[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Monotheism doesn’t equal believing in the SAME diety. And, yes, Allah means god. I’m not sure why that’s relevant though. Is there a language that has no word for God? I’d doubt that, but I suppose it’s possible.
I see the confusion.
I was referring to the original message of Jesus and you’re thinking of its widespread modern form. The trinity doctrine was formulated in 325 AD. Also, aren’t Jehova’s witnesses Christians? How about Unitarians?
Allah in Arabic doesn’t mean god. Rather, it means God. That’s a rather important distinction in this context.[/quote]
I’m still confused. Are you arguing that the three religions are worshiping the SAME God? Maybe I misunderstood, and you aren’t. My point is that they most definitely are not. Oh yes, they very much share common religious roots. However, they absolutely do not worship the same God.
Very aware of what Allah means. Nothing more than a simple typo. Being a monotheistic religion it obviously refers to a one god. Aka, the God.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m still confused. Are you arguing that the three religions are worshiping the SAME God? Maybe I misunderstood, and you aren’t. My point is that they most definitely are not. Oh yes, they very much share common religious roots. However, they absolutely do not worship the same God. [/quote]
Yes, the three religions worship the same God. I pointed out how the trinity doctrine appeared around 325 AD to show that there are chances that it wasn’t part of the original message. Then I pointed out that there was a movement of Unitarian Christians who deny the trinity thing. For me and based on the Quran, it is evident that it’s the same god. I don’t have the shadow of a doubt. And that’s one of the reasons a Muslim should treat Jews and Christians with the utmost respect.
But if you’re looking for a clear-cut proof supporting the assertion that they all have the same god, I’m afraid it’s as conjectural as proving the existence of God himself
.
This excerpt from the Wiki might help;
“According to F. E. Peters, “The Qur’an insists, Muslims believe, and historians affirm that Muhammad and his followers worship the same God as the Jews. [29:46] The Quran’s Allah is the same Creator God who covenanted with Abraham”.”
[quote]lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
I think it would be helpful to have guys that are obviously hostile to the United States like lixy begin this discussion with an unequivocal denunciation of terrorist acts by islamic terrorists against civilians.
Thanks for drawing my attention to that fact. It’s just that it seemed trivial that anyone would be appalled by such demonstration of hatred and incitation to violence. I highly condemn such actions and actively fight them
This is a no-brainer, I denounce (and fight if necessary) anyone who harms another human being calls for harming one or even thinks of doing one or the other, regardless of nationality, race, religion or gender. I especially abhor such demonstrations of distilled hatred that condone terrorist actions, give Muslims a bad name and would definitely ashame the prophet Mohammed.
Hoping it’s unequivocal enough for you.
Unless there is a clear and unambiguous denunciation of these tactics, the conversation between an American and lixy should end immediately.
I take it as an honor to be the subject of a Fatwa decreed by JeffR.[/quote]
Well, lixy.
I appreciate your response.
Let me add my own: Real Americans mourn each and every civilian death that occurs in the combat zone. Real Americans do not condone torture of anyone innocent. True Americans are saddened when we fall short of the ideals for which we stand.
When evaluating a RELIGION, TIME PERIOD matters SHIT.
The religion is timeless. It hasn’t changed. Christianity is just as disgusting as it was in the middle ages, the people who practice it are just less violent now.
no, it does matter. historical and contemporary philosophical contexts matter very much when evaluating a religion, or at least Christianity. weren’t you the one that just tried to compare the actions of adherents based on their age then you turn around and say time doesn’t matter. [/quote]
That was the point. I was making the assertion that the actions of the followers do not always reflect the religion.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Monotheism doesn’t equal believing in the SAME diety. And, yes, Allah means god. I’m not sure why that’s relevant though. Is there a language that has no word for God? I’d doubt that, but I suppose it’s possible.
I see the confusion.
I was referring to the original message of Jesus and you’re thinking of its widespread modern form. The trinity doctrine was formulated in 325 AD. Also, aren’t Jehova’s witnesses Christians? How about Unitarians?
Allah in Arabic doesn’t mean god. Rather, it means God. That’s a rather important distinction in this context.
I’m still confused. Are you arguing that the three religions are worshiping the SAME God? Maybe I misunderstood, and you aren’t. My point is that they most definitely are not. Oh yes, they very much share common religious roots. However, they absolutely do not worship the same God.
Very aware of what Allah means. Nothing more than a simple typo. Being a monotheistic religion it obviously refers to a one god. Aka, the God.
[/quote]
It’s the same God. Period. The Muslims just believe in worshiping God in a MUCH different way than Christians or Jews. Why do you think ancient Muslim civilizations didn’t require Jews and Christians to convert to stay within their borders? Why they were generally accepted their, while those of other religions were not?
And don’t even try to say Christians and Jews don’t believe in the same God.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
I think it would be helpful to have guys that are obviously hostile to the United States like lixy begin this discussion with an unequivocal denunciation of terrorist acts by islamic terrorists against civilians.
