Religious Controversies: Homosexuality

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I might be one of the minority Christians that would actually like to give Homosexuals marriage rights. They have everything equal to Hetrosexuals right now, except marriage. My idea of Homosexuals getting legally married forces them to go through the legal channels to get a divorce which protects the rights of partners.

Also it will get rid of the idea of paying for Health Benefits for room mates. It would force this country to pay for legally binded individuals only and not people shacking up with each other, this is including heterosexuals. You want to get Health Care Costs down this is how you do it.

The Bible is clear that Homosexuality is a sin, and it looks like we all agree with this. The question is how should Homosexuals be treated in society? Everyone should be treated equally. [/quote]

…church weddings in Holland aren’t legally binding. I believe the US is the only western nation that allows legally binding church weddings, but i could be wrong. Dutch government ruled that a civil servant can’t deny service based on religious grounds. Just FYI…

182

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

LOL

This reminds me of the joke about the guy who notices ten dollars missing from his bank account statement. Waits for an hour to see someone about it, gets everything straightened out, and towards the end the clerk says “You know, I’m looking back on your records, and last week we made an error that put a hundred extra dollars in your account.” The man replies “Yes, well, I can accept the occasional error, but two weeks in a row is just unacceptable!”

Its disingenuous of you to take issue with the accuracy of those you disagree with while ignoriing glaring inaccuracies of those on the same side of the table as you. You’re concern clearly isn’t about who is informed or misinformed.

[/quote]

LMAO - this reminds me of the time I went to Tahiti with Bob and Penolope. Bob is a midget and Penelope has this thing for low level company, Personally i just love watching Bob rie around on Penelope’s back, digging in those spurs and yelling at the top of his lungs while he swings his purple and gold lariat around his head. Even more fun if he is trying to do this in the rain because Penelope gets really slippery when she’s wet, but I digress. getting Penelope through customs is always a hassle. The security personnel just keep staring at her legs and ass and asking me how she is supposed to fit into an airplane seat. and I just say that for a donkey, she’s surprisingly flexible. but invariably that make me stick her into Animal cargo - such prejuidicial treatment of Bob’s best friend is really insulting to Bob - he went all ape shit on their asses, which was really funny because he is a chimpanze and man those little devils can tear you up with they get upset, this of course resulted in Bob being handcuffed, muzzled, (tazered at least 8 times - which he really enjoys btw) and locked into a shipping container for the entire trip - man was he pissed when he got to the islands! that’s why we left him alone on one of the smaller islands for about three days . . .when we went to pick him up, the entire island had been defoliaged and every animal had abandoned the island - well the lucky ones anyway . . . well, anyway, at least I can tell random stories too, but at least mine have better mental images (yeah, I know what you were thinking at the beginning of this story) . . . .[/quote]

The fact that the bank joke was a “random story” to you does not surprise me.

183

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Well, I certainly admit to having difficulty understanding you . . . but I don’t fault my teachers or my parents for that . . . apparently you have a completely different manner of communication and logical construction than that employed by the vast majority of persons above the age of majority.[/quote]

I tend to speak English, not whatever language it is they taught you at Sunday School.[/quote]

ROFLMAO!!! that’s soooo funny because you got to put in a dig at my education and religious beliefs all at the same time! well, aren’t you just a clever little fellow . . . thought that one up all by your little lonesome did you? did you want a gold star? need a nappy now?

184

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

Oh you poor dear, I feel for you and how downtrodden you are as a white male in America.[/quote]

No, which is my point. Use of those terms isn’t damaging to my psyche. Maybe gays are just more emotionally fragile? ;0)

[/quote]

Because gays are the majority? I see.[/quote]

Oh god, this is beyond retarded devoid of any reason or logic. He argued the derogatory use everyday of terms is harmful to the person. It isn’t. Minority doesn’t enter into it.

And white male isn’t a majority in america idiot. Even just male isn’t a majority.

Aditionaly I’ve spent years living where white is a big time minority (in the nieghborhood of 30%)

So do I have a “right” to be offended/upset then and not now?[/quote]

Context. You fail at seeing it.

185

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
ROFLMAO!!! that’s soooo funny because you got to put in a dig at my education and religious beliefs all at the same time! well, aren’t you just a clever little fellow . . . thought that one up all by your little lonesome did you? did you want a gold star? need a nappy now?[/quote]

Poor child, maybe one day you can debate with the big boys. For now, just go into the corner and sit there.

