I saw a homeless guy taking a shit in a baseball dugout this morning. Totally raw. Not parallel. Gear wins.
[quote]2-SCOOPS wrote:
the 100m record has been broken quite frequently. at the Drake Relays here there are about 20+ records each year that get broken at this high level event. and records getting broken all the time is not the problem with geared powerlifting, it’s a problem with powerlifting in general. the only records that do not get broken very often are the all time geared records and the all time raw records. do you even know how often new gear comes out? most of what is available now has been around since multiply has been popular. other than the metal jack line and overkill there has been no new gear in atleast 7 years. if you look at most of the videos of the new all time geared records, the gear they are using has been around for a while and the material has been around. since the metal jack and overkill has come out, only a couple records have fallen i believe. even so, that’s doing far better than the world 100m record which has been broken 8 times in the last 10 years.
to address the laura phelps video. she also raw squats over 600, and raw benches close to 350. i think that ads some validity to her lifting. as far as her saying that she squats 770 and not addressing the gear, i don’t blame her. there is nothing more complicated than trying to explain to non lifters about powerlifting gear. the general public is oblivious to gear and it just confuses them. [/quote]
This is completely unrelated, but how the hell did I not notice a fellow Iowan in here?
[quote]UAphenix wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
The biggest issue with geared powerlifting is that “world records” fall more rapidly in this sport than any other sport on the planet. Think about that for a second. How often does the 100m or 5000m world record get broken? How often does the raw bench record get broken? When new gear comes out records fall. I have drawn my own conclusions from this. [/quote]
you are in luck!! YOU sir can get a Metal Jack Squatter for $349 and a Jack shirt for $325 and break that world record!! haha
Seriously though, the raw lifting records get broken all the time too. in fact theres a thread on here about the guy benching 600something pounds raw. See for your self at PLwatch . com peeps break state record and national records all the time. Maybe reconsider your conclusions…
[/quote]
Part of this is because of the multiple federations/weight classes. Records get broken more often when there are effectively 500+ records that can be broken in the state/country/world due to all the feds and weight classes.
[/quote]
I know. Another huge issue with the sport. I think it is funny when Laura Phelps Sweat can actually say she sqauts more than Mikhail Koklaev. Of course what she does not say is the vastly differnt conditions in wich the weight was “squatted”. That is the issue guys, when she did this interview all she said was she squatted 770.
Misha just squatted 750 in his last power meet. The only term she used was squat meaning they did the same lift, so does that mean that she is stronger than him? Who do you think is a better squatter. Maybe a better question would be this: if you could chose one of them to have to squat a car that had fallen on top of you who would you pick? I know who I would pick for sure.
I will let you in on who and why. I would pick Koklaev, and I would pick him because he is stronger than her.
For the record, the raw bench record has not been touched in 7 years. It was broken by 4 pounds from a record that stood for 8 years. So that is an improvement of 4 pounds total in 15 years. How much has the shirted bench record improved in 15 years? [/quote]
Why is the argument always for real world scenarios when comparing to weights moved on a platform? I wouldn’t choose either of them because I would probably be dead. But I would much rather have a crane lift a car off me. It’s the same as asking if you would want Usain Bolt or Michael Johnson (400m WRholder) to deliver a letter on foot to a location 100miles away, if you wanted it there as quickly as possible? Again neither, you would pick option C, the delivery man using an automobile. Furthermore lifters have developed technique to push the most weight on the platform, using a barbell that’s perfectly balanced. Techniques were developed for excelling at this. How would that type of strength ever apply to a real world scenario? And come on you have to admit both lifts are awesome, when I look at lifts I also look at BW ratio, which at 181lbs, her pushing that kind of weight is 4.25xBW, which is unreal. Basically, there are many factors to look at when comparing lifts, too many really to say if one lift by one person is better than another persons lift and I think it’s ridiculous comparing something done in a controlled environment like a meet to a real world scenario.
[/quote]
My point was quite clear I thought. He is obviously stronger than her. I mean it is obvious right? And she squatted more than him. To a simple guy like me that just does not add up. The weights that you lift should have a very direct reflection of how strong you are. Especially in Powerlifting which is far less technical than Weightlfting. I don’t care about the car on top of me scenario, I just wanted to demonstrate that he is stonger than her. Do you refute that?
