[quote]pat wrote:
Why do we always have questions for Christian? Why not questions for non-believers?[/quote]
Because current pop culture tells us to think you are the weird one.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Of course, be good to the migrants and refugees in your midst.
[/quote]
But what about actively letting them in including things like amnesty.
Isn’t that what he’s saying?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Of course, be good to the migrants and refugees in your midst.
[/quote]
But what about actively letting them including things like amnesty.
Isn’t that what he’s saying?[/quote]
Not really. He’s being vague on purpose, as each nation and situation has different considerations. He certainly suggests we need to be humane in dealing with undocumented workers for instance. And maybe that entails some accommodation for families that are already established here in their communities. See Gingrich’s argument vs. Romney’s silly all or nothing approach. We should be welcoming, but he isn’t saying this means we have no need for immigration services.
In a way we have nobody but ourselves to blame. Want dirt cheap foodstuffs, housing, and lawn care? So you can than buy your often foreign-made higher gadgets? Want to displace native workers for it, so you don’t have to pay a higher cost for these things? Well, some (as in many) of our good ole’ free-market brethren have incentivized people poor enough, or oppressed enough, to risk coming here for a wage we wouldn’t accept.
[quote]pat wrote:
Why do we always have questions for Christian? Why not questions for non-believers?[/quote]
You could always start a thread to that end.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Ask away. I’m not here to convert you; far from it. For one I’m hopelessly unqualified. I’ll leave this thread for a while and see how it turns out. Hopefully more enlightened folk will answer your questions.[/quote]
Whats the deal with heaven what do you do all day for eternitiy? Do you have clothes, use the bathroom, watch TV?
How come animals cant get in?
What about cavemen do they get a pass?
What about aliens maybe they never heard of Jesus?
Do you eat in heaven? If so what?
If you get tired of heaven can you get re-born as something?
Are you stuck with your wife for eternity in heaven or now that your “dead” can you play the field again with dead exs and single ladies?
Do you sleep in heaven or are you up 24/7 with relatives doing what?
Wouldnt heaven run out of space at some point?
Do I get to pick my house style, car ect?
How do all the angels and saints process the volume of dead? Standing in line for a few 100 years sounds like hell.
These are things as a agnostic I think about which makes the traditional theory of a afterlife seem unbelievable…[/quote]
Didn’t know their was a ‘traditional theory’ of it. What is it?
[/quote]
So what do you (insert religion here) believe happens in heaven? What do you do for eternity?
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Ask away. I’m not here to convert you; far from it. For one I’m hopelessly unqualified. I’ll leave this thread for a while and see how it turns out. Hopefully more enlightened folk will answer your questions.[/quote]
Whats the deal with heaven what do you do all day for eternitiy? Do you have clothes, use the bathroom, watch TV?
How come animals cant get in?
What about cavemen do they get a pass?
What about aliens maybe they never heard of Jesus?
Do you eat in heaven? If so what?
If you get tired of heaven can you get re-born as something?
Are you stuck with your wife for eternity in heaven or now that your “dead” can you play the field again with dead exs and single ladies?
Do you sleep in heaven or are you up 24/7 with relatives doing what?
Wouldnt heaven run out of space at some point?
Do I get to pick my house style, car ect?
How do all the angels and saints process the volume of dead? Standing in line for a few 100 years sounds like hell.
These are things as a agnostic I think about which makes the traditional theory of a afterlife seem unbelievable…[/quote]
Didn’t know their was a ‘traditional theory’ of it. What is it?
[/quote]
So what do you (insert religion here) believe happens in heaven? What do you do for eternity?
[/quote]
I know this wasn’t directed at me but your idea of heaven sounds distinctly Islamic. Why would a secular ‘HebrewHero’ be asking questions like this? Ever see anyone in any condition die? I have plenty of times. No matter how sick or how much they think they seek the end, their brainstem always desperately fights for breath. The life-force is stronger than you could ever imagine,
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Of course, be good to the migrants and refugees in your midst.
[/quote]
But what about actively letting them in including things like amnesty.
Isn’t that what he’s saying?[/quote]
Because mostly non- believers are completely unaware of how the Middle Eastern and Mediterranean civilisations evolved and how archaeological evidence and first hand accounts of historians like Josephus make for an incredible case. But of course all these clever dicks, who are SO much smarter than us(not to mention having read the bible 114 times and rejected it) can indulge in puerile, mocking questions to add meaning to their own futile lives.
BTW just about the earliest bible history is supported by archaeology and hieroglyphics. Pharaoh Ahmoses captured the Israelites, worked them like dogs and Ahamoses’ son Tutamoses II’s records record a war with Israel nearly 3500 years ago. Why would a people make up such a humble story about being captured as slaves as opposed to being descended from nobility or Gods like the Greeks and Romans claimed?
BTW MODS: Double post
[quote]Cortes wrote:
stuff[/quote]
OH SHIIIIIIT
Where have you been?
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
A small mind is easily filled with faith.[/quote]
Take it from a former Militant Atheist who has grown up, still not religious, but actually mature.
You will look back at this statement in some point in your not to distant future and see it is you with the small mind making claims like the quoted above. You post like a smart enough and self aware enough person to see it one day, so I trust you will.
[/quote]
Since his post was about children, I figured he meant small as in a childs mind.
[/quote]
Yea, just referring to children. Beans is very correct though if the statement were used in that context.
That was just part of my struggle with the concept of raising children from birth into Christianity. A child’s mind is so quick to accept religion unquestioningly, but I wonder if this actually creates issues later on when they, for lack of a better phrase, gain the ability to doubt it.
Having said that, I cannot claim to have a preferable alternative. It would seem incredibly strange for Christian parents to shield their offspring against religion until they were “old enough”.
I was raised into Christianity and lost my faith around high school, never to reclaim it. My biggest doubt, which proved insurmountable, was when I started thinking about how so many things God did seemed less like the actions of a god and more like the actions of a petulant child. Listen, I sincerely apologize to my Christian friends reading that. I do not mean offense to you. I know that is a pretty blasphemous statement.
But anyway there was so much petty bullshit that God did and said in the bible. He’s incredibly jealous, spiteful, passive aggressive even. I could not come to grips with an omnipotent being of infinite, unknowable vastness lowering itself to such base emotions. Thus I concluded that there must be no God after all.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
BTW just about the earliest bible history is supported by archaeology and hieroglyphics. [/quote]
Is there any support for the divinity claims outside of the bible?
It kind of bothers me how raising a child according to a certain set of religious precepts is considered “pushing” religion on the child with all of the negative connotations that that word brings. Choosing to raise a child in a particular religion is no different than choosing to teach your children not to steal, not to kill, to be kind to others, to eat healthily, to wear a coat in the winter, etc.
You could just as easily say that you shouldn’t “push” these ideas/practices on your kids. Part of my job as a parent is to teach my children things that I think are important and that will help them in their lives. If they choose to wear a Speedo in January to shovel the snow, or to eat nothing but cotton candy 3 times a day when they are adults, I have no right to criticise. They will be old enough to make these decisions on their own. However, as a child, it is my duty to raise them in the way that I feel best sets them up for a good life.
[quote]CMdad wrote:
However, as a child, it is my duty to raise them in the way that I feel best sets them up for a good life. [/quote]
The problem is that it should not be based on what you feel is best but what you know, to the best of your knowledge, is best.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]CMdad wrote:
However, as a child, it is my duty to raise them in the way that I feel best sets them up for a good life. [/quote]
The problem is that it should not be based on what you feel is best but what you know, to the best of your knowledge, is best. [/quote]
Exactly. As a practicing Catholic, I know to the best of my knowledge that living the Christian faith is the best way to live your life. I think this is where the disconnect is between “believers” and “non-believers”. Believers (whatever the faith is) cannot understand how non-believers can’t see the veracity of their religion and, non-believers cannot understand how believers have their beliefs.
[quote]csulli wrote:
but I wonder if this actually creates issues later on when they, for lack of a better phrase, gain the ability to doubt it.[/quote]
If ti would create issues, it is issues that were supposed to be created.
Think about it. If an omnipotent being created mankind, mankind was created with the ability (some would argue the propensity) to doubt and wonder. Therefore we’re supposed to question. Which means, whether it is a test to see if you “come back” or “stay with” that being or some other form of whatever, it is all still part of your relationship with that being.
As in, we were given free will for a reason. Using it isn’t a problem, what it is used for would be the only place where the issue comes in.
I grew up in a very Militant Atheist household.
If raising a kid catholic is damaging and close minded, so is the way I was raised.
[quote]pat wrote:
Well how would one do that? Are you going to sit down with your kids and educate them on all beliefs giving each a fair and equitable shake and then allow them to choose? Who does that?
A christian raises their children Christian, A muslim raises their kids Mulism and an atheist raises their kids atheist. These is only choice, not a lack of one. And which ever one of these you are, that is how you will bring up your kids. So in as much as a Christian pushes Christianity on their children, an Atheist pushes Atheism on their kids. I don’t think this is something anybody can honestly deny.[/quote]
My boy goes to church with my wife every Sunday and I make it a point not to interfere or say anything critical. I even occasionally go for appearances, although I feel a bit dishonest when I do. Christianity is part of his family culture and I certainly don’t view his going to church as harmful. At some point I suspect he is going to ask me some pointed questions and I’m not going to lie to him if he asks the right questions, but I’m certainly going to choose my words carefully out of respect for my wife. Ultimately, it is going to be his choice what path to follow and I don’t feel like I need to shove my beliefs or lack thereof down his throat. Where I draw the line is I have several anti-science young earthers in my family, and I just can’t tolerate that shit.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I grew up in a very Militant Atheist household.
If raising a kid catholic is damaging and close minded, so is the way I was raised. [/quote]
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates left unbarred and unguarded.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
BTW just about the earliest bible history is supported by archaeology and hieroglyphics. [/quote]
Is there any support for the divinity claims outside of the bible?
[/quote]
Literally hundreds of thousands of people. Not hearsay. Actual witnesses.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
BTW just about the earliest bible history is supported by archaeology and hieroglyphics. [/quote]
Is there any support for the divinity claims outside of the bible?
[/quote]
There is no factual evidence to be found in the Bible or outside of it. It is all perception, interpretation and hearsay. Even if Jesus existed and he performed the miracles attributed to him the witnesses to those miracles still had to interpret that evidence as proof he was the son of God. In other words, their belief was still based on faith.