186

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

LOL

This reminds me of the joke about the guy who notices ten dollars missing from his bank account statement. Waits for an hour to see someone about it, gets everything straightened out, and towards the end the clerk says “You know, I’m looking back on your records, and last week we made an error that put a hundred extra dollars in your account.” The man replies “Yes, well, I can accept the occasional error, but two weeks in a row is just unacceptable!”

Its disingenuous of you to take issue with the accuracy of those you disagree with while ignoriing glaring inaccuracies of those on the same side of the table as you. You’re concern clearly isn’t about who is informed or misinformed.

[/quote]

LMAO - this reminds me of the time I went to Tahiti with Bob and Penolope. Bob is a midget and Penelope has this thing for low level company, Personally i just love watching Bob rie around on Penelope’s back, digging in those spurs and yelling at the top of his lungs while he swings his purple and gold lariat around his head. Even more fun if he is trying to do this in the rain because Penelope gets really slippery when she’s wet, but I digress. getting Penelope through customs is always a hassle. The security personnel just keep staring at her legs and ass and asking me how she is supposed to fit into an airplane seat. and I just say that for a donkey, she’s surprisingly flexible. but invariably that make me stick her into Animal cargo - such prejuidicial treatment of Bob’s best friend is really insulting to Bob - he went all ape shit on their asses, which was really funny because he is a chimpanze and man those little devils can tear you up with they get upset, this of course resulted in Bob being handcuffed, muzzled, (tazered at least 8 times - which he really enjoys btw) and locked into a shipping container for the entire trip - man was he pissed when he got to the islands! that’s why we left him alone on one of the smaller islands for about three days . . .when we went to pick him up, the entire island had been defoliaged and every animal had abandoned the island - well the lucky ones anyway . . . well, anyway, at least I can tell random stories too, but at least mine have better mental images (yeah, I know what you were thinking at the beginning of this story) . . . .[/quote]

The fact that the bank joke was a “random story” to you does not surprise me.[/quote]

oh, you mean I was supposed to add credence and value to your cute little illustration . . .ohh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to belittle your non-sequitor argument. Perhaps when you can add a real logical construct behind it . . . oh never mind, I don’t want to set expectations for you. You just go right ahead and post whatever you like and whatever makes you feel better, ok? ok . . .

187

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
ROFLMAO!!! that’s soooo funny because you got to put in a dig at my education and religious beliefs all at the same time! well, aren’t you just a clever little fellow . . . thought that one up all by your little lonesome did you? did you want a gold star? need a nappy now?[/quote]

Poor child, maybe one day you can debate with the big boys. For now, just go into the corner and sit there.[/quote]

Oh, you’re a big boy now, aren’t you . . . awww, that’s so cute . . .

188

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

But the fact is, its not that you’re more mature, or have a better sense of self, or are “less fragile”, or in any way better than homosexuals or racial minorities or old people or the handicapped, etc, etc.

When someone calls you “White boy”, you don’t care because you’re a member of the dominant group, you can afford not to care. It isn’t some choice you make because “you decide to be the better person”.

This is what I mean, about the quality/quantity of bias.

You can handle that isolated incident, when a gay guy calls you “breeder”, because you walk away from that back into a pro-straight, anti-gay society. You don’t hear the term as often as “gay” or “faggot”, you never had to worry about your friends and family accepting you for being straight, you dont worry about being seen holding hands with your girlfriend/wife and being ridiculed or assaulted for it, you can talk about your relationships/attractions without people becoming disgusted or rapidly changing the subject, etc, etc.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve lived in a town who’s city counsel, mayor, and most other political offices were of a different race. I’ve lived in a town that publicly blocked a business from starting because the owner was of my race. I’ve had an officer from a different race talk down to me and call me “boy” after someone had wronged me. I’ve had my dad turned down for a job with the official reason being he was the most qualified, but the wrong race.

You know jack shit about me and jack shit about the world. Don’t talk to me about fucking “quality of bias” or the “real world”.

189

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

LOL

This reminds me of the joke about the guy who notices ten dollars missing from his bank account statement. Waits for an hour to see someone about it, gets everything straightened out, and towards the end the clerk says “You know, I’m looking back on your records, and last week we made an error that put a hundred extra dollars in your account.” The man replies “Yes, well, I can accept the occasional error, but two weeks in a row is just unacceptable!”

Its disingenuous of you to take issue with the accuracy of those you disagree with while ignoriing glaring inaccuracies of those on the same side of the table as you. You’re concern clearly isn’t about who is informed or misinformed.