[quote]PeteS wrote:
[quote]man bear pig wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
This topic is funny as hell; allow me to spin a bit. Imagine if someone said that the only reason Usain Bolt can run a 3.94 sec 40 was because he was wearing Brand “X” shoe and brand “X” running suit. What if someone said that the reason Lance Armstrong could win 7 Tours was because he rode a 15# bike. You Hunt? You used an bow right? Not a new compound bow but an stick with a string made of gut right? Better yet a spear cause that’s raw man. Pick any sport, any champion and suggest it was gear that allowed them to excel at that sport. You’d prolly get told something along the lines of “well they would kick ass at that sport regardless of what gear they have because they are that good, they are in fact the best at what they do, the gear, which is accessible by all, merely helps them achieve their goals in the respective sport”.[/quote]
The contention is by how much gear improves performance and if some guy beat another because of his equipment or if he was actually stronger.
Secondly, there are debates in other sports about equipment, especially in swimming. Nike and Speedo were raging at each other trying to get the other’s suits banned from competition at the last olympics because of buoyancy profiles. The same thing happened in sprinting when Nike was trying to push full body suits with drag coefficients lower than skin. [/quote]
HARA, gotta disagree with you on the your first point, that can’t be the contention. Anyone competing knows that multiply is measured by multiply standards, raw by raw, they are different classifications when you sign your meet entry form…
[/quote]
I didn’t make any of the above points 
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
[quote]UAphenix wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
The biggest issue with geared powerlifting is that “world records” fall more rapidly in this sport than any other sport on the planet. Think about that for a second. How often does the 100m or 5000m world record get broken? How often does the raw bench record get broken? When new gear comes out records fall. I have drawn my own conclusions from this. [/quote]
you are in luck!! YOU sir can get a Metal Jack Squatter for $349 and a Jack shirt for $325 and break that world record!! haha
Seriously though, the raw lifting records get broken all the time too. in fact theres a thread on here about the guy benching 600something pounds raw. See for your self at PLwatch . com peeps break state record and national records all the time. Maybe reconsider your conclusions…
[/quote]
Part of this is because of the multiple federations/weight classes. Records get broken more often when there are effectively 500+ records that can be broken in the state/country/world due to all the feds and weight classes.
[/quote]
I know. Another huge issue with the sport. I think it is funny when Laura Phelps Sweat can actually say she sqauts more than Mikhail Koklaev. Of course what she does not say is the vastly differnt conditions in wich the weight was “squatted”. That is the issue guys, when she did this interview all she said was she squatted 770.
Misha just squatted 750 in his last power meet. The only term she used was squat meaning they did the same lift, so does that mean that she is stronger than him? Who do you think is a better squatter. Maybe a better question would be this: if you could chose one of them to have to squat a car that had fallen on top of you who would you pick? I know who I would pick for sure.
I will let you in on who and why. I would pick Koklaev, and I would pick him because he is stronger than her.
For the record, the raw bench record has not been touched in 7 years. It was broken by 4 pounds from a record that stood for 8 years. So that is an improvement of 4 pounds total in 15 years. How much has the shirted bench record improved in 15 years? [/quote]
Why is the argument always for real world scenarios when comparing to weights moved on a platform? I wouldn’t choose either of them because I would probably be dead. But I would much rather have a crane lift a car off me. It’s the same as asking if you would want Usain Bolt or Michael Johnson (400m WRholder) to deliver a letter on foot to a location 100miles away, if you wanted it there as quickly as possible? Again neither, you would pick option C, the delivery man using an automobile. Furthermore lifters have developed technique to push the most weight on the platform, using a barbell that’s perfectly balanced. Techniques were developed for excelling at this. How would that type of strength ever apply to a real world scenario? And come on you have to admit both lifts are awesome, when I look at lifts I also look at BW ratio, which at 181lbs, her pushing that kind of weight is 4.25xBW, which is unreal. Basically, there are many factors to look at when comparing lifts, too many really to say if one lift by one person is better than another persons lift and I think it’s ridiculous comparing something done in a controlled environment like a meet to a real world scenario.
[/quote]
My point was quite clear I thought. He is obviously stronger than her. I mean it is obvious right? And she squatted more than him. To a simple guy like me that just does not add up. The weights that you lift should have a very direct reflection of how strong you are. Especially in Powerlifting which is far less technical than Weightlfting. I don’t care about the car on top of me scenario, I just wanted to demonstrate that he is stonger than her. Do you refute that?
