Religious Controversies: Homosexuality

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
201

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
cause I was white. And yes, those are every day experiences where I lived.

Can you stop with the strawman argument? I didn’t say discrimination cant happen to members of a dominant group. I’ve already explained this, a few times. [/quote]

Bullshit, you said that my experience wasn’t the same thing. That my life doesn’t qualify. You may have used the word discrimination, but you defined it differently for me because I’m white.[/quote]

Your experience wasn’t the same thing. Facing discrimination as a member of an oppressed group and facing discrimination as a member of a dominant group are not the same thing.

202

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I cant juggle. This really bothers me, sometimes.[/quote]

there are schools for that, and I’m sure your local community college has some excell . . .oh you . . . you got me . . . . wow . . .ha ha . . . ha . . . he . . .

203

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
cause I was white. And yes, those are every day experiences where I lived.

Can you stop with the strawman argument? I didn’t say discrimination cant happen to members of a dominant group. I’ve already explained this, a few times. [/quote]

Bullshit, you said that my experience wasn’t the same thing. That my life doesn’t qualify. You may have used the word discrimination, but you defined it differently for me because I’m white.[/quote]

Your experience wasn’t the same thing. Facing discrimination as a member of an oppressed group and facing discrimination as a member of a dominant group are not the same thing.[/quote]

And typing something on the keyboard and it being true in the real world are 2 different things. Reality destroys your idea of a dominate group.

204

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
cause I was white. And yes, those are every day experiences where I lived.

Can you stop with the strawman argument? I didn’t say discrimination cant happen to members of a dominant group. I’ve already explained this, a few times. [/quote]

Bullshit, you said that my experience wasn’t the same thing. That my life doesn’t qualify. You may have used the word discrimination, but you defined it differently for me because I’m white.[/quote]

Your experience wasn’t the same thing. Facing discrimination as a member of an oppressed group and facing discrimination as a member of a dominant group are not the same thing.[/quote]

And typing something on the keyboard and it being true in the real world are 2 different things. Reality destroys your idea of a dominate group.[/quote]

Nope, sorry. Isolated incidences of discrimination don’t destroy the fact of dominant groups.

205

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
cause I was white. And yes, those are every day experiences where I lived.

Can you stop with the strawman argument? I didn’t say discrimination cant happen to members of a dominant group. I’ve already explained this, a few times. [/quote]

Bullshit, you said that my experience wasn’t the same thing. That my life doesn’t qualify. You may have used the word discrimination, but you defined it differently for me because I’m white.[/quote]

Your experience wasn’t the same thing. Facing discrimination as a member of an oppressed group and facing discrimination as a member of a dominant group are not the same thing.[/quote]

And typing something on the keyboard and it being true in the real world are 2 different things. Reality destroys your idea of a dominate group.[/quote]

Nope, sorry. Isolated incidences of discrimination don’t destroy the fact of dominant groups. [/quote]

It isn’t isolated when it’s the whole town/state you live in. When it’s everything you see on a daily basis. The US is an isolated occurrence in the world, so nothing here changes the overall domination of Asia. I can’t argue with someone that against all proof and reason clings to an idea by merely claiming it as fact with no supportive anything.

206

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
cause I was white. And yes, those are every day experiences where I lived.

Can you stop with the strawman argument? I didn’t say discrimination cant happen to members of a dominant group. I’ve already explained this, a few times. [/quote]

Bullshit, you said that my experience wasn’t the same thing. That my life doesn’t qualify. You may have used the word discrimination, but you defined it differently for me because I’m white.[/quote]

Your experience wasn’t the same thing. Facing discrimination as a member of an oppressed group and facing discrimination as a member of a dominant group are not the same thing.[/quote]

And typing something on the keyboard and it being true in the real world are 2 different things. Reality destroys your idea of a dominate group.[/quote]

Nope, sorry. Isolated incidences of discrimination don’t destroy the fact of dominant groups. [/quote]

It isn’t isolated when it’s the whole town/state you live in. When it’s everything you see on a daily basis. The US is an isolated occurrence in the world, so nothing here changes the overall domination of Asia. I can’t argue with someone that against all proof and reason clings to an idea by merely claiming it as fact with no supportive anything.[/quote]

Oh, well then. You should just avoid me.

207

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I might be one of the minority Christians that would actually like to give Homosexuals marriage rights. They have everything equal to Hetrosexuals right now, except marriage. My idea of Homosexuals getting legally married forces them to go through the legal channels to get a divorce which protects the rights of partners.

Also it will get rid of the idea of paying for Health Benefits for room mates. It would force this country to pay for legally binded individuals only and not people shacking up with each other, this is including heterosexuals. You want to get Health Care Costs down this is how you do it.

The Bible is clear that Homosexuality is a sin, and it looks like we all agree with this. The question is how should Homosexuals be treated in society? Everyone should be treated equally. [/quote]

No, you’re not alone. I’ve always believed that marriage rights should be decided by the individuals in question.