[/quote]

LMAO - this reminds me of the time I went to Tahiti with Bob and Penolope. Bob is a midget and Penelope has this thing for low level company, Personally i just love watching Bob rie around on Penelope’s back, digging in those spurs and yelling at the top of his lungs while he swings his purple and gold lariat around his head. Even more fun if he is trying to do this in the rain because Penelope gets really slippery when she’s wet, but I digress. getting Penelope through customs is always a hassle. The security personnel just keep staring at her legs and ass and asking me how she is supposed to fit into an airplane seat. and I just say that for a donkey, she’s surprisingly flexible. but invariably that make me stick her into Animal cargo - such prejuidicial treatment of Bob’s best friend is really insulting to Bob - he went all ape shit on their asses, which was really funny because he is a chimpanze and man those little devils can tear you up with they get upset, this of course resulted in Bob being handcuffed, muzzled, (tazered at least 8 times - which he really enjoys btw) and locked into a shipping container for the entire trip - man was he pissed when he got to the islands! that’s why we left him alone on one of the smaller islands for about three days . . .when we went to pick him up, the entire island had been defoliaged and every animal had abandoned the island - well the lucky ones anyway . . . well, anyway, at least I can tell random stories too, but at least mine have better mental images (yeah, I know what you were thinking at the beginning of this story) . . . .[/quote]

The fact that the bank joke was a “random story” to you does not surprise me.[/quote]

oh, you mean I was supposed to add credence and value to your cute little illustration . . .ohh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to belittle your non-sequitor argument. Perhaps when you can add a real logical construct behind it . . . oh never mind, I don’t want to set expectations for you. You just go right ahead and post wahatever you like and whatever makes you feel better, ok? ok . . .[/quote]

The logical construct was the fact that its clear your issue isn’t with debators being correctly informed, because you ignore misinformation on the part of those on your side of the debate.

How did you miss this point so many times? How?

190

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

I said?

No, I didn’t say, but I apologize if it sounds like I implied, that type of bias doesnt exist. My point was that that type of bias is quanitatively and qualitatively different, because of the actual real world we live in, than other forms.

Now, again, actual real world. I’m a white guy. I may, in certain circumstances, be discriminated against, profiled, etc, but, since I’m a member of the dominant group, its a wholly different experience than for a black person or a hispanic person.[/quote]

LOL. You just racially stereotyped life experience. Just because I’m white, you think you can comment on my life, and what I’ve experienced. You’re a racist and you are wholly wrong.

There are many “minority” dominated places in this country.

However, you should at least limit the scope of your claim to just this country. While still blatantly wrong, it’s less blatantly wrong. Are you aware there are places like the middle east, china, japan, korea, africa, and on and on and on?

To quote the movie major league, in reference to being an American in japan, “its a lot like being a black guy back home, only there are fewer of us.”

Go to mexico and let me know how that goes.

This is retarded. [/quote]

You are one of the worst debators I’ve ever had the pleasure to deal with.

Basically, you’re saying that I’m wrong BECAUSE the same conditions apply in different parts of the world, only to different people in those parts.

Think about that for a second.[/quote]

If Mississippi is a different part of the world. And yes, when not everyone in the us is from here.

191

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
oh, you mean I was supposed to add credence and value to your cute little illustration . . .ohh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to belittle your non-sequitor argument. Perhaps when you can add a real logical construct behind it . . . oh never mind, I don’t want to set expectations for you. You just go right ahead and post wahatever you like and whatever makes you feel better, ok? ok . . .[/quote]

Now I’m fairly certain you know how to spell, so I have to wonder if you’re just sitting there, typing ferociously as you try to get in the last word, while possibly masturbating to your own verbal diarrhea.

Settle down and think about what you type.

192

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

But the fact is, its not that you’re more mature, or have a better sense of self, or are “less fragile”, or in any way better than homosexuals or racial minorities or old people or the handicapped, etc, etc.

When someone calls you “White boy”, you don’t care because you’re a member of the dominant group, you can afford not to care. It isn’t some choice you make because “you decide to be the better person”.

This is what I mean, about the quality/quantity of bias.