[/quote]
In this sport all that matters is what you do on the platform. Strength is relative, and I’ve already stated that comparing different lifts is like comparing apples to oranges but I’ll entertain your question. In day to day activities I’ll say he’s stronger than her, but looking at only the sport, specifically at the squat, has he had the bar loaded heavier than Phelps, squatted down to break parallel and stood up with it for a good lift? No, and you can cry and moan about the gear, but nothing is stopping him from throwing on gear and out squatting her if that’s the only factor. Until he squats more than her, she is in fact a stronger squatter in the sport of powerlifting, the numbers speak it loud and clearly.
Also, for you to say Powerlifting is “Far” less technical than Weightlifting indicates you haven’t spent much time on the platform and even less in gear. A great example, a couple of my friends, in the past have asked how my training was going and my numbers, when I would tell them and mention the gear, they would joke about the gear and how it’s doing all the work, well a couple times now I’ve had them throw my bench shirt on and give it a go, and it has stapled them every time and I have to grab it before it takes their head off. Once that happened they respected the gear and the time it takes to learn the technique to perform the lift let alone actually be able to use the shirt as an advantage. Any joe schmo can enter a powerlifting or weightlifting meet and perform the lifts doesn’t mean they’re going to be good. It takes time and dedication in both sports to learn the lifts and then you factor in gear it adds a whole other level to the time it takes to learn it.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
let me clarify what I mean by “geared” for me… I’m in semi gear whore mode. I train with Metal pro briefs and that’s it. They help me to not feel beat up. So I totally get what you mean Pete about feeling beat to shit with the heavy weights and long “stay times”. Sorry for any confusion y’all. [/quote]
that makes perfect sense. in fact, I train in the same kind of brief about 3 sizes too big for 90% of my squatting, and yeah, it keeps me from feeling to beat up. more gear and heavier weights is a different story. and btw, geared lifting is powerlifting,aany old ass can lift weights raw…
[quote]UAphenix wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
[quote]UAphenix wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
The biggest issue with geared powerlifting is that “world records” fall more rapidly in this sport than any other sport on the planet. Think about that for a second. How often does the 100m or 5000m world record get broken? How often does the raw bench record get broken? When new gear comes out records fall. I have drawn my own conclusions from this. [/quote]
you are in luck!! YOU sir can get a Metal Jack Squatter for $349 and a Jack shirt for $325 and break that world record!! haha
Seriously though, the raw lifting records get broken all the time too. in fact theres a thread on here about the guy benching 600something pounds raw. See for your self at PLwatch . com peeps break state record and national records all the time. Maybe reconsider your conclusions…
[/quote]
Part of this is because of the multiple federations/weight classes. Records get broken more often when there are effectively 500+ records that can be broken in the state/country/world due to all the feds and weight classes.
[/quote]
I know. Another huge issue with the sport. I think it is funny when Laura Phelps Sweat can actually say she sqauts more than Mikhail Koklaev. Of course what she does not say is the vastly differnt conditions in wich the weight was “squatted”. That is the issue guys, when she did this interview all she said was she squatted 770.
Misha just squatted 750 in his last power meet. The only term she used was squat meaning they did the same lift, so does that mean that she is stronger than him? Who do you think is a better squatter. Maybe a better question would be this: if you could chose one of them to have to squat a car that had fallen on top of you who would you pick? I know who I would pick for sure.
I will let you in on who and why. I would pick Koklaev, and I would pick him because he is stronger than her.
For the record, the raw bench record has not been touched in 7 years. It was broken by 4 pounds from a record that stood for 8 years. So that is an improvement of 4 pounds total in 15 years. How much has the shirted bench record improved in 15 years? [/quote]
Why is the argument always for real world scenarios when comparing to weights moved on a platform? I wouldn’t choose either of them because I would probably be dead. But I would much rather have a crane lift a car off me. It’s the same as asking if you would want Usain Bolt or Michael Johnson (400m WRholder) to deliver a letter on foot to a location 100miles away, if you wanted it there as quickly as possible? Again neither, you would pick option C, the delivery man using an automobile. Furthermore lifters have developed technique to push the most weight on the platform, using a barbell that’s perfectly balanced. Techniques were developed for excelling at this. How would that type of strength ever apply to a real world scenario? And come on you have to admit both lifts are awesome, when I look at lifts I also look at BW ratio, which at 181lbs, her pushing that kind of weight is 4.25xBW, which is unreal. Basically, there are many factors to look at when comparing lifts, too many really to say if one lift by one person is better than another persons lift and I think it’s ridiculous comparing something done in a controlled environment like a meet to a real world scenario.
