Many religions look great on paper. As usual, people mess them up. As for me, I’m a Christian. I would rather believe in God and be wrong, than not believe in God and be wrong. Invisible 3- you are right on.
The roaring of lions, the howling of wolves, the raging of the stormy sea, and the destructive sword, are portions of eternity, too great for the eye of man.
-Blake
the resurrection of Jesus Christ…we all have to deal with that reality, in one way or another.
Yes,organized “religion” IS a crock!
Corporate and personal worship of God, relationships with one another in the context of a community of believers; these are the things the Bible seeks to clarify and encourage.
If the accounts of jesus are acurrately told through the bible, Which I doubt they are totally accurate. Then I can easily believe in him and his message, I hawever do not take his message to be the same as some other people do and I do not hold him in the same light at the christian religion does.
To me jesus was a man, a man who had a superior connection to his spirit and the source. Through this he interpreted to the best of his ability the information he was recieving. Generally jesus had a point to be good to everyone regardless of how they treat you. This is what most people don’t understand. It’s not about worshoping some god, it’s about how you treat the living flesh of god. How do you treat yourself? How do you treat your spouse or girlfriend? How do you treat some scrawny kid who is curling in the squat rack? Do you truly love all of god’s creation? do you love terrorists? I do, god created them. I will not let them destroy me, and I will certainly destroy them if that needs to be done, but I will not destroy them out of anger, hate or revenge, I will destroy them out of love, so that the pain they bring others may be stopped.
I say this I am not even a christian but I am a better christian than most, I am not a muslim, but I am a better muslim than most, I am not a buddist, you get the point.
And for those of you who think I am a halucinogenic freak, let me assure you I am not, but my reality is pretty damn interesting.
DaMan-
Don’t you think if you were born in the middle of the Amazon in a tribe that worshipped a head of lettuce… You would fervently worship that head of lettuce?
SMF-
I was in that phase at one time, the insurance policy “Id rather believe in God and be wrong” school of thought, but isn’t that based in fear, and do you think a loving God would want you to be fearful?
SteelyEyes-
Ive read and liked many of your posts and once again I think your right on the mark!
As an agnostic my only admission is I don’t know the secrets of the universe, and I am open to whatever happens in the next stage of existance or lack thereof. I also must be open to the existance of an etherial or god like being, but I am not afraid he or she or it is going to cast me in a lake of fire, because I did not proclaim myself a christian.
I Like the lake of fire comment.
Also even if I was thrown in a lake of fire. #1 it would kill me, #2 it wouldn’t kill me therefore it wouldn’t even hurt? the reason we hurt is a warning that our body is getting damaged, if I there fore was getting hurt by the fire I would eventually die. If there is no chance of the fire killing me, then it becomes my natural environment and I run around and play in it because it’s cool that I can now walk around in fire.
Fear and pain are caused by the thought of and end to our personal existance. Once one truly believes and understands that we can never be destroyed, that our essence lives on forever, there is no more fear or pain.
Vegita,
I like you. I think that your views are beautiful, and I agree with most of what you say. At times, I?ve doubted the bible and various things that I?ve been taught as a Catholic. It was a priest that told me that it was okay to have these feelings and thoughts. I was shocked that a priest said that, as I was of the opinion that he?d beat me with his cane for questioning the Catholic church and it?s teachings (joking). I guess I listened to too many Catholic bashers and started to believe some of the things THEY were preaching. After going through my wife?s catechism, I was amazed at the amount of nonsense that Protestants and people of other faiths believe about the Catholics. It?s truly a matter of lack of education and understanding.
Bottom line is, for me and my family, I believe in the community that I share in at my Catholic church. I believe that the community that we have is beautiful and fulfilling. It is a strong community that holds the ?Family? at the top of its priorities. This is very important to me.
Take care?
If then net effect of you beleiving in catholic faith is positive than it has served it’s purpose for you and those around you. And I congatulate you on that. IMHO it is not the reliogion or belief system that makes the person, it is the person who makes the religion or belief system.
PtrDR said: " wow…there are lots of people on here who don’t believe in God, and I respect your right to that belief, however, calling the Bible bullshit is just mean spirited."
Let me state right away that the “bullshit” thing was both unneccessary and harsh, but I do have a bone to pick with Christians who might so readily take offense at such thinking.
Believe it or not, followers of any religion who talk about the “one true God” or tell others that they need to “deal with the reality of Jesus’ resurrection” are–in a sneaky, passive-aggressive sort of way–telling everyone else that their religion is “bullshit.” They just make it sound nicer.
In effect, your position is: "You’re entitled to your beliefs, but only what WE believe is proven to be correct. Obviously you’re just simply mistaken…although you are, of course entitled to your mistake, you silly heathen.