Again, I have no place to say something like homosexuals are destroying the sanctity of marriage being a person that has been divorced myself. I’m definitely not anti-homosexual. I just call homosexuality for what it is, a sin. Homosexuals have committed no more greivous sin than I have.

If you disagree with the practice of homosexuality, you should have the right to do so without being called a “homophobe.” What exactly am I afraid of? Turning gay? Hardly. Nobody “turns gay.” If I disagree with adultery am I an “adulterphobe?”

208

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote: Ahhhh, never get tired of seeing the same arguments used over and over and over again.

“I’m (insert dominant group here), and when I’m discriminated against, I dont let it bother me! It must be that I’m somehow better than (non-dominant group)!”

Dont worry, it took me a long time to come to terms with it as well.

But the fact is, its not that you’re more mature, or have a better sense of self, or are “less fragile”, or in any way better than homosexuals or racial minorities or old people or the handicapped, etc, etc.

When someone calls you “White boy”, you don’t care because you’re a member of the dominant group, you can afford not to care. It isn’t some choice you make because “you decide to be the better person”…[/quote]

Lol, yeah that’s about the truth of it. It’s a bitter tasting medicine but you got to swallow it all the same!

209

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I might be one of the minority Christians that would actually like to give Homosexuals marriage rights. They have everything equal to Hetrosexuals right now, except marriage. My idea of Homosexuals getting legally married forces them to go through the legal channels to get a divorce which protects the rights of partners.

Also it will get rid of the idea of paying for Health Benefits for room mates. It would force this country to pay for legally binded individuals only and not people shacking up with each other, this is including heterosexuals. You want to get Health Care Costs down this is how you do it.

The Bible is clear that Homosexuality is a sin, and it looks like we all agree with this. The question is how should Homosexuals be treated in society? Everyone should be treated equally. [/quote]

No, you’re not alone. I’ve always believed that marriage rights should be decided by the individuals in question.

Again, I have no place to say something like homosexuals are destroying the sanctity of marriage being a person that has been divorced myself. I’m definitely not anti-homosexual. I just call homosexuality for what it is, a sin. Homosexuals have committed no more greivous sin than I have.

If you disagree with the practice of homosexuality, you should have the right to do so without being called a “homophobe.” What exactly am I afraid of? Turning gay? Hardly. Nobody “turns gay.” If I disagree with adultery am I an “adulterphobe?”
[/quote]

lol. The adulterphobe is pretty good.

Doesn’t Canada already allow Homosexual marriages or unions?

210

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Oh, well then. You should just avoid me.[/quote]

I would, but I sympathize with you because the word idiot is used as a derogatory word I know how that might damage your self esteem.

211

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Oh, well then. You should just avoid me.[/quote]

I would, but I sympathize with you because the word idiot is used as a derogatory word I know how that might damage your self esteem.[/quote]

Awwwwwww, how sweet.

212

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Oh, well then. You should just avoid me.[/quote]

I would, but I sympathize with you because the word idiot is used as a derogatory word I know how that might damage your self esteem.[/quote]

Awwwwwww, how sweet.[/quote]

It was just a joke, but ironically there is more reason and proof behind it than your serious claims.

213

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Oh, well then. You should just avoid me.[/quote]

I would, but I sympathize with you because the word idiot is used as a derogatory word I know how that might damage your self esteem.[/quote]

Awwwwwww, how sweet.[/quote]

It was just a joke, but ironically there is more reason and proof behind it than your serious claims.[/quote]

Yeah.

214

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I might be one of the minority Christians that would actually like to give Homosexuals marriage rights. They have everything equal to Hetrosexuals right now, except marriage. My idea of Homosexuals getting legally married forces them to go through the legal channels to get a divorce which protects the rights of partners.

Also it will get rid of the idea of paying for Health Benefits for room mates. It would force this country to pay for legally binded individuals only and not people shacking up with each other, this is including heterosexuals. You want to get Health Care Costs down this is how you do it.

The Bible is clear that Homosexuality is a sin, and it looks like we all agree with this. The question is how should Homosexuals be treated in society? Everyone should be treated equally. [/quote]

No, you’re not alone. I’ve always believed that marriage rights should be decided by the individuals in question.

Again, I have no place to say something like homosexuals are destroying the sanctity of marriage being a person that has been divorced myself. I’m definitely not anti-homosexual. I just call homosexuality for what it is, a sin. Homosexuals have committed no more greivous sin than I have.