[/quote]
My point was quite clear I thought. He is obviously stronger than her. I mean it is obvious right? And she squatted more than him. To a simple guy like me that just does not add up. The weights that you lift should have a very direct reflection of how strong you are. Especially in Powerlifting which is far less technical than Weightlfting. I don’t care about the car on top of me scenario, I just wanted to demonstrate that he is stonger than her. Do you refute that?
[/quote]
In this sport all that matters is what you do on the platform. Strength is relative, and I’ve already stated that comparing different lifts is like comparing apples to oranges but I’ll entertain your question. In day to day activities I’ll say he’s stronger than her, but looking at only the sport, specifically at the squat, has he had the bar loaded heavier than Phelps, squatted down to break parallel and stood up with it for a good lift? No, and you can cry and moan about the gear, but nothing is stopping him from throwing on gear and out squatting her if that’s the only factor. Until he squats more than her, she is in fact a stronger squatter in the sport of powerlifting, the numbers speak it loud and clearly.
Also, for you to say Powerlifting is “Far” less technical than Weightlifting indicates you haven’t spent much time on the platform and even less in gear. A great example, a couple of my friends, in the past have asked how my training was going and my numbers, when I would tell them and mention the gear, they would joke about the gear and how it’s doing all the work, well a couple times now I’ve had them throw my bench shirt on and give it a go, and it has stapled them every time and I have to grab it before it takes their head off. Once that happened they respected the gear and the time it takes to learn the technique to perform the lift let alone actually be able to use the shirt as an advantage. Any joe schmo can enter a powerlifting or weightlifting meet and perform the lifts doesn’t mean they’re going to be good. It takes time and dedication in both sports to learn the lifts and then you factor in gear it adds a whole other level to the time it takes to learn it. [/quote]
I have lifted in gear in the late 90’s. Different now obviously. But I am pretty sure you said that she was a STRONGER squatter than him. Did I read that right? Just to be clear he has squatted over 800. But lets just say his max is 700 for the sake of this discussion. How can you say she is stronger than him? I am not trying to be pig headed. You actually think she can squat more than him? Under the same conditions on a powerlifting platform? Head to head, same standards? Do the standards matter in regards to a contest of strength?
"Until he squats more than her, she is in fact a stronger squatter in the sport of powerlifting, the numbers speak it loud and clearly. "
^^^?
with just knee sleeves and an small OL style belt.
lets not get ridiculously contrary just for the sake of arguing on the internet UAphenix…
you do not believe she is a stronger squatter than he is, even before i posted that vid. this is getting stupid.
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
[quote]UAphenix wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
[quote]UAphenix wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
The biggest issue with geared powerlifting is that “world records” fall more rapidly in this sport than any other sport on the planet. Think about that for a second. How often does the 100m or 5000m world record get broken? How often does the raw bench record get broken? When new gear comes out records fall. I have drawn my own conclusions from this. [/quote]
you are in luck!! YOU sir can get a Metal Jack Squatter for $349 and a Jack shirt for $325 and break that world record!! haha
Seriously though, the raw lifting records get broken all the time too. in fact theres a thread on here about the guy benching 600something pounds raw. See for your self at PLwatch . com peeps break state record and national records all the time. Maybe reconsider your conclusions…
[/quote]
Part of this is because of the multiple federations/weight classes. Records get broken more often when there are effectively 500+ records that can be broken in the state/country/world due to all the feds and weight classes.
[/quote]
I know. Another huge issue with the sport. I think it is funny when Laura Phelps Sweat can actually say she sqauts more than Mikhail Koklaev. Of course what she does not say is the vastly differnt conditions in wich the weight was “squatted”. That is the issue guys, when she did this interview all she said was she squatted 770.
Misha just squatted 750 in his last power meet. The only term she used was squat meaning they did the same lift, so does that mean that she is stronger than him? Who do you think is a better squatter. Maybe a better question would be this: if you could chose one of them to have to squat a car that had fallen on top of you who would you pick? I know who I would pick for sure.
