Religious Controversies: Homosexuality

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
ooohhh . . . so every society is tolerant of homosexuals . . . well, then what’s your issue?[/quote]

You need to work on the failing less part.

I didnt say every society is. Some are, some arent, its a tricky subject to conclusively say that a whole society “accepts” or “doesnt accept” something.

My point was that you got all upset about “experts on Christianity”, because you didn’t like what they were saying… but when people said stuff you agreed with, despite their obvious lack of knowledge in the subject, you say nothing.

Points, you miss them.[/quote]

Oh, so now I am responsible for answering every idiot’s mis-statements on every thread? Well, dang, I’m good, but I don’t think that I am that good . . .

And since when does not commenting about someone else’s idiocy mean that I agree with their lunacy? I’m not allowed to occasionally ignore an obviously uninformed individual?

162

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

They have a right to voice their opinion – I wouldn’t dare dream of supporting the idea that they weren’t allowed to make that thread. But I have the same right, so why shouldn’t I speak up for people who are largely hated and discriminated against by bigots?[/quote]

Hated? Discrimiated Against? Bigot? who’s the one using hate speech here?

Not a person on this thread has said one hateful thing about gays or discriminate dagainst them in anyway - and for our religious beliefs (that are of no consequence to anyone not a part of our faith) we’re called bigots?

And don’t think of rsponding that you were just speaking about the society at large, because you are speaking in a confined forum not to society at large. If you are “speaking up” here, you are implying the need to “speak up” against behavior witnessed here.[/quote]

Um, actually, thats exactly what I was doing. I was talking about homosexuals as a group, who are, yes, classically hated and discriminated against. But, sure, I suppose I’d feel “hated” if people logged onto a forum just to discuss how wrong my lifestyle/sexual preference/orientation is.

And, yes, being as there is no logical, rational, moral basis for being “anti-gay”, if you are, you’re a bigot. Much in the same way there isn’t basis for being “anti-black”, or “anti-woman”, or “anti-handicapped”, or “anti-old people”. Homophobia/orientationism is bigotry.[/quote]

So you are not a bigot if you are “anti-white” or “anti-straight” or “anti-christian”?[/quote]

You’d still be a bigot. What’s your point?

Oh, silly me, did I actually bring up groups that really do face bigotry and discrimination, as opposed to arbitrarily adding groups that dont? Those poor oppressed straight white christian males, how do they ever deal with it all?

And, before you ask, yes, if you’re anti-greeneyed people, or anti-freckles, or anti-brown hair, or anti-tall people, … bigotry.

Now can we try to get the conversation back in the actual real world again?[/quote]

Your an idiot that has no idea about the real world.[/quote]

Why, because I recognize straight white christian males to be, four times over, members of dominant groups?
[/quote]

exactly. You don’t know the world at all. Minority is entirely dependent on situation. Try some travel, domestically and abroad.

163

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Almost all religions seek to trample the rights of people not like them.[/quote]

and Mak for the gross oversimplification and generalizaiton fallacy . . . again . . . at least you have consistency . . .

164

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.

165

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Almost all religions seek to trample the rights of people not like them.[/quote]

and Mak for the gross oversimplification and generalizaiton fallacy . . . again . . . at least you have consistency . . .[/quote]

You seem incapable of reading and basic English comprehension. Your parents must be proud. All those years wasted.

‘All’ is still not the same as ‘the’ no matter how much you really want it to be so.

166

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
ooohhh . . . so every society is tolerant of homosexuals . . . well, then what’s your issue?[/quote]

You need to work on the failing less part.

I didnt say every society is. Some are, some arent, its a tricky subject to conclusively say that a whole society “accepts” or “doesnt accept” something.

My point was that you got all upset about “experts on Christianity”, because you didn’t like what they were saying… but when people said stuff you agreed with, despite their obvious lack of knowledge in the subject, you say nothing.

Points, you miss them.[/quote]

Oh, so now I am responsible for answering every idiot’s mis-statements on every thread? Well, dang, I’m good, but I don’t think that I am that good . . .

And since when does not commenting about someone else’s idiocy mean that I agree with their lunacy? I’m not allowed to occasionally ignore an obviously uninformed individual?
[/quote]

LOL

This reminds me of the joke about the guy who notices ten dollars missing from his bank account statement. Waits for an hour to see someone about it, gets everything straightened out, and towards the end the clerk says “You know, I’m looking back on your records, and last week we made an error that put a hundred extra dollars in your account.” The man replies “Yes, well, I can accept the occasional error, but two weeks in a row is just unacceptable!”

Its disingenuous of you to take issue with the accuracy of those you disagree with while ignoriing glaring inaccuracies of those on the same side of the table as you. You’re concern clearly isn’t about who is informed or misinformed.

167

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

Oh you poor dear, I feel for you and how downtrodden you are as a white male in America.

