Religion of Peace

TQB · March 8, 2007, 1:57pm

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
…I’m not trying to find a way to be offended. What do you mean by trendy spelling? That is the correct way to spell it, and it has been the correct way for 1400 years. How is that trendy? If anything, Koran is the trendy word.

I still don’t understand. Koran is the English translation. It is an acceptable spelling.

The original document was written in Arabic with a different alphabet.

It is like color and colour. They are both acceptable.[/quote]

I understand your point and do not think it is a major issue. Perhaps it will help if you realise that the Koran in Arabic is spelled with the letter “qaf” at the beginning, the “q”-sound being at the back of the throat, not the letter “kaf”, a frontal “k”-sound. They have for many years been transliterated as q and k, respectively. No Arabic speaker would confuse them, while foreigners often do. Qalb=heart,kalb=dog. Now express your feelings to your Egyptian girlfriend:-)

JeffR · March 8, 2007, 2:05pm

[quote]RatHunter wrote:
What’s the difference between terrorists and armies? They both have the same purpose - kill for their ideals. Armies just have more money to support more killings.[/quote]

Actually, armies usually don’t target little girls at weddings.

Thanks for trivilizing the momentous and complicating the obvious.

JeffR

JeffR · March 8, 2007, 2:08pm

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Shoebolt wrote:
…
You encourage torture against a terrorist? That’s not a Christian, Islamic or Jewish belief. Torture is not allowed period. If you said capital punishment I would have agreed with you.

Jeff worships Set this week.[/quote]

Zap,

Quite correct, ALL HAIL SET!!!

Check this out: “Besides being the “Lord of Strength”, a dangerous warrior and sometimes protective deity, Set was also invoked as a God of love and pleasure. One particular spell asks that a man’s phallus remain rigid so he can pleasure his woman all night long just as Set’s remained hard for his brides.”

From: Set (deity) - Wikipedia

What more could you ask for in a God?!?

JeffR

JeffR · March 8, 2007, 2:14pm

[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
JeffR wrote:
lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
I think it would be helpful to have guys that are obviously hostile to the United States like lixy begin this discussion with an unequivocal denunciation of terrorist acts by islamic terrorists against civilians.

Thanks for drawing my attention to that fact. It’s just that it seemed trivial that anyone would be appalled by such demonstration of hatred and incitation to violence. I highly condemn such actions and actively fight them

This is a no-brainer, I denounce (and fight if necessary) anyone who harms another human being calls for harming one or even thinks of doing one or the other, regardless of nationality, race, religion or gender. I especially abhor such demonstrations of distilled hatred that condone terrorist actions, give Muslims a bad name and would definitely ashame the prophet Mohammed.

Hoping it’s unequivocal enough for you.

Unless there is a clear and unambiguous denunciation of these tactics, the conversation between an American and lixy should end immediately.

I take it as an honor to be the subject of a Fatwa decreed by JeffR.

Well, lixy.

I appreciate your response.

Let me add my own: Real Americans mourn each and every civilian death that occurs in the combat zone. Real Americans do not condone torture of anyone innocent. True Americans are saddened when we fall short of the ideals for which we stand.

JeffR

So I assume your very much against the newest torture bill then?

I told you clearly that I was against torturing innocents. I encourage torture against any terrorist.

Got it?

JeffR

You encourage torture against a terrorist? That’s not a Christian, Islamic or Jewish belief. Torture is not allowed period. If you said capital punishment I would have agreed with you.

[/quote]

shoebolt,

That’s because I worship ALL HAIL SET!!!

ALL HAIL SET!!! says that if you are planning to burn Americans to death in a pyre of flame, you should be tortured to give up all your information.

Remember that ALL HAIL SET!!! is the God of Thunder and Metals. Therefore, ALL HAIL SET!!! uses his thunderous voice and metals to get all the information out of a terrorist. ALL HAIL SET!!! believes that if you save one American soldier or civilian from harm, the torture is worth it.

ALL HAIL SET!!! is well aware that the War on Terror relies on information gathering perhaps more than in any conflict in history. Prevention of terrorism is essential.

Besides what does the slayer of apep care about the feelings of terrorists?

JeffR

Sloth · March 8, 2007, 2:57pm

No, it is not the same God! I can’t believe this arguement is even being put forth. When I, as a christian, worship or pray, it is with ideal of a totally different God than that of the Muslim or Jewish God. This is the part you folks continue to skip. You look at common history and say “Same God!” No, it’s common history, but with radically different God’s coming out of that common history.