Those of us who are on the receiving end find that smug condescension just as much an affront as you found the “bullshit” statement.
Live how you want, state your BELIEFS if you want, but don’t tell all the rest of us that you alone have some “proof” that your god alone is real. We’re all mere mortals, struggling somehow to grasp this big ole universe and all its metaphysical forces. It’s sheer arrogance to claim that somehow, amongst all of humanity, you guys have it all figured out while the rest of us wallow in ignorance.
Peace…
strong Athiest. God is a concept that is nothing more than a philosophical proposition, one I need not accept.
Religion is more of a custom than a belief for most. Few “discover” religion, they just do it, cuz, well, what other option do they have?
I have had this emailed to me a few times, and I find it pretty funny! Great for dealing with those fundamentalist literalists out there.
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses sex advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abominaton according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in any circumstance. The following is an Open Letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident,which was posted on the Internet:
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your radio show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them.
a)When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b)I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c)I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d)Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
…Why can’t I own Canadians?
e)I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement project ?
f)A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
g)Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact lenses help?
h)Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
i)I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j)My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confidentyou can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
Quoted from this thread:
“A person who is an agnostic talked with me. He talked about all his beliefs. I listened because I wanted to learn more. The conversation went on quite a while. In the end it came back to his father. His father died at a young age and he was angry at God about it. He has a right to be angry and still his anger keeps him from God. I have some more examples but I don’t want to turn this into a book.”
–>You can consider this a version of the Problem of Evil, which is a philosophical attack against the Judeo-Christian God. It goes:
P1. God is omnipotent.
P2. God is omnibenevolent.
P3. Evil exists.
C1. Either P1, P2, are incorrect descriptions of God. God cannot be both omnipotent and omnipresent if evil exists. While I don’t find this argument to be an effective one against God’s existence, I do think it is correct in denying at least one of his attributes.
Anyhow, you can’t crack all athiests and agnostics up to be angry at religion. While I think religion is simply unnecessary, I’ve no anger toward it. My position is rooted in serious consideration – deny that if you will.
Roy: That was fantastic.
RSU
P3 Evil does not exist in what would be it’s true form. It was created as a perception to have the ability to see the whole from more than one point of view.
Like I have previosly stated Terrorists are not evil, we precieve them as such. They are actually very good, noble and honorable men from their perspective. To them we are evil devils, we know this not to be true.
They kill to defend what they percive as right and good, we do the same, in fact we are more alike than most are comfortable with. I am perfectly comfortable with it, no matter who wins, the good guys always win.
I’m catholic but I only make it to church for Passover and Yom Kippur.
SMF -That looks like a modern version of Pasquals wager (ie “playing the odds”). The flaw being that in believing whichever God you chose, you’re also choosing to disbelieve in dozens of other Gods… the odds don’t seem very good.
Vegita- Something to consider about the accuracy of Jesus in the Bible is the passage where Jesus said, “this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ and by the passage of time, he was apparently wrong. And then the statement, “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”
The one exhibition of error and the one confession of ignorance grow side by side. That they sood thus in the mouth of Jesus himself, and were not merely placed thus by the reporter, we surely need not doubt. Unless the reporter were perfectly honest he would never have recorded the confession of ignorance at all; he could have had no motive for doing so except a desire to tell the whole truth. And unless later copyists were equally honest they would never have preserved the (apparently) mistaken prediction about “this generation” after the passage of time had shown the (apparent) mistake.
This passage (Mark 13:30-32 and the cry “Why hast thou forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34) together make up the strongest proof that the New Testament is historically reliable. The evangelists have the first great characteristic of honest witnesses: they mention facts which are, at first sight, damaging to their main contention.” This is all either a paraphrased or direct quote from C.S. Lewis just to identify the source.
Right Side Up -
Your argument is slightly flawed IMO. God is omniscient. I don’t think I’ve ever heard to him referred to as omni-benevolent. He is a forgiving God - if we ask for it. But that is not omni-benevolence
Evil exists everywhere in this world because of man’s free will - we choose evil almost everytime it is offered to us. There is only one place that evil is not allowed, and that is in God’s presence.
I think arguing the existance of God is kind of like looking at those 3-D posters that you have to stare at just right in order to see the image. Those that can see it can’t believe that someone might not be able to. Those that can’t find the hidden image think those that can are full of crap.
RoyBatty-
Bravo!
RSU-
It is good to finally hear you chime in!
Question for Atheists:
Why is it that 95% of atheists refer to a singular God (usually the Christian God, regardless of context)? Shouldn’t it always be pluralized (eg “I don’t believe that any Gods exist”) when speaking generally, or specified when speaking about a particular God (eg “your God” or “the Christian God”)? Also lacking is the use of reference to “a God”, as in “one of many”.
I’ve always wondered about this…