And like I said, the very fact that Martin Luther wasn’t captured by the Inquisition before he could do the kind of damage he did baffles me. lol. Probably something to ask in Quora, or a history expert.
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No shit. He essentially cut out ALL the middlemen including the POPE lmao.
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No. That is what Macron condemned. But while speaking against extremism and terrorism, he also spoke about France’s belief in free speech and Charlie Hebdo’s right to publish whatever it wants.
EDIT:
Read post out of context.
He also can’t condemn Charlie Hebdo.
I don’t know who that dude is lol.
It’s a magazine that has mocked Muhammad.
EDIT:
Read earlier post out of context.
Re: cartoons of Mohammad published in the mid 2000s:
Our conclusion was basically that if it was reasonably foreseeable by the publishers that there would be potential backlash such as riots and damage of private property given the political climate at the time, maybe the owners of damaged property should have the ability to seek out compensation from the publishers for damages in tort. Nothing criminal. But cases would likely have been dismissed by judges if the country values freedom of speech.
For defending free speech? That’s his job.
We are talking about Islam. Christians protested The Last Temptation of Christ but no one was beheaded.
I’ve heard Christians say they are against gay marriage but none of them has said they should be thrown off roofs.
EDIT:
Alright, sorry, yesterday and earlier I was suffering from a case of stupidity from a severe lack of sleep.
I just went back and reread the entire exchange.
So what I understand from your original post yesterday is that Macron is being called the Devil by that dude in the article for defending Charlie Hebdo and free speech while not calling out Islam, but only the radicals?
I didn’t read the article and got confused because we were having a con-current exchange on what defines “extremism”.
So, Khabib is either an idiot, or he’s virtue signaling to his Muslim fans as a celebrity, with the latter indicating that the need for such virtue signaling is due to the existence of a lot more “extremists” than we thought existed?
I’m not sure and I don’t like following news from that part of the world tbh. I already follow US, UK, and news around my region and that’s more than enough for me to handle so I don’t have much knowledge of these things unless they’re really big headlines. You gotta have this conversation with @loppar
Our conclusion was based on the climate around 15 years ago, right after 911, JI attacks, bombings in Bali and Thailand, the Abu Sayaf fucking shit up in the Philippines, the US attacking the middle east etc. Definitely it would be different now but I’ve not really dug deep into these issues recently so I’m not very up-to-date on what’s going on.
You know that right after 911, all the militaries around here were on alert as well because we thought there might be a coordinated worldwide attack? It was after 12am here when the last tower fell and then I spent the rest of the night ordering my guys to fill sandbags and shit because of orders from above lol. (IIRC you’re ex-military? You probably know what I’m talking about. Our unit was a bloody ammo dump lol. Some of the officers were scared shitless.)
I agreed with @BrickHead above that Christianity has had the ability to evolve with the times. My problem with Islam as a whole is that it has remained too conservative, probably because people don’t dare to speak out against stuff they find out dated, and politicians use it as a way of retaining power. It’s also a cultural or religious denomination thing. My most conservative Muslim friends are mostly of Arab descent while the others are from South Asia.
While I’m agreeing that Islam(as both a culture and religion) is still too conservative, it doesn’t mean I think most of them are “extremists” based on the definition I gave above.
To understand what I mean by “culture” in certain countries:
“If one of the parents is Muslim Malay as stated in Article 160 (2) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus the child is considered as a Bumiputra”
You see? If you are a Malay in Malaysia, you are essentially born into the religion and culture since both parents will be Muslims as a non-Muslim has to convert to get married to one. And you get special privileges. If you read the link, you’ll probably see how politicians retain power through the use of Islam as well.
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Khabib is a Dagestani first and foremost and has had similar pronouncements on social media in the past, only it flew below the radar because it dealt with local Russian issues.
A couple of years ago Khabib endorsed on VK (Russian Facebook) rape and death threats against a prominent (male) Russian rapper who’s allegedly in the closet after he announced a concert in Dagestan.
He also wrote a rambling stream-of-consciousness post against a theater troupe that visited Dagestan and performed a play where the female lead not only spoke but bared her shoulders as well (oh the horror) and ended up heavily implying that raping and killing the actors was the only sensible course of action to address this monstrosity.
While the entire Muslim world ignores the Uighurs (with the partial yet notable exemption of Shiites) and piles on the French, the entire “Judeo-Christian values” crowd is strangely silent, much like they were when Arab Christians were cleansed in Iraq and Syria.
In other words, it’s a pretty big showdown deciding whether Muslim values will be imposed on what can be broadly called the European civilization. And the unprobable leader of the Western world in that regard is a former merger & acquisitions specialist that managed Nestle’s purchase of baby food product lines.
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Arsenal shunned Mesut Ozil for speaking out on the Uyghurs.
What are “Muslim values” in the Western world anyway? In South Asia, so far the only countries that operate strictly under Sharia Law are Pakistan and Brunei. Other countries only apply it to certain things like family law while other races are exempt and only one province in Indonesia applies certain elements of it.
Is it the same in the Middle East and other places? I’m guessing not because most of these countries in South Asia were previously Western colonies. Are there more “extremists” since immigrants in the West are mostly from the Middle East?
He spoke out against the Nice beheading as well.
That’s the key issue. What is roughly called “Western Europe” is founded on a very Christian principle of secularism, namely the separation of church and state, where one’s religion is a private matter.
During the late 19th/20th centuries a breathtaking hubris of old colonial powers led them to believe that this peculiarly Christian concept is actually universal and inherent, much like human rights. And when this mistaken belief comes into contact with the adherents of a religion whose holy book details the organizational minutiae of everything, from how much one should give to charity to how the entire political system should be organized, you’ve got yourself a massive problem.
Which in turn leads us to the failed concept of multiculturalism - the premise that for example as a devout Muslim you can watch two dudes making out on the street without being even slightly offended/inconvenienced and then do all that Islam-related stuff in the privacy of your home. Doesn’t work like that, as it’s not Christianity.
This “secularism” thing also falls apart when applied to white Asians, aka Russians.
Saudi-funded fundamentalist mosques played a massive role, focusing on the susceptible and vulnerable. Most of the home-grown terrorist in Europe had a history of petty crime and drug dealing before being radicalized.
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So I guess this is limited to the Middle East and certain parts of Africa? Cos the LGBTQ fellows have parades and protests in Indonesia and even Malaysia is opening up to this.
It was later overturned(the verdict) but it’s still a gigantic step forward. This is just the law, though. In real life no one really cares.
And Caucasus. For example, the Iranian regime is big on lashing followed by a prison spell which many don’t survive and Chechnya had a big police-organized gay killing spree.
While I was in Iran I talked to a gay dude there - it’s completely messed up, they’re regularly rounded up, beaten up and sexually assaulted by cops who consider sexual favors from gay men a job perk.
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Everything I’ve ever heard about him shows he is a class act.
Except for the best man at his wedding, that is.