If you disagree with the practice of homosexuality, you should have the right to do so without being called a “homophobe.” What exactly am I afraid of? Turning gay? Hardly. Nobody “turns gay.” If I disagree with adultery am I an “adulterphobe?”
[/quote]

I agree with this. Do I have a hard time agreeing with homosexuality? Yes I can at times. But as an American and Christian, I do think they have the right to marriage bc it would be discriminating if they didnt(which neither my country or religon stand for). I know homosexuals who are great Christians. My Uncle for example. I love him like a brother and I can be around him and others wihtout feeling like Im going to kill someone or myself. Am I a homophobe or bigot? No. And btw, “white” dominance is hardly the case in some places. Im from south Texas which is probably 80% mexican. I was the only white boy in my grade. I was sent to the hospital by a group of mexicans and nothing was done about it. Do I hate them even though I was discriminated everyday? Not at all. Why? Because THEY ARENT ALL THE SAME!! Yall like to put christians or whites in one single group which all have the exact same beliefs and standards. Now that is discrimination. Most of all, if you stand against bigotry, then dont be a hypocrite. You can have these conversations with respect. Dont you agree?

215

Is three some punishment if gays are declared husband/husband by Joe the gay bartender? What am I missing? I mean, I seen gays introduce the other as “my husband.” They didn’t even look worried that a police raid would soon show, or something.

216

In fact, what’s to any man and woman from cohabitating (as we think of it), yet introducing themselves as a married couple?

217

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Is three some punishment if gays are declared husband/husband by Joe the gay bartender? What am I missing? I mean, I seen gays introduce the other as “my husband.” They didn’t even look worried that a police raid would soon show, or something.[/quote]

It’s those pesky federal things like hospital visitation and child custody that all come packaged up all tidy like.

But you already knew that.

218

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Oh, this argument.

Listen, you’re a guy, right? BUT IF EVERYBODY WERE GUYS HUMANS COULDN’T REPRODUCE AND WE’D ALL DIE OFF!

Being a guy must be wrong.

And you know all those priests and monks that take vows of celibacy? IF WE WERE ALL CELIBATE THE HUMAN RACE WOULD DIE OFF!

Whats your job? IF EVERYBODY HAD THAT SAME JOB THE ECONOMY WOULD FAIL!

You’ll have to excuse all the caps, its just about the millionth time I’ve seen this fucking useless argument played out. Yes, if everyone were strictly gay (neverminding bisexuals or pansexuals, etc), the human race would die out. That same statement applies to about a million other things, though, so why aren’t you opposed to any of them, on the same grounds?[/quote]

I was playing devils advocate to mango’s argument, so this isn’t my viewpoint. But continuing the role, I guess I kinda agree with your first two examples, we need men and women having sex to multiply the species. If you’re trying to say that if the entire human race had ANY single characteristic, that it would fail, then those arguments aren’t really valid.

The act of homosexuality is a choice. I do NOT want to get into whether people are born gay, but the actual act itself is a choice. The same cannot be said for gender. And as far as jobs (priests and monks fall into this category as well), that example doesn’t further your point at all. There are all kinds of different jobs, but as we know, not everyone gets to do what they feel like they were born to do. I mean there are people that move out to Hollywood to become famous and fail. They don’t contribute to society, so they can’t get paid and they find other jobs. Society is generally self regulating as far as this is concerned.

Or maybe we both agree that a heuristic of societal worth isn’t great as far as judging whether any specific action is good? I didn’t say it specifically, but this is what I was getting at with my original argument to mango.

219

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Is three some punishment if gays are declared husband/husband by Joe the gay bartender? What am I missing? I mean, I seen gays introduce the other as “my husband.” They didn’t even look worried that a police raid would soon show, or something.[/quote]

It’s those pesky federal things like hospital visitation and child custody that all come packaged up all tidy like.

But you already knew that.[/quote]

But a 5-10-15 person polyamorous relationship can’t recieve such ri…excuse me, state provided priviledges, either. Nor can 2-3-4 non-sexually involved roommates. What people seem to forget is that state recognized marriage is always discriminatory. After all, it takes a personal human relationship (of any type), and says, “You, as opposed to all other single or multiple person arrangments, automatically receive this and that.” The discrimination argument is bunk. Not because it isn’t true, but because marriage is by definition always discriminatory.

220

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Is three some punishment if gays are declared husband/husband by Joe the gay bartender? What am I missing? I mean, I seen gays introduce the other as “my husband.” They didn’t even look worried that a police raid would soon show, or something.[/quote]

It’s those pesky federal things like hospital visitation and child custody that all come packaged up all tidy like.

But you already knew that.[/quote]

says the dude from New Zealand, which BTW does not recgnize same-sex marriages, but does recognize civil unions - but does not allow adoption for same-sex couples . . .

You’ll find a majority in America are not opposed to civil unions for same-sex couples. oh, like this poll right here . . . http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4972643-503544.html . . .seems to indicate that 67% of American’s favor civil unions (assuming that those supporting marriage would not oppose civil unions)

The sad part is that LBGT’s could have had that victory in the 90’s if they would have accepted it - but they insist on pushing for the title of marriage which just cuts their supppor to less than a majority.