You can handle that isolated incident, when a gay guy calls you “breeder”, because you walk away from that back into a pro-straight, anti-gay society. You don’t hear the term as often as “gay” or “faggot”, you never had to worry about your friends and family accepting you for being straight, you dont worry about being seen holding hands with your girlfriend/wife and being ridiculed or assaulted for it, you can talk about your relationships/attractions without people becoming disgusted or rapidly changing the subject, etc, etc.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve lived in a town who’s city counsel, mayor, and most other political offices were of a different race. I’ve lived in a town that publicly blocked a business from starting because the owner was of my race. I’ve had an officer from a different race talk down to me and call me “boy” after someone had wronged me. I’ve had my dad turned down for a job with the official reason being he was the most qualified, but the wrong race.

You know jack shit about me and jack shit about the world. Don’t talk to me about fucking “quality of bias” or the “real world”.[/quote]

Now expand those experiences to everyday life. Imagine expecting those experiences everywhere you go, with little to no hope of moving away to a place where they aren’t likely to happen.

I’m honestly sorry to hear that you went through those things. But, having gone through them, you should understand better, not worse, what its like to be a member of an oppressed group.

193

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
ROFLMAO!!! that’s soooo funny because you got to put in a dig at my education and religious beliefs all at the same time! well, aren’t you just a clever little fellow . . . thought that one up all by your little lonesome did you? did you want a gold star? need a nappy now?[/quote]

Poor child, maybe one day you can debate with the big boys. For now, just go into the corner and sit there.[/quote]

Irish, I think Mak wants you to come sit by him. I think he likes you.

194

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

But the fact is, its not that you’re more mature, or have a better sense of self, or are “less fragile”, or in any way better than homosexuals or racial minorities or old people or the handicapped, etc, etc.

When someone calls you “White boy”, you don’t care because you’re a member of the dominant group, you can afford not to care. It isn’t some choice you make because “you decide to be the better person”.

This is what I mean, about the quality/quantity of bias.

You can handle that isolated incident, when a gay guy calls you “breeder”, because you walk away from that back into a pro-straight, anti-gay society. You don’t hear the term as often as “gay” or “faggot”, you never had to worry about your friends and family accepting you for being straight, you dont worry about being seen holding hands with your girlfriend/wife and being ridiculed or assaulted for it, you can talk about your relationships/attractions without people becoming disgusted or rapidly changing the subject, etc, etc.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve lived in a town who’s city counsel, mayor, and most other political offices were of a different race. I’ve lived in a town that publicly blocked a business from starting because the owner was of my race. I’ve had an officer from a different race talk down to me and call me “boy” after someone had wronged me. I’ve had my dad turned down for a job with the official reason being he was the most qualified, but the wrong race.

You know jack shit about me and jack shit about the world. Don’t talk to me about fucking “quality of bias” or the “real world”.[/quote]

Now expand those experiences to everyday life. Imagine expecting those experiences everywhere you go, with little to no hope of moving away to a place where they aren’t likely to happen.

I’m honestly sorry to hear that you went through those things. But, having gone through them, you should understand better, not worse, what its like to be a member of an oppressed group.[/quote]

But you already told me it wasn’t possible because I was white. And yes, those are every day experiences where I lived. Yes I do have a better understand that one like yourself who hasn’t experienced them.

But no, they aren’t as damaging as someone like yourself that denies my reality because of my race. I don’t care as much for the bias of the ignorant as the non-ignorant that try to justify it.

195

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

But the fact is, its not that you’re more mature, or have a better sense of self, or are “less fragile”, or in any way better than homosexuals or racial minorities or old people or the handicapped, etc, etc.

When someone calls you “White boy”, you don’t care because you’re a member of the dominant group, you can afford not to care. It isn’t some choice you make because “you decide to be the better person”.

This is what I mean, about the quality/quantity of bias.

You can handle that isolated incident, when a gay guy calls you “breeder”, because you walk away from that back into a pro-straight, anti-gay society. You don’t hear the term as often as “gay” or “faggot”, you never had to worry about your friends and family accepting you for being straight, you dont worry about being seen holding hands with your girlfriend/wife and being ridiculed or assaulted for it, you can talk about your relationships/attractions without people becoming disgusted or rapidly changing the subject, etc, etc.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve lived in a town who’s city counsel, mayor, and most other political offices were of a different race. I’ve lived in a town that publicly blocked a business from starting because the owner was of my race. I’ve had an officer from a different race talk down to me and call me “boy” after someone had wronged me. I’ve had my dad turned down for a job with the official reason being he was the most qualified, but the wrong race.

