At the same time, I feel like back in the good ol days, that it didn’t matter much. The woman was still ostracized for the divorce. There was still shame, and pressure to keep the marriage going (there is still some today).
Specifically, not much if at all. I don’t necessarily think being well read on the subject is required to have legitimate doubt over a claim that it caused a list of social ills.
Not really. Maybe.
You would be jailed, hopefully.
I don’t see the relevance, except maybe to derive what you said below.
So this is the great wisdom embedded in the saying about people swinging arms in people’s faces?
Man, why didn’t you just say so!!
The saying goes further than that however. Why does it do that?
I see the point, but life is about compromises and to have it that patents stay indoors because they have babies would be unlivable, not to mention births are necessary for survival of the human race versus a tiny minority of adults who simply want to indulge themselves.
Family unit > indulgence of a few.
So you do not want to think about whether there is a cause and effect in any detail nor do you think it’s important to see the findings of those who researched the matter. That’s fine, but this would reasonably have someone thinking such a person’s statement as having little weight.
Would you take my input on how something is or isn’t engineered?
It’s similar but it’s not. I really don’t want to go any further cos I’m pretty tired atm lol.
That’s YOUR opinion and I respect that since I actually practice this in my own life(Shit, I’m Chinese. What do you expect lol?).
But I can’t make that decision for people I know who live lifestyles which would be considered “deviant” and are perfectly happy the way they are.
When you asked the question:
I am making the assumption that you have? If you have, I would expect you to be able to articulate why there is causation (or at least reasonable close to causation)? The argument should be able to stand on its own. This hasn’t been done yet.
Where we are is you made a claim, and I said I don’t buy it. You haven’t done much to support your claim, and now you seem to be appealing to authority. Just make your argument.
You cannot decide that because 1) you don’t want to and 2) you don’t run a country and 3) you likely aren’t powerful and influential enough to change the norms of a country (maybe you are).
There is actually an appeal to authority because those Much more qualified, experienced, and able did the heavy lifting for me. So obviously what I personally have experienced and observed and then actually read about why I experienced and observed it does have an appeal and the data and results are convincing to me and they are easy to access with typing or right swiping.
If I have time later I’ll delve in but others have done a better job than I ever will.
One simply step can be the search term “divorce sexual revolution” or “fatherlessness sexual evolution” and so on and so on.
I am not saying you need to have all original thoughts. I do not have issue if you get your ideas from experts, and then reiterate them. That is what I am asking for.
And I am sure many of these search hits would not be good proof. I bet I would have to sift though pages of the internet before I got to something reasonable, and I am not actually convinced good evidence exists in the first place.
Again, that is fine. You won’t be convinced. I am.
We’re at an impasse. (Is that the right word?)
What I’m saying is that I value individual freedom over anything else.
I’ve seen people running countries completely fuck things up while socially engineering traditional conservative and religious values. Look at Malaysia and Indonesia for reference.
What I am trying to get at is what convinced you? Can you reiterate it? I get you were convinced by experts in the field, what did they say that convinced you?
Michael Malice is a libertarian taking head (anarchist really) … Hoppe is a philosopher imo
No, it’s really not. Doesn’t stop people from doing it anyway. But, rape is always bad, wonton murder is always bad, violence against a peaceful population is always bad, child molestation is always bad, etc. These things are not up for interpretation, so I agree with @BrickHead here. These supposed freedoms have been hijacked and weaponized to be something other than what was originally intended. And horrific acts have been committed in those names.
What do we see now? Violence, harm, even murder being normalized, in the name of “justice” as a mere consequence of the gift of life itself. It is, so you just have to live with it. You have a naked attempt at pedophilia trying to be normalized in the “Cuties” movie, cleverly disguised and marketed as anti-pedo, while actively sexually exploiting kids.
This is post-modernism. This is intersectionality becoming a godless religion in it’s own right and lots of people have joined the church.
Without some clear-eye vision of morality, we will devolve into something much worse than we are right now.
I am sorry to hear about your chronic pain I know all too well how bad that sucks. At least it sounds like you are getting the good shit. Get well soon!
Could you explain in more detail what you see in those two countries?
That happened because of the sexual revolution. It’s really hard to point to anything good that came out of the sexual revolution except for maybe more sex.
I am not saying it’s good to be prudish about sex or it should be like it was in the 40’s that wasn’t good either, albeit far less destructive. A happy medium would be ideal, an acceptance of sex and it’s natural place in human existence and at least admitting its fun most of the time.
But not have, anything goes, all the time attitudes either.