Thanks for drawing my attention to that fact. It’s just that it seemed trivial that anyone would be appalled by such demonstration of hatred and incitation to violence. I highly condemn such actions and actively fight them
This is a no-brainer, I denounce (and fight if necessary) anyone who harms another human being calls for harming one or even thinks of doing one or the other, regardless of nationality, race, religion or gender. I especially abhor such demonstrations of distilled hatred that condone terrorist actions, give Muslims a bad name and would definitely ashame the prophet Mohammed.
Hoping it’s unequivocal enough for you.
Unless there is a clear and unambiguous denunciation of these tactics, the conversation between an American and lixy should end immediately.
I take it as an honor to be the subject of a Fatwa decreed by JeffR.
Well, lixy.
I appreciate your response.
Let me add my own: Real Americans mourn each and every civilian death that occurs in the combat zone. Real Americans do not condone torture of anyone innocent. True Americans are saddened when we fall short of the ideals for which we stand.
JeffR
[/quote]
So I assume your very much against the newest torture bill then?
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
JeffR wrote:
lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
I think it would be helpful to have guys that are obviously hostile to the United States like lixy begin this discussion with an unequivocal denunciation of terrorist acts by islamic terrorists against civilians.
Thanks for drawing my attention to that fact. It’s just that it seemed trivial that anyone would be appalled by such demonstration of hatred and incitation to violence. I highly condemn such actions and actively fight them
This is a no-brainer, I denounce (and fight if necessary) anyone who harms another human being calls for harming one or even thinks of doing one or the other, regardless of nationality, race, religion or gender. I especially abhor such demonstrations of distilled hatred that condone terrorist actions, give Muslims a bad name and would definitely ashame the prophet Mohammed.
Hoping it’s unequivocal enough for you.
Unless there is a clear and unambiguous denunciation of these tactics, the conversation between an American and lixy should end immediately.
I take it as an honor to be the subject of a Fatwa decreed by JeffR.
Well, lixy.
I appreciate your response.
Let me add my own: Real Americans mourn each and every civilian death that occurs in the combat zone. Real Americans do not condone torture of anyone innocent. True Americans are saddened when we fall short of the ideals for which we stand.
JeffR
So I assume your very much against the newest torture bill then?
[/quote]
I told you clearly that I was against torturing innocents. I encourage torture against any terrorist.
If you are quoting Islam’s holy book, PLEASE SPELL IT RIGHT!!!
QURAN, not Koran
Thank you
Why?
It has been spelled Koran in English for centuries, hasn’t it?
Isn’t it also spelled Q’uran?
Since English uses a different letter system I don’t see why one would be right and one would be wrong.
Quran is the proper spelling. Yes it has been spelled Koran in English for centuries, but that is wrong. I don’t know why people spell it like that. I guess they have never read the cover of a Quran, and decided to make it easy on them, although it is incorrect.
Why is it you never see Bible and Torah spelled wrong? Same number of letters and syllables as Quran, and easy to say, yet non-English speaking people always spell it right. Why is it that Quran is spelled wrong?[/quote]
Bro, it doesn’t matter… like I said, you can’t convert Arabic to English. Koran, Quran, Qur’aan, whatever. Qur’aan may sound the closest, but in the end, its just in English.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
lixy wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
Why is it you never see Bible and Torah spelled wrong? Same number of letters and syllables as Quran, and easy to say, yet non-English speaking people always spell it right. Why is it that Quran is spelled wrong?
Might have something to do with the English speaking world is mainly Judeo-Christian. Might also be because the other books have been around a few thousand years more than the Quran.
Who are you to say how people should spell it? The academy of English language? Try to focus on substance please.
Why would it matter if the other books have been around a few thousand years more than the Quran? That doesn’t give anyone the right to misspell it. Timeframes have nothing to do with spelling.
I still don’t understand how it is a misspelling. It is an English representation of an Arabic word using English lettering instead of Arabic.
Just because Qu’ran is the current trendy spelling does not make it correct.
It seems you just want to find a way to be offended.[/quote]
Lol Zap, for once I agree with you. tmoney, you’re making heaps out of grains, try to understand the main issue at hand please, and be a bit more understanding.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
JeffR wrote:
lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
I think it would be helpful to have guys that are obviously hostile to the United States like lixy begin this discussion with an unequivocal denunciation of terrorist acts by islamic terrorists against civilians.
Thanks for drawing my attention to that fact. It’s just that it seemed trivial that anyone would be appalled by such demonstration of hatred and incitation to violence. I highly condemn such actions and actively fight them
This is a no-brainer, I denounce (and fight if necessary) anyone who harms another human being calls for harming one or even thinks of doing one or the other, regardless of nationality, race, religion or gender. I especially abhor such demonstrations of distilled hatred that condone terrorist actions, give Muslims a bad name and would definitely ashame the prophet Mohammed.
Hoping it’s unequivocal enough for you.
Unless there is a clear and unambiguous denunciation of these tactics, the conversation between an American and lixy should end immediately.