168

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

I said?

No, I didn’t say, but I apologize if it sounds like I implied, that type of bias doesnt exist. My point was that that type of bias is quanitatively and qualitatively different, because of the actual real world we live in, than other forms.

Now, again, actual real world. I’m a white guy. I may, in certain circumstances, be discriminated against, profiled, etc, but, since I’m a member of the dominant group, its a wholly different experience than for a black person or a hispanic person.

169

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

Oh you poor dear, I feel for you and how downtrodden you are as a white male in America.[/quote]

No, which is my point. Use of those terms isn’t damaging to my psyche. Maybe gays are just more emotionally fragile? ;0)

170

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

Oh you poor dear, I feel for you and how downtrodden you are as a white male in America.[/quote]

No, which is my point. Use of those terms isn’t damaging to my psyche. Maybe gays are just more emotionally fragile? ;0)

[/quote]

Because gays are the majority? I see.

171

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Almost all religions seek to trample the rights of people not like them.[/quote]

and Mak for the gross oversimplification and generalizaiton fallacy . . . again . . . at least you have consistency . . .[/quote]

You seem incapable of reading and basic English comprehension. Your parents must be proud. All those years wasted.

‘All’ is still not the same as ‘the’ no matter how much you really want it to be so.[/quote]

Well, I certainly admit to having difficulty understanding you . . . but I don’t fault my teachers or my parents for that . . . apparently you have a completely different manner of communication and logical construction than that employed by the vast majority of persons above the age of majority.

172

I might be one of the minority Christians that would actually like to give Homosexuals marriage rights. They have everything equal to Hetrosexuals right now, except marriage. My idea of Homosexuals getting legally married forces them to go through the legal channels to get a divorce which protects the rights of partners.

Also it will get rid of the idea of paying for Health Benefits for room mates. It would force this country to pay for legally binded individuals only and not people shacking up with each other, this is including heterosexuals. You want to get Health Care Costs down this is how you do it.

The Bible is clear that Homosexuality is a sin, and it looks like we all agree with this. The question is how should Homosexuals be treated in society? Everyone should be treated equally.

173

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Almost all religions seek to trample the rights of people not like them.[/quote]

and Mak for the gross oversimplification and generalizaiton fallacy . . . again . . . at least you have consistency . . .[/quote]

You seem incapable of reading and basic English comprehension. Your parents must be proud. All those years wasted.

‘All’ is still not the same as ‘the’ no matter how much you really want it to be so.[/quote]

Well, I certainly admit to having difficulty understanding you . . . but I don’t fault my teachers or my parents for that . . . apparently you have a completely different manner of communication and logical construction than that employed by the vast majority of persons above the age of majority.[/quote]

I tend to speak English, not whatever language it is they taught you at Sunday School.

174

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

I said?

No, I didn’t say, but I apologize if it sounds like I implied, that type of bias doesnt exist. My point was that that type of bias is quanitatively and qualitatively different, because of the actual real world we live in, than other forms.

Now, again, actual real world. I’m a white guy. I may, in certain circumstances, be discriminated against, profiled, etc, but, since I’m a member of the dominant group, its a wholly different experience than for a black person or a hispanic person.[/quote]

LOL. You just racially stereotyped life experience. Just because I’m white, you think you can comment on my life, and what I’ve experienced. You’re a racist and you are wholly wrong.

There are many “minority” dominated places in this country.

However, you should at least limit the scope of your claim to just this country. While still blatantly wrong, it’s less blatantly wrong. Are you aware there are places like the middle east, china, japan, korea, africa, and on and on and on?

To quote the movie major league, in reference to being an American in japan, “its a lot like being a black guy back home, only there are fewer of us.”

Go to mexico and let me know how that goes.

This is retarded.

175

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

Oh you poor dear, I feel for you and how downtrodden you are as a white male in America.[/quote]

No, which is my point. Use of those terms isn’t damaging to my psyche. Maybe gays are just more emotionally fragile? ;0)

[/quote]

Ahhhh, never get tired of seeing the same arguments used over and over and over again.

“I’m (insert dominant group here), and when I’m discriminated against, I dont let it bother me! It must be that I’m somehow better than (non-dominant group)!”

Dont worry, it took me a long time to come to terms with it as well.

But the fact is, its not that you’re more mature, or have a better sense of self, or are “less fragile”, or in any way better than homosexuals or racial minorities or old people or the handicapped, etc, etc.

When someone calls you “White boy”, you don’t care because you’re a member of the dominant group, you can afford not to care. It isn’t some choice you make because “you decide to be the better person”.

This is what I mean, about the quality/quantity of bias.

You can handle that isolated incident, when a gay guy calls you “breeder”, because you walk away from that back into a pro-straight, anti-gay society. You don’t hear the term as often as “gay” or “faggot”, you never had to worry about your friends and family accepting you for being straight, you dont worry about being seen holding hands with your girlfriend/wife and being ridiculed or assaulted for it, you can talk about your relationships/attractions without people becoming disgusted or rapidly changing the subject, etc, etc.