People make too much of sex now-a-days, like everything is about sex all the time. From subtle references even in kids movies to full out XXXXXXXXX-porn to snuff and every tiny point in between, we are drowning in it all the time.
Sex has a place. It’s a primary driver in the human psyche. But it’s not everything, like it’s portrayed. You can barely watch any show or movie where their isn’t a sexual overlay in the story, no matter what it’s about.
The other casualty in the sexual revolution is strait men. Strait men are demonized as the patriarchy. Men are seen as caring only about sex, all the time.
I couldn’t even count how many times I have been at gatherings, where women huddle-up in their little groups and bitch about men and about how all men want is sex. Then they get to bragging about how much each woman turns their men down for sex and have a pissing contest on who humiliated their partners the most with their best “I have a headache” smackdown. ← Not to get off on a tangent too much, but that’s a pet peeve of mine hearing women say that shit. Like they get-off on humiliating their partners, who want to be intimate with them, in public. Like these women are soooo incredibly desirable as to be downright worshipped. Ooooo, it makes me mad what I hear that shit! Like I said, pet peeve.
But I digress…
The fact of the matter, men manage to find time to like other things and do other things and be involved in other things, other than constant sex. But we have been labeled as crazed, power hungry sex-maniacs who just want to subjugate women and make them cower to our every sexual need and then discard them until the next time.
This is easy to believe, so I understand why some believe it. I am saying perhaps it is a part of the equation, but I wouldn’t say it is the whole driving force. I think there are other variables.
I am not sure straight men have it all that bad in comparison to other groups. A few people like BLM say stuff, but hardly anyone really believes that straight men are a big issue.
They also tell each other everything about their man’s junk, how they are in bed, etc. Stuff men would not normally share about their partners. It is quite shocking to have the knowledge that many of my wife’s friends know all about my penis.
Ironically it lead to many men having less sex or no sex, let alone attracting women at all. A proposed outcome was that average Joes would have a an increased sexual menu. Well, obviously it didn’t work because many though not all, women took on a hypergamous “dating” strategy, leaving many ordinary guys with no one. A common retort to this recognition is, “Women just got better, increased their standards, and could no longer find their match,” implying men just had to get better too and “improve” themselves.
Agreed here, but under a certain set of circumstances (esp under that of religious doctrine), morality is definitively open to intepretation. If we theoretically lived in a theocracy under strict orthodox jewish rule getting a tattoo would be deemed immoral, sinful, potentially worthy of punishment.
I see no problem with tattoos etc. That’s more along the lines of what I was getting at. I recall reading the details about this one court case detailing sadomasochistic acts (absolutely horrific, I won’t go into detail). When pondering as to whether the offenders at hand should’ve been prosecuted the prospect of “consenting adults” and “civil liberties” came up. In the end said offenders were found guilty (this was some seriously fucked up shit), but one of the judges came to the conclusion “people may do things we don’t like and/or find morally abhorrent, but if these actions don’t induce serious detriment to the greater populace our individualistically perceived sense of morality isn’t just cause for inciting punishment and/or passing legislature”… Not word for word verbatim, but something along those lines.
This is what I mean by individualistic interpretation. Strict, orthodox jews are somewhat against inter religious marriage… They think it’s immoral, I personally couldn’t care less… You love who you love (so long as it isn’t a child or an animal).
I haven’t watched cuties and have no interest in doing so thus I can’t comment, however public backlash in response to the release of this film was massive. I don’t believe this is a “slippery slope”, imo pedophilia will never be considered a societally acceptable sexual orientation as the act of having sex with a child irreparably damages said child as opposed to two consenting adult men/women/two women and a man and whatnot.
Thank you for the kind words. I suppose one could call it “good”, but my cognitive faculties are operating at like 30%… Unfortunately it’s going to be this way for the next 5-7 days.
I can’t add all that much depth to this conversation in my current state thus for now I’m bowing out. I look forward to speaking to everyone within the near future 
It would be hard(and unfair) to go into detail without writing a full, in-depth essay but you can read about their histories online.
Simply put, Malaysia should be a first world country by now and Indonesia should have experience a similar rate of economic growth as China after the years following the Asian Financial Crisis. They have democracy, an abundance of natural resources and no major conflicts between different religious factions like in the Middle East.
However, every time shit fucks up their respective governments revert back to nationalism and religious virtue signaling, which impedes any attempts at reforms to rectify the aforementioned shit that fucked up. And then they blame minorities, mostly the Chinese (NOT CHINA. Chinese people by race who have long settled there over the last century).
Also, look up “affirmative action” in Malaysia and prepare to have your mind blown.