You can not tell me that I worship the Muslim God, when I believe Jesus was God. It’s impossible.

derek · March 8, 2007, 3:43pm

[quote]shamus wrote:
Man, if you are so up on the wars, do you know about the bible, or know about the romans and the jews and the christians?! Republicans use fear, the word of “God”, And christianity as a basis for the war. FUCK THAT!

Every human should be allowed to worship as they want. If you wanna pray to a rock, worship it! It doesn’t affect me whatsoever!!! But don’t spout out that Muslim hating shit either! As Guns Stated, “I’m a small town white boy, just tryin’ to make ends meet! Don’t need your religion,I don’t watch tv, just makin a livin, baby, that’s enough for me!”[/quote]

Yes, Guns also said;

“Police and niggers, that’s right, get outta my way./ Don’t need to buy none of your gold chains today . . ./ Immigrants and faggots, they make no sense to me./ They come to our country and think they’ll do as they please,/ Like start some mini-Iran, or spread some fucking disease./ They talk so many goddam ways, it’s all Greek to me.”

GNR may not be the best source of quotes to make your point.

As for the rest of your uninformed post, have you been paying attention to this thread or did you just skip most of it?

I’m the one that started this thread yet I have been getting more aquainted with Islam with the help of a Muslim within this thread and learning about Islam as we go along.

No Muslim haters here, sorry. I love everyone no matter thier race, religion or background. I just strongly dislike evil, ignorant, biggoted people, whoever they are, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist etc.

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS · March 8, 2007, 4:09pm

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Real Americans do not condone torture of anyone innocent. True Americans are saddened when we fall short of the ideals for which we stand.

[/quote]
Typically we do not even want guilty people tortured as we believe in an ideal that even our “enemies” should be treated humanly, with respect and dignity.

Hanzo · March 8, 2007, 5:08pm

[quote]shamus wrote:
Hanzo wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Hanzo wrote:
Beowolf wrote:

When evaluating a RELIGION, TIME PERIOD matters SHIT.

The religion is timeless. It hasn’t changed. Christianity is just as disgusting as it was in the middle ages, the people who practice it are just less violent now.

no, it does matter. historical and contemporary philosophical contexts matter very much when evaluating a religion, or at least Christianity. weren’t you the one that just tried to compare the actions of adherents based on their age then you turn around and say time doesn’t matter.

That was the point. I was making the assertion that the actions of the followers do not always reflect the religion.

oh, didn’t sense the sarcasm. my mistake

Religion has caused 99% of the conflicts in history. Taxes are the other 1%.
I pray to my dog,Buddy. He’s a good confidant![/quote]

religion has played its part in many of the world’s conflicts but its oftentimes been used to further a political agenda. Since most states in the past were theocratic it would only be “natural” that wars that were waged had some religious influence, but really religion was used a a motivation and as a way to form alliances rather than the immediate cause of most of the past. Conflicts arise from the nature of humans and not necessarily the nature of religion. Look at the 20th century. How many of the wars waged truly had something do to with religion?

JeffR · March 8, 2007, 5:13pm

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Real Americans do not condone torture of anyone innocent. True Americans are saddened when we fall short of the ideals for which we stand.

Typically we do not even want guilty people tortured as we believe in an ideal that even our “enemies” should be treated humanly, with respect and dignity.
[/quote]

liftus,

I mean this with all disrespect: I said Real Americans.

Real Americans believe in democracy.

You believe in communism.

That invalidates you from the get go.

However, practicing communists seem to have had no problem with torture.

Therefore, not only are you not a real American, but, you aren’t even a real communist.

Your beliefs and life story, however, might make a wonderful episode for the Twilight Zone.

JeffR

TQB · March 8, 2007, 5:31pm

[quote]Sloth wrote:
No, it is not the same God! I can’t believe this arguement is even being put forth. When I, as a christian, worship or pray, it is with ideal of a totally different God than that of the Muslim or Jewish God. This is the part you folks continue to skip. You look at common history and say “Same God!” No, it’s common history, but with radically different God’s coming out of that common history.

