Religious Questions from Atheists or Agnostics

[SexMachine]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
@push I can see why JB never discusses Christianity. I hope I did 't piss you off. I have great respect for you, especially those DLs you pull off. Let’s just stick to politics or religion that won’t offend. PS it must really piss you off airing my opinions when such a short time ago I was about as ignorant as you can get on the subject. That’s why I try to remain humble and admit I may be wrong.

PS I’m not one of those types who claim to have read the bible when they clearly haven’t. I’ve read the OT twice in the last two months and in the past I’ve read the gospels/acts, Romans, Hebrews and as much of revelations as I could digest.[/quote]

Oh you don’t piss me off at all. Don’t even worry about it. For one thing you don’t come at this like the typical taunting, sneering atheist.

Ask away.

As far as Genesis 3:15 I don’t know what the Jews do with that verse. I know for sure that Christians look at it as The introductory passage to the Redeemer. It is THERE He is first prophesied.

The Old and New Testaments, i.e., the Bible, are to be seen as one book with one central theme – Redemption.

Genesis, the book of beginnings, lays it all out:

God created the universe perfect including man, his crowning achievement in creation and the one creature created in His image and meant to directly commune with Him.

Man blew it with his free will choice of sin.

All men since then have blown it with their free will choice of sin.

Thus, because of man’s sin and now inherent inability to commune with Him as originally planned, the only way way to build the bridge back to Him was for Him to send a redeemer.

Genesis 3:15 suggests this redeemer’s heel would be “bruised.” This happened at the crucifixion. But alas, a bruised heel is not a fatal blow. Christ rose again.

However, the verse also states the redeemer would bruise the head of the serpent, i.e., Satan. A head bruise is a fatal blow.

So what we have here at the beginning is the schematic for how God would defeat Satan and defeat sin. It is the plan for the ages. It tells the ending to what had just occurred in the garden.

The rest of the Old Testament, simply put, is the story of the conduit of the Redeemer. That conduit is Adam, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Jacob/Israel, Judah, David >>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ.

The beginning of the New Testament describes the first coming of the Messiah/Redeemer; the middle tells of the mechanism put in place to tell the good news of the Messiah/Redeemer to the Gentiles/world, i.e., the church; the end tells of the Messiah/Redeemer’s second coming where both the Jews and Gentiles who have believed in Him will be gathered to Him both physically and spiritually and Satan and Sin will be vanquished forever…just like Genesis 3:15 said way back yonder…at the beginning.[/quote]

I’ll respond to this later after a rest. I have my facsimile 1611 King James in Middle English. My Stone edition Tanach, jps jewish study bible and Rashi’s Torah with commentaries to sort through. Could take some time

[zecarlo]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Its human nature to be a free thinker. Only sheep blindly follow. At a certain age its normal to question reality and death. For me I have a hard time believing books written by men 3500 years ago which somehow gather we are created in Gods image or are the center of the universe. So all life in the universe is inferior? Not to mention creation which claims the Earth is only about 4000 years old. I have rocks in my yard older than that. Religion served its purpose in the early days by explaining the unexplainable in the dawn of man. It also gave law and order and doctrines to live by. All current regions seem to claim they know best and if you dont join their club you burn or youre not chosen. Which seems good for business since 10% is the going rate for being saved. However I feel as a grown man in a modern era Ive put away my childish concepts & ancient rituals as I have no need for them. I can be a good human being without buying into fairy tales. I choose not to dump money in a wicker basket for some dudes Cadillac payments. If I am to believe in a greater power its something more universal that encompasses the cosmos and all that live in it.

I dont need books suedo leaders or others to feel as I do or confirm my beliefs. Nor do I need silly rituals like separating dishes or not eating certain animals. I feel its unfair to assume we are the best things out there and others must perish if they dont believe as I. [/quote]

Jesus H.

This is a thread about questions for religious people, not a thread for you to brandish your Militant Atheist membership card in some feeble attempt to reassure yourself you actually know better than anyone, everything.

Can we please leave this kind of nonsense and pointless bashing out of this thread.

These type of driveby, lazy, flawed posts are not what this thread is about. [/quote]
Not only that but he is wrong. It is not human nature to be a free thinker. It goes against evolution.

[SexMachine]

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

I dont(sic) need books [/quote]

Uh huh…

[zecarlo]

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

I dont(sic) need books [/quote]

Uh huh…

[/quote]
Kwoat funkchun tu hard.

[therajraj]

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What’re your thoughts on the pope commanding the west to welcome migrants?

http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=53935[/quote]
Firstly, you don’t want an answer. You’re baiting again. Secondly you would likely cause disharmony in this thread; likely your intent.[/quote]

You’re one strange dude.

Can’t answer it? That’s okay I’ll live.