176

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
The Bible is clear that Homosexuality is a sin, and it looks like we all agree with this. The question is how should Homosexuals be treated in society? Everyone should be treated equally.

[Edit] If homosexuals want to get married, it should be allowed that Religions that do not agree with Homosexuality should not be forced to marry people in their churches, or places of worship. This would be a state law, and not a church law.[/quote]

I agree with this, inclusive of the edit (especially with the edit actually).

177

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

I said?

No, I didn’t say, but I apologize if it sounds like I implied, that type of bias doesnt exist. My point was that that type of bias is quanitatively and qualitatively different, because of the actual real world we live in, than other forms.

Now, again, actual real world. I’m a white guy. I may, in certain circumstances, be discriminated against, profiled, etc, but, since I’m a member of the dominant group, its a wholly different experience than for a black person or a hispanic person.[/quote]

LOL. You just racially stereotyped life experience. Just because I’m white, you think you can comment on my life, and what I’ve experienced. You’re a racist and you are wholly wrong.

There are many “minority” dominated places in this country.

However, you should at least limit the scope of your claim to just this country. While still blatantly wrong, it’s less blatantly wrong. Are you aware there are places like the middle east, china, japan, korea, africa, and on and on and on?

To quote the movie major league, in reference to being an American in japan, “its a lot like being a black guy back home, only there are fewer of us.”

Go to mexico and let me know how that goes.

This is retarded. [/quote]

You are one of the worst debators I’ve ever had the pleasure to deal with.

Basically, you’re saying that I’m wrong BECAUSE the same conditions apply in different parts of the world, only to different people in those parts.

Think about that for a second.

178

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

LOL

This reminds me of the joke about the guy who notices ten dollars missing from his bank account statement. Waits for an hour to see someone about it, gets everything straightened out, and towards the end the clerk says “You know, I’m looking back on your records, and last week we made an error that put a hundred extra dollars in your account.” The man replies “Yes, well, I can accept the occasional error, but two weeks in a row is just unacceptable!”

Its disingenuous of you to take issue with the accuracy of those you disagree with while ignoriing glaring inaccuracies of those on the same side of the table as you. You’re concern clearly isn’t about who is informed or misinformed.

[/quote]

LMAO - this reminds me of the time I went to Tahiti with Bob and Penolope. Bob is a midget and Penelope has this thing for low level company, Personally i just love watching Bob rie around on Penelope’s back, digging in those spurs and yelling at the top of his lungs while he swings his purple and gold lariat around his head. Even more fun if he is trying to do this in the rain because Penelope gets really slippery when she’s wet, but I digress. getting Penelope through customs is always a hassle. The security personnel just keep staring at her legs and ass and asking me how she is supposed to fit into an airplane seat. and I just say that for a donkey, she’s surprisingly flexible. but invariably that make me stick her into Animal cargo - such prejuidicial treatment of Bob’s best friend is really insulting to Bob - he went all ape shit on their asses, which was really funny because he is a chimpanze and man those little devils can tear you up with they get upset, this of course resulted in Bob being handcuffed, muzzled, (tazered at least 8 times - which he really enjoys btw) and locked into a shipping container for the entire trip - man was he pissed when he got to the islands! that’s why we left him alone on one of the smaller islands for about three days . . .when we went to pick him up, the entire island had been defoliaged and every animal had abandoned the island - well the lucky ones anyway . . . well, anyway, at least I can tell random stories too, but at least mine have better mental images (yeah, I know what you were thinking at the beginning of this story) . . . .

179

How about YOU go to Mexico, or Japan, and live as a minority for a while… then come back here and spout about how hard it is to be white and straight in America and how all the minorities and gays are just “fragile.”

lawls.

180

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

And, yes, its wrong for “white” and “man/male” to be used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

But that’s impossible you said that type of bias doesn’t exist. Christian/catholic/religious est. get used derogatorily all the time.

I see these terms used freely in moves, news, cartoons, ads, and on and on and on.[/quote]

Oh you poor dear, I feel for you and how downtrodden you are as a white male in America.[/quote]

No, which is my point. Use of those terms isn’t damaging to my psyche. Maybe gays are just more emotionally fragile? ;0)

[/quote]

Because gays are the majority? I see.[/quote]

Oh god, this is beyond retarded devoid of any reason or logic. He argued the derogatory use everyday of terms is harmful to the person. It isn’t. Minority doesn’t enter into it.

And white male isn’t a majority in america idiot. Even just male isn’t a majority.

Aditionaly I’ve spent years living where white is a big time minority (in the nieghborhood of 30%)

So do I have a “right” to be offended/upset then and not now?