You can not tell me that I worship the Muslim God, when I believe Jesus was God. It’s impossible. [/quote]

And yet, most Christians would disagree with you on the issue of a different God. Now, as a tentative Unitarian Christian, I would even disagree with you about the Trinity, but that is another discussion.

What you would probably agree with is that this diversity of beliefs, directly contradicts the original concept in this thread, i. e. Some Muslim are fanatics=TRUE. Ergo, All Muslims are fanatics. That would seem to be a logical misstep.

Cheers
TQB

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS · March 8, 2007, 5:36pm

[quote]JeffR wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Real Americans do not condone torture of anyone innocent. True Americans are saddened when we fall short of the ideals for which we stand.

Typically we do not even want guilty people tortured as we believe in an ideal that even our “enemies” should be treated humanly, with respect and dignity.

liftus,

I mean this with all disrespect: I said Real Americans.

Real Americans believe in democracy.

You believe in communism.

That invalidates you from the get go.

However, practicing communists seem to have had no problem with torture.

Therefore, not only are you not a real American, but, you aren’t even a real communist.

JeffR
[/quote]

Communism requires absolute democracy to work and capitalism is so very tyrannical that it actually works against democracy.

I am afraid also that you pigeon-hole Americans a little too compulsively. There is no such thing as a “real American” as we are all different in cultural background, ethnicity, etc. The only real Americans are the ones that were here before the white man pushed him out–let?s talk about “American” ideals.

“Gimme it. It’s mine, fucker!”

How?s that for American idealism,

derek · March 8, 2007, 6:06pm

[quote]TQB wrote:

What you would probably agree with is that this diversity of beliefs, directly contradicts the original concept in this thread, i. e. Some Muslim are fanatics=TRUE. Ergo, All Muslims are fanatics. That would seem to be a logical misstep.

Cheers
TQB
[/quote]

Not accusing here, just clarifying. I
want all to know that I do NOT lump all people in the same pile with the crazy members of that specific group.

I am pro-life but I do NOT picket clinincs or want to hurt or kill or intimidate women who choose to have an abortion.

This is an aside but possibly relevant since I started this thread.

Immediately after 9/11, a friend and I were in a local town one night looking for a convenience store. We happened upon one that had two patrol cars outside. As we walked in we noticed two things, the place was LOADED with American flags hanging from the ceiling and that the owners/proprietors were of Middle Eastern descent.

Putting 2 & 2 together, we decided that this store was the intended target of some racial “issues” (perhaps violent).

We also decided that this store was to now be our new go-to store for everything we could think of instead of patronizing the normal supermarket.

The reasoning behind that decision was one of sympathy and “brotherly love”. I fely badly for these guys that had been the victim of racial-based aggression/violence.

It was a small step I know, but we chose to assist fellow Americans regardless of thier religion in what was probably a very trying, possibly dangerous time for them due to “retribution” for 9/11.

No, I’m not asking for pats on the back, just trying to give some perspective about my true beliefs.

lixy · March 8, 2007, 6:10pm

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am afraid also that you pigeon-hole Americans a little too compulsively. There is no such thing as a “real American” as we are all different in cultural background, ethnicity, etc. The only real Americans are the ones that were here before the white man pushed him out–let?s talk about “American” ideals.

“Gimme it. It’s mine, fucker!”

How?s that for American idealism,
[/quote]

LOL

JeffR probably meant to say "people that he considers worthy of being called Americans.

Zap_Branigan · March 8, 2007, 6:41pm

[quote]TQB wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
…I’m not trying to find a way to be offended. What do you mean by trendy spelling? That is the correct way to spell it, and it has been the correct way for 1400 years. How is that trendy? If anything, Koran is the trendy word.

I still don’t understand. Koran is the English translation. It is an acceptable spelling.

The original document was written in Arabic with a different alphabet.

It is like color and colour. They are both acceptable.

I understand your point and do not think it is a major issue. Perhaps it will help if you realise that the Koran in Arabic is spelled with the letter “qaf” at the beginning, the “q”-sound being at the back of the throat, not the letter “kaf”, a frontal “k”-sound. They have for many years been transliterated as q and k, respectively. No Arabic speaker would confuse them, while foreigners often do. Qalb=heart,kalb=dog. Now express your feelings to your Egyptian girlfriend:-)[/quote]

This is what I was asking. If there is a real reason or not.

TQB · March 8, 2007, 6:46pm

[quote]derek wrote:
TQB wrote: