Well i have a few questions about protein synthesis and recovery.
How long does protein synthesis occur after your workout? Or is this still disputable?
Does protein synthesis only occur in this time period? If so then how do you recover damaged muscles the day after a workout or outside of the synthesis period?
On an off day do you consume as much protein and carbs as you do on a training day?
What are some of different aids to recovery other than massage therapy and pumping??
I’m not sure how long an elevated rate of protein synthesis is maintained, but at least for the remainder of the training day and the following day.
No. Protein synthesis and protein degradation are always happening, and they tend to balance each other out. A gain or loss of muscle tissue occurs when the proportion of protein synthesis or degradation is skewed in either direction.
I think it’s wise to consume an equal or only slightly lesser amount of calories and protein on at least the first rest day after a workout.
I believe I’ve read the Anabolic window after a workout can last up to 6 hours or so…could be off.
Its all about being in a positive nitrogen balance. When blood amino levels are sufficient, there won’t be any significant catabolism (protein degradation). Which is why many recommend getting your meals/protein in every 2-3 hours.
On an off day I’m consuming maybe only 50g less of protein than I would on a training day.
Definitely less carbs. No waxy maize so thats about -120g from a training day. No Gatorade -60g, sometimes no oatmeal -30g. But I usually replace the oatmeal with a banana on non-training days which almost cancels that out if not completely.
So thats about 180 less carbs and about 50 less protein = about 920 less total calories.
Didn’t realize how much less I’m taking in on a non-training day. But the majority of that is around the workout.
What happens to one muscle group’s
(ie - chest)recoverability the day after a training session when you go in to train back or legs.
Are those two muscle groups now competing for the nutrients during that anabolic window?
The simple answer is to get in your carbs and protein around the training session, and keep blood amino levels high throughout the rest of the day.
To the OP did you try the waxy maize yet?
Nitrogen balance is not a particularly reputable method to track protein utilization and/or protein synthesis.
Also, excepting the post-workout period, blood amino acid levels actually have relatively little to do with protein synthesis. Insulin is a much greater stimulator.
Not trying to butt heads, but doesn’t it make sense that if blood amino acids are elevated they are readily available for use?
If that then is the case muscle protein would not need to be degraded for use, as the aminos from the blood could be utilized instead.
Some would argue that insulin is mostly anabolic towards fat gain more so than muscle.
My beliefs are not etched in stone so please feel free to correct me if you see flaws in my logic.
It “makes sense” that not eating would cause you to lose fat, too, but things don’t always happen the way you’d expect.
Yes, they are available for use, but read what I said: it doesn’t significantly stimulate protein synthesis. It would limit protein degradation, though.
Regarding insulin, again you’re not reading what I said. Insulin is a much more potent stimulator of protein synthesis. Yes, if you have a bunch of glucose floating around in your bloodstream, it will probably store that as fat. But it still stimulate protein synthesis more. The key is not having a ton of glucose in your bloodstream at any one time.
I don’t think we differ in our ideas much.
After the workout it’s important to get in some quality nutrients: carbs and protein. Your body is in need of nutrients and its going to soak up protein whether there’s an insulin spike or not.
On non training days carbohydrates aren’t as important. Keeping blood amino acid levels up while maybe not necessarily stimulating protein synthesis are there to be used and prevent protein degradation to an extent.
[quote]rmccart1 wrote:
It “makes sense” that not eating would cause you to lose fat, too, but things don’t always happen the way you’d expect.
Yes, they are available for use, but read what I said: it doesn’t significantly stimulate protein synthesis. It would limit protein degradation, though.
Regarding insulin, again you’re not reading what I said. Insulin is a much more potent stimulator of protein synthesis. Yes, if you have a bunch of glucose floating around in your bloodstream, it will probably store that as fat. But it still stimulate protein synthesis more. The key is not having a ton of glucose in your bloodstream at any one time.[/quote]
ok so are you saying not to flood your bloodstream upon waking and postworkout?
Read this WHOLE thing.
Talks about protein synthesis, (e.g. “after resistance exercise, mixed muscle protein synthesis is stimulated for up to 48 h”) and nutrition after a workout.
Tell if you need more info.
So, the way I understand it, muscle growth is all about protein synthesis? If protein synthesis occurs up to maybe 48 hours after training, what is the benefit of waiting a week before training that same muscle group again? I understand the muscle has to recover especially if the trainee is really hitting it hard. Basically, is the muscle really growing anymore after synthesis ends? Also, are their different levels of synthesis? Will I encourage higher levels of synthesis by hitting a muscle group with multiple excercises like in a typical split, versus one excercise per group like a full body routine?
It seems obvious the more you train a muscle group, the more protein synthesis occurs, however, there has to be something in really working a muscle group once a week, even though synthesis for that group only happens four times a month instead maybe four times a week for a total body plan.
I’m not defending either way, just trying to be informed.
Jeez, I hope this all made sense.
It is true that to an extent, the more exercise-induced protein degradation which occurs, the greater will be the supercompensatory hypertrophy of the fibers, but after that point, additional microtrauma will only impede recovery. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to quantify protein degradation, and impossible without monitoring your blood profile.
This means you pretty much have to figure out when enough is enough for you, or in other words, how much volume and/or intensity gives you the greatest bang for your buck without excessively compromising recovery.
Ok gotcha thanks.
So basically, you are saying that some people can train each muscle group with one exercise and get optimal protein degradation while others might have to use multiple excercises, failure traing or whatever, to get the same response? That explains why some respond best to splits while others respond best to full body routines that are more frequent.
It seems that if two people respond to muscle stimulation in the same way, and if one did a split working each group once or twice per week, while the other did a full body four times per week, the dude doing full body would achieve better results due to more frequent protein synthesis? Sorry for that long sentence btw.
Now the question is what your optimal
level of exercise-induced protein degradation is? Too bad there isn’t an easy test for that as it would make it alot easier choosing routines.
Thanks!