I take it as an honor to be the subject of a Fatwa decreed by JeffR.
Well, lixy.
I appreciate your response.
Let me add my own: Real Americans mourn each and every civilian death that occurs in the combat zone. Real Americans do not condone torture of anyone innocent. True Americans are saddened when we fall short of the ideals for which we stand.
JeffR
So I assume your very much against the newest torture bill then?
I told you clearly that I was against torturing innocents. I encourage torture against any terrorist.
Got it?
JeffR
[/quote]
You encourage torture against a terrorist? That’s not a Christian, Islamic or Jewish belief. Torture is not allowed period. If you said capital punishment I would have agreed with you.
When evaluating a RELIGION, TIME PERIOD matters SHIT.
The religion is timeless. It hasn’t changed. Christianity is just as disgusting as it was in the middle ages, the people who practice it are just less violent now.
no, it does matter. historical and contemporary philosophical contexts matter very much when evaluating a religion, or at least Christianity. weren’t you the one that just tried to compare the actions of adherents based on their age then you turn around and say time doesn’t matter.
That was the point. I was making the assertion that the actions of the followers do not always reflect the religion.[/quote]
Man, if you are so up on the wars, do you know about the bible, or know about the romans and the jews and the christians?! Republicans use fear, the word of “God”, And christianity as a basis for the war. FUCK THAT!
Every human should be allowed to worship as they want. If you wanna pray to a rock, worship it! It doesn’t affect me whatsoever!!! But don’t spout out that Muslim hating shit either! As Guns Stated, “I’m a small town white boy, just tryin’ to make ends meet! Don’t need your religion,I don’t watch tv, just makin a livin, baby, that’s enough for me!”
When evaluating a RELIGION, TIME PERIOD matters SHIT.
The religion is timeless. It hasn’t changed. Christianity is just as disgusting as it was in the middle ages, the people who practice it are just less violent now.
no, it does matter. historical and contemporary philosophical contexts matter very much when evaluating a religion, or at least Christianity. weren’t you the one that just tried to compare the actions of adherents based on their age then you turn around and say time doesn’t matter.
That was the point. I was making the assertion that the actions of the followers do not always reflect the religion.
oh, didn’t sense the sarcasm. my mistake[/quote]
Religion has caused 99% of the conflicts in history. Taxes are the other 1%.
I pray to my dog,Buddy. He’s a good confidant!
I told you clearly that I was against torturing innocents. I encourage torture against any terrorist.
Got it?
JeffR
You encourage torture against a terrorist? That’s not a Christian, Islamic or Jewish belief. Torture is not allowed period. If you said capital punishment I would have agreed with you.
[/quote]
Well, from what my grandfather preached, and still does, and the other churches, ie Church of God profess, and the Bible leads us to believe, Jesus was tortured. But, evidence leads us to believe Jesus was Mac’n with a prostitute with about 53 other dudes, after he disappeared from the tomb. If he did come back, some republican, right-wing asshole would’ve locked him up for being a crazy liar! What if he came back to earth 3 years ago, he is probably in a looney bin saying, “But I am Jesus!” And the guards are like, “Yeah, right buddy. Lay down and go to sleep!”
What’s the difference between terrorists and armies? They both have the same purpose - kill for their ideals. Armies just have more money to support more killings.
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
…I’m not trying to find a way to be offended. What do you mean by trendy spelling? That is the correct way to spell it, and it has been the correct way for 1400 years. How is that trendy? If anything, Koran is the trendy word.[/quote]
I still don’t understand. Koran is the English translation. It is an acceptable spelling.
The original document was written in Arabic with a different alphabet.
It is like color and colour. They are both acceptable.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
No, christians, jews, and muslims do not worship the same god. According to Christians Christ was God. Part of the Trinity God-head, if you will. Don’t forget the Holy Spirit factor either.
To muslims he was was a prophet. That isn’t believing in the same god. They may share many of the same religious figures, but their respective God is vastly different. It’s like me throwing turkey between two slices of bread and insisting it’s a ham sandwich. Hey I still used bread, after all.[/quote]
Exactly. Since religion is merely mans flawed interpretation of the possible existence of a higher being this whole discussion can be viewed as silly but if we were to take it to the logical conclusion each religion must believe the other religions are incorrect and worshiping a false god.
Christianity believes Jesus is the son of god. Islam and Judaism do not.
This is a fundamental divergence.
Only one or the other can be correct. One religion may be worshiping the real god while the others are worshiping a false interpretation.
Claiming they are the same god is like claiming man and ape are the same creature because they evolved from the same starting point millions of years ago.
Of course if there is a higher power (and on beautiful mornings like this I sometime believe there is) I am sure he or she laughs at our petty religious squabbles.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Of course if there is a higher power (and on beautiful mornings like this I sometime believe there is) I am sure he or she laughs at our petty religious squabbles. [/quote]
[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
…
You encourage torture against a terrorist? That’s not a Christian, Islamic or Jewish belief. Torture is not allowed period. If you said capital punishment I would have agreed with you.