[SexMachine]

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What’re your thoughts on the pope commanding the west to welcome migrants?

http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=53935[/quote]
I’m not even a catholic! Why not ask a Hindu why they drink cholera ridden water from the Ganges, consider cows holy, burn their wives alive and have a caste system tantamount to slavery?

[SexMachine]

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What’re your thoughts on the pope commanding the west to welcome migrants?

http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=53935[/quote]
I’m not even a catholic! Why not ask a Hindu why they drink cholera ridden water from the Ganges, consider cows holy, burn their wives alive and have a caste system tantamount to slavery?[/quote]

[therajraj]

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What’re your thoughts on the pope commanding the west to welcome migrants?

http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=53935[/quote]
I’m not even a catholic! Why not ask a Hindu why they drink cholera ridden water from the Ganges, consider cows holy, burn their wives alive and leave a caste system tantamount to slavery?[/quote]

I know. Plus India should just change their national flag to a woman being gang raped and get it over with.

What else ya got? Other than being incapable of answering my question of course.

Funny, my question had no animus attached, and this thread is devolving as a result of your posts.

[SexMachine]

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What’re your thoughts on the pope commanding the west to welcome migrants?

http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=53935[/quote]
I’m not even a catholic! Why not ask a Hindu why they drink cholera ridden water from the Ganges, consider cows holy, burn their wives alive and leave a caste system tantamount to slavery?[/quote]

I know. Plus India should just change their national flag to a woman being gang raped and get it over with.

What else ya got? Other than being incapable of answering my question of course.

Funny, my question had no animus attached, and this thread is devolving as a result of your posts.

[/quote]

Ok I’ll answer your question. I didn’t want to offend the Catholics here but the pope is a kindly, naive old man possibly suffering dementia. There you got your answer and achieved your goal of dividing the believers here; not what this thread is about.

[pat]

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Were you born into your religion?
[/quote]
Yes

Have you ever entertained the idea of dropping your own religion and taking up another? If so, why? If not, why?

I did something different. As a purely intellectual experiment I put all my beliefs in a ‘little box’ off to the side and considered what others had to say. I considered the logic of disbelief, carefully. And I rebuilt my faith from the ground up from the basis of: Is there any good reason to believe there is a God?
The philosophical arguments for disbelief were uncompelling but it gave me a life long interest in disbelief from a philosophical standpoint. And it gave me a grounding. Most of what I believe to be the nucleus of people’s beliefs are ego. On both sides of the argument.
Despite what ‘the truth’ is, one is going to believe what they believe as a service to the self. Reconciling one’s self to truth, as it is unwashed, is a difficult thing to do and requires humility and the abandoning of self.
My questions weren’t ‘which faith’ but ‘why faith’

Do you, or do you plan on pushing religion onto your children? I say pushing since it’s usually not a choice whether they go to Church or not. If so how do you justify it?

I don’t push my faith on anybody. My children are brought up as I believe the right way to bring up children is. And what ever your belief system, you are going to share it and it will be a part of your children’s lives whether that be belief or a lack of one.
I don’t force them to do anything. But they are children and I am their given parent and it’s my job to bring them up the best way I can. That includes faith.

[quote]
If you plan on waiting to give your children a choice, at what age do you think it’s appropriate? [/quote]

Well how would one do that? Are you going to sit down with your kids and educate them on all beliefs giving each a fair and equitable shake and then allow them to choose? Who does that?

A christian raises their children Christian, A muslim raises their kids Mulism and an atheist raises their kids atheist. These is only choice, not a lack of one. And which ever one of these you are, that is how you will bring up your kids. So in as much as a Christian pushes Christianity on their children, an Atheist pushes Atheism on their kids. I don’t think this is something anybody can honestly deny.

[pat]

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I propose the brilliant to me idea that raising a child as a Christian in what is a Christian home is quite the model of common sense.[/quote]

Nah, we’re so stupid. Preaching love and family values, the dignity and value of each person, right and wrong, trust and unconditional love, etc. It’s a foolish way to raise kids. Seriously, who want’s a strong family after all?
The degradation of the family in this country has been going on for decades and nobody seems to be screwed up from that…It’s a myth!

[pat]

[quote]csulli wrote:
I have always wondered about the situation between religion and children. I mean surely you all know how it happens for like 99% of everyone. Their parents push religion on them as children. They start having doubts in high school. They go to college and stop believing and stop going to church. They get married and have children. They push religion on their children and start going to church again because they think that’s the best way to raise their children with proper morals. And maybe they’re not wrong. I mean there are a plethora of moral lessons to be learned from church. It’s just an interesting cycle that I see.

A small mind is easily filled with faith.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s how it works. No wonder Christianity has been around for 2000 years.

I’d say a small mind is that which believes that the comfortable life they enjoy is the end all be all of existence and so long as your life is so comfy, who needs God?
It’s a wasted argument on the suffering. Everything you have, everything you are can be destroyed in the fraction of a second.
I think too few ever think about how delicate life is.

[Sloth]

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What’re your thoughts on the pope commanding the west to welcome migrants?

http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=53935[/quote]

I guess I’m not getting an answer?[/quote]

Of course, be good to the migrants and refugees in your midst. A solution should be found for illegals/undocumented. I thought it hilarious watching Romney go after Gingrich for suggesting there needed to be compromise of some sort for the undocumented who’d long been members of their communities.

[Sloth]

Oh this hog wash about not raising your children as Christians. They’ll make up some garbage about how your child should be approached neutrally in your household, and then turn around and instruct your children in a public school with their morality, even when it conflicts with yours.

[pat]

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Continuing to reject what God has revealed to you (blaspheming the Holy Spirit).

*edited
[/quote]

[quote]Zen Taco wrote:

The bible says the unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the holy spirit. This has been describe as bringing about accusations against the holy spirit that it’s the work of the devil, denying it/the gift of salvation repeatedly, etc.
[/quote]

[quote]Sloth wrote:

2. Mark 3:29: But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.
   [/quote]

So does that mean you have to forgive everything else?[/quote]

I think it’s safe to say that I’ve “blasphemed the holy spirit”, correct? So why the fuck should I bother seeking your god? I’m pretty much fucked, according to your little book.

(not directed at you, Beans just the other quotes)[/quote]

Well what you done or who you’ve done it to, nobody can really judge.

I think I am on solid ground saying you’re just an angry little asshole and religion or not, that’s worth changing. Seriously what’s the point of it?

“Oh AC called me a stupid fucktard, guess I better rethink my position…” Yeah, that’s not going to happen.

[pat]

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Oh this hog wash about not raising your children as Christians. They’ll make up some garbage about how your child should be approached neutrally in your household, and then turn around and instruct your children in a public school with their morality, even when it conflicts with yours. [/quote]

It’s a pretty absurd argument to say a Christian should raise their children agnostic and let them decide later. That’s just ignorant.

[pat]

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Ask away. I’m not here to convert you; far from it. For one I’m hopelessly unqualified. I’ll leave this thread for a while and see how it turns out. Hopefully more enlightened folk will answer your questions.[/quote]

Whats the deal with heaven what do you do all day for eternitiy? Do you have clothes, use the bathroom, watch TV?
How come animals cant get in?
What about cavemen do they get a pass?
What about aliens maybe they never heard of Jesus?
Do you eat in heaven? If so what?
If you get tired of heaven can you get re-born as something?
Are you stuck with your wife for eternity in heaven or now that your “dead” can you play the field again with dead exs and single ladies?
Do you sleep in heaven or are you up 24/7 with relatives doing what?
Wouldnt heaven run out of space at some point?
Do I get to pick my house style, car ect?
How do all the angels and saints process the volume of dead? Standing in line for a few 100 years sounds like hell.

These are things as a agnostic I think about which makes the traditional theory of a afterlife seem unbelievable…[/quote]

Didn’t know their was a ‘traditional theory’ of it. What is it?

[pat]

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Its human nature to be a free thinker. Only sheep blindly follow. At a certain age its normal to question reality and death. For me I have a hard time believing books written by men 3500 years ago which somehow gather we are created in Gods image or are the center of the universe. So all life in the universe is inferior? Not to mention creation which claims the Earth is only about 4000 years old. I have rocks in my yard older than that. Religion served its purpose in the early days by explaining the unexplainable in the dawn of man. It also gave law and order and doctrines to live by. All current regions seem to claim they know best and if you dont join their club you burn or youre not chosen. Which seems good for business since 10% is the going rate for being saved. However I feel as a grown man in a modern era Ive put away my childish concepts & ancient rituals as I have no need for them. I can be a good human being without buying into fairy tales. I choose not to dump money in a wicker basket for some dudes Cadillac payments. If I am to believe in a greater power its something more universal that encompasses the cosmos and all that live in it.

I dont need books suedo leaders or others to feel as I do or confirm my beliefs. Nor do I need silly rituals like separating dishes or not eating certain animals. I feel its unfair to assume we are the best things out there and others must perish if they dont believe as I. [/quote]

So if they are free thinkers why are there so many sheep? Can’t have it both ways if you want to make generalizations.[/quote]

Who are the sheep? Christians or the seculars who follow the media, celebrities, sports stars and go along with whatever happens to be popular at the moment?
I mean it’s so uncool to be uncool. The only way to be cool is to alas, follow the herd.

[pat]

Why do we always have questions for Christian? Why not questions for non-believers?

[therajraj]

[quote]pat wrote:
Why do we always have questions for Christian? Why not questions for non-believers?[/quote]

Have you tried asking?