You know jack shit about me and jack shit about the world. Don’t talk to me about fucking “quality of bias” or the “real world”.[/quote]

Now expand those experiences to everyday life. Imagine expecting those experiences everywhere you go, with little to no hope of moving away to a place where they aren’t likely to happen.

I’m honestly sorry to hear that you went through those things. But, having gone through them, you should understand better, not worse, what its like to be a member of an oppressed group.[/quote]

But you already told me it wasn’t possible because I was white. And yes, those are every day experiences where I lived. [/quote]

Can you stop with the strawman argument? I didn’t say discrimination cant happen to members of a dominant group. I’ve already explained this, a few times.

196

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

The logical construct was the fact that its clear your issue isn’t with debators being correctly informed, because you ignore misinformation on the part of those on your side of the debate.

How did you miss this point so many times? How?[/quote]

OH, you have a point? That I am responsible for the commnets made by other people who happen to be in agreement with at least one of my beliefs or that I should at least denounce in detail every one of their fallacies as well? And do you correct everyone sharing at least one viewpoint with you when they post something erroneous? Certainly you have maintained this principle in every situation as well . . .I mean, you wouldn’t try to hold me to standard you yourself do not practice would you? Nooo, you wouldn’t do that . . .

Reminds me of the time that Stan and Heather and Michelle decided to get a little kinky with some goose feathers, Heather had the greatest time using feathers in all sorts of imaginative ways, but soon ran out of Michelle’s feathers, she took one look at Stan who tried to fly away before he got plucked like Michelle, but you know what they say . . . what’s good for the goose is good for the gander . . . see - I even tied it into an comparative analogy for you this time . . .

197

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
cause I was white. And yes, those are every day experiences where I lived.

Can you stop with the strawman argument? I didn’t say discrimination cant happen to members of a dominant group. I’ve already explained this, a few times. [/quote]

Bullshit, you said that my experience wasn’t the same thing. That my life doesn’t qualify. You may have used the word discrimination, but you defined it differently for me because I’m white.

198

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
oh, you mean I was supposed to add credence and value to your cute little illustration . . .ohh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to belittle your non-sequitor argument. Perhaps when you can add a real logical construct behind it . . . oh never mind, I don’t want to set expectations for you. You just go right ahead and post wahatever you like and whatever makes you feel better, ok? ok . . .[/quote]

Now I’m fairly certain you know how to spell, so I have to wonder if you’re just sitting there, typing ferociously as you try to get in the last word, while possibly masturbating to your own verbal diarrhea.

Settle down and think about what you type.[/quote]

ahh, are my typo’s upsetting your poor little mental faculties . . . gee, I am so so so sorry. I will be very careful to try o make sure I don’t make any more mistakes in my typing skills when posting to this site. Because, after all, you’ve led with such a perfect track record of typing expertise, I’d hate to sully the same site with my poor typing ability.

Why is that every conversation with you ends up in a masturbatory mental image from you? Got Fap on the Brain much?

199

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

The logical construct was the fact that its clear your issue isn’t with debators being correctly informed, because you ignore misinformation on the part of those on your side of the debate.

How did you miss this point so many times? How?[/quote]

OH, you have a point? That I am responsible for the commnets made by other people who happen to be in agreement with at least one of my beliefs or that I should at least denounce in detail every one of their fallacies as well? And do you correct everyone sharing at least one viewpoint with you when they post something erroneous? Certainly you have maintained this principle in every situation as well . . .I mean, you wouldn’t try to hold me to standard you yourself do not practice would you? Nooo, you wouldn’t do that . . .

Reminds me of the time that Stan and Heather and Michelle decided to get a little kinky with some goose feathers, Heather had the greatest time using feathers in all sorts of imaginative ways, but soon ran out of Michelle’s feathers, she took one look at Stan who tried to fly away before he got plucked like Michelle, but you know what they say . . . what’s good for the goose is good for the gander . . . see - I even tied it into an comparative analogy for you this time . . .[/quote]

I cant juggle. This really bothers me, sometimes.

200

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
ROFLMAO!!! that’s soooo funny because you got to put in a dig at my education and religious beliefs all at the same time! well, aren’t you just a clever little fellow . . . thought that one up all by your little lonesome did you? did you want a gold star? need a nappy now?[/quote]

Poor child, maybe one day you can debate with the big boys. For now, just go into the corner and sit there.[/quote]

Irish, I think Mak wants you to come sit by him. I think he likes you.[/quote]

Not going to do it . . . wouldn’t be prudent . . .