If you look at it symbolically, it’s not that bad.
Perhaps it will change? Just 15 years ago, some crazy assholes I knew who weren’t even Muslim would go beat up tranny prostitutes whenever they needed to let off steam and boast about it later because trannies were officially known as “human demons”(ren yao) in Mandarin. It’s different nowadays.
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Oh, but it already did change. Forty one years ago, to be exact. Change is a two way street.
Now we’re hoping it will change back, if the regime falls.
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Well, Muslim gays are openly and some flamboyantly gay here and around the region and people are generally cool with them. They make great best friends for younger Muslim chicks lol.
Even in Singapore, where homosexuality(anal sex) is illegal under the law, the government unofficially hinted that they will not enforce it, allowing gay festivals and stuff to take place and I think most people who know anything about Singapore knows that the government WILL ENFORCE the law. People there are purportedly more afraid of the government than people in China. Every China person I know who has visited Singapore has commented, “why are people so afraid of the government there?”.
They just keep it official in the law because they’re surrounded by Muslim countries and have a Muslim minority.
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Brunei isn’t fucking around either although they eventually backtracked on the death penalty but it’s still on the table.
“The laws introduced on 3 April marked the next phase of the legislation, and covered crimes punishable by amputation and stoning.”
"Under the legislation:
- Offences such as rape, adultery, sodomy, robbery and insult or defamation of the Prophet Muhammad carry the maximum penalty of death
- Lesbian sex carries a different penalty of 40 strokes of the cane and/or a maximum of 10 years in jail
- The punishment for theft is amputation
- Those who “persuade, tell or encourage” Muslim children under the age of 18 “to accept the teachings of religions other than Islam” are liable to a fine or jail
- Individuals who have not reached puberty but are convicted of certain offences may be instead subjected to whipping."
But they only have a population of 500,000 so they’re a small proportion of the Muslim world.
This is an excellent analysis from my favorite historians, framing much more eloquently some issues I’ve touched in this thread.
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Devine plan? No. A Divine plan, sure. That does not dictate individual choice within the plan. It’s like ‘The Game of Life’. You have to follow the path and you end up at “Retirement”, but the choices you make within the game dictate how you will end up in the game. Same with real life. Actually, it’s a well made game, fun to play with the kids.
On the Bible, give me a percent, 20% 50% 80%? Give me a number I can actually believe.
I’ve said it before on here that I am terrible at spelling and grammar. Was in with the slow kids for those classes. Got As in math up to linear algebra and multivariable calculus though.
Best guess is about 80%. I read it every day for years. I am willing to admit some of the OT I haven’t read (some of the chapters that are about lineage and such). I have read the whole NT and OT though Psalms (Proverbs about 10 times). Past Psalms I have probably read probably over half of it up to the NT.
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I was just poking a little fun, don’t take offense. I am a terrible speller, too.
Wanna semi google-proof test?
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Pat is worse. He’s just being an asshole.
What does this mean?
If biblical knowledge, I’ll humor you, but it’s been 10 years since I’ve read it.
That would be difficult.
It’s pat.
I’ll argue there is no free will!
And that the Divine Plan is the glorification of God.
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You just had to say that didn’t you.
FWIW, I am not sure exactly what to think on this topic. I’ll continue to act as if I have free will though, even though I do think strong cases exist for determinism, and compatibilism.
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Free Will is exibited from the Garden forward.
Even Jesus was presented with choosing in the desert temptation.
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Oh, let me clarify. God (Jesus) would be the only free will. Free to act within his nature.
My indecision (not settled on a position, really) rests on the nature of the creature.
Even so, I don’t see resisting temptation as being evidence of free will.
Don’t take this as a smarmy or clever retort (internet and all)
But my decision to accept Jesus comes from my observation of the nature of the Creator, as compared to myself (creature).
I view God as the Sovereign, which by necessity, places him above his creation. Able to do with and how all of his creation. Yet one little snippet -
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, overall the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image;
informs me that Man has a more valued place than the rest of the world. All of Mankind. He desires fellowship with all Man, not just some who were picked in a lottery. You are participating in this free will event, just as I am. Just as the fervent unbelievers on here are. God is allowing that, just as a human father does with his own son. You wish, hope, encourage, and enable the best for them. But in the end, you set them off to make their own decisions in life.
In the end, God allows each to decide his own fate - an eternity that is likened to a feast or one that is described as darkness and gnashing of teeth.
My words should not be misconstrued as thinking Man saves himself, but merely he accepts the invitation of God.
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Yep, gotcha. And it’s a fine argument.
But, I remain unconvinced.
I’m not sure we necessarily have to interpret being made in the image of God to refer to the possession of free will. It seems to me that we simply serve as a reflection (authority over the crawlers and the birds of the air, etc.) to some extent so as to glorify himself. That we, out of all creation, would be given authority over the earth. Yet, remain subordinate. We aren’t made gods. Only in the image of.
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