than you with your 20+ years of training experience… I am not even claiming he is some sort of genetic freak… he’s pretty average…

I think I’m not alone when I say most people who aren’t even making terribly good progress will have surpassed you within their first year of lifting… no matter their age… without getting fat…

…and you did not already surpass a professional fitness model in LBM… regardless of what you think and whatever drugs they’re feeding you…

Edit: this thread title should be changed to ineedtosuckmyownd-nation.com… why ask for advice if you aren’t going to take it?

…and why does every single member here feel like they are the lone solemn monk in their own little temple of iron… shit is absurd.

OP needs a kick in the ass… not a pat on the back…

[quote]Jaybee wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
I don’t think anyone is attacking his motivation, we’re just trying to help him be realistic about his goals. The danger of naive motivation is that when you don’t achieve the muscle growth you expect, or bulk up only to realize you’ve mostly gained fat, it’s easy to become discouraged and drop out of the race entirely.

Be realistic, given your age and genetics, but bust your ass to make the most of what you have. The good news is that age doesn’t have to hold you back, and you can still see great gains well into your 40s and 50s.[/quote]

And indeed, that’s precisely what WILL happen with me next year. We’re just all arguing (well, I’m not, I’m simply stating a fact) about what constitutes “great” at my age. And again, I’m NOT saying I will slam on 3-4Lbs LMT per month in 2012 as if I were 18 but doing everything right this time; I AM saying that unlike most other fellas my age, my tendons have gotten used to lifting heavy, I’m starving-marvin every 3 hours now (though when I was 20 the hunger pangs were ferocious!!) my muscles are finaly getting the nutrition they need - and guess what? These last two weeks, I’ve gotten BIGGER. Though I’m actually on a cut, everything’s larger. My biceps jumped to 17.5" from 17.1" and my upper arms are my most lagging bodypart.

Bottom line here is, all this crap about, “You can’t gain huge amounts per year after 40” applies to 40-somethings who either don’t have the motivation or who have already put in the work, BOTH in the gym and the dinner table. And yes, about 98% of 40+ guys here fall into one camp or the other. Either the start is crap, or they’ve already “wrung every last drop out of the rag”, as one old coot further back put it. A friend of mine slightly older than me started out last year, barely 150Lbs soaking wet, made some pretty good gains, though he eats a civilian diet. But the KEY difference here is, he didn’t put in the training over 20 years - I have.

I’m of the other 2% of that silent minority. What happens when a 40-something who hasn’t had the fuel puts the RIGHT fuel in? Nobody here knows, because 1), most of the dudes here are kids, and 2) my actual peers aren’t reading, let alone talking.

Yeah, move this thread to 35+.[/quote]