I will let you in on who and why. I would pick Koklaev, and I would pick him because he is stronger than her.
For the record, the raw bench record has not been touched in 7 years. It was broken by 4 pounds from a record that stood for 8 years. So that is an improvement of 4 pounds total in 15 years. How much has the shirted bench record improved in 15 years? [/quote]
Why is the argument always for real world scenarios when comparing to weights moved on a platform? I wouldn’t choose either of them because I would probably be dead. But I would much rather have a crane lift a car off me. It’s the same as asking if you would want Usain Bolt or Michael Johnson (400m WRholder) to deliver a letter on foot to a location 100miles away, if you wanted it there as quickly as possible? Again neither, you would pick option C, the delivery man using an automobile. Furthermore lifters have developed technique to push the most weight on the platform, using a barbell that’s perfectly balanced. Techniques were developed for excelling at this. How would that type of strength ever apply to a real world scenario? And come on you have to admit both lifts are awesome, when I look at lifts I also look at BW ratio, which at 181lbs, her pushing that kind of weight is 4.25xBW, which is unreal. Basically, there are many factors to look at when comparing lifts, too many really to say if one lift by one person is better than another persons lift and I think it’s ridiculous comparing something done in a controlled environment like a meet to a real world scenario.
[/quote]
My point was quite clear I thought. He is obviously stronger than her. I mean it is obvious right? And she squatted more than him. To a simple guy like me that just does not add up. The weights that you lift should have a very direct reflection of how strong you are. Especially in Powerlifting which is far less technical than Weightlfting. I don’t care about the car on top of me scenario, I just wanted to demonstrate that he is stonger than her. Do you refute that?
[/quote]
In this sport all that matters is what you do on the platform. Strength is relative, and I’ve already stated that comparing different lifts is like comparing apples to oranges but I’ll entertain your question. In day to day activities I’ll say he’s stronger than her, but looking at only the sport, specifically at the squat, has he had the bar loaded heavier than Phelps, squatted down to break parallel and stood up with it for a good lift? No, and you can cry and moan about the gear, but nothing is stopping him from throwing on gear and out squatting her if that’s the only factor. Until he squats more than her, she is in fact a stronger squatter in the sport of powerlifting, the numbers speak it loud and clearly.
Also, for you to say Powerlifting is “Far” less technical than Weightlifting indicates you haven’t spent much time on the platform and even less in gear. A great example, a couple of my friends, in the past have asked how my training was going and my numbers, when I would tell them and mention the gear, they would joke about the gear and how it’s doing all the work, well a couple times now I’ve had them throw my bench shirt on and give it a go, and it has stapled them every time and I have to grab it before it takes their head off. Once that happened they respected the gear and the time it takes to learn the technique to perform the lift let alone actually be able to use the shirt as an advantage. Any joe schmo can enter a powerlifting or weightlifting meet and perform the lifts doesn’t mean they’re going to be good. It takes time and dedication in both sports to learn the lifts and then you factor in gear it adds a whole other level to the time it takes to learn it. [/quote]
I have lifted in gear in the late 90’s. Different now obviously. But I am pretty sure you said that she was a STRONGER squatter than him. Did I read that right? Just to be clear he has squatted over 800. But lets just say his max is 700 for the sake of this discussion. How can you say she is stronger than him? I am not trying to be pig headed. You actually think she can squat more than him? Under the same conditions on a powerlifting platform? Head to head, same standards? Do the standards matter in regards to a contest of strength? [/quote]
Well with Heavythrower posting that video, I will say he’s a stronger squatter, I’ve been going off the numbers posted here. But even then she’s squatting 770 at 181, which makes her lb for lb stronger. Like I said before, it’s impossible to unbiasedly compare two different lifters, in different weight classes, at different meets using different requirements, there are just too many variables and each individual will interject their own opinion that each aspect adds or subtracts from the lift to objectively determine who is stronger…I could go on and on, but you get the point.
Powerlifting isn’t just about strength, you can have crazy retard or farm boy strength with horrible technique and get stapled by a weight that should be easy and will be easy once technique and form gets corrected. It requires even more time to work on technique in gear, but the benefit is being able to handle more weight once you get the technique down.
I can’t even laugh at this …
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I can’t even laugh at this …[/quote]
Just nod and smile. It’s ok to grimace on the inside. We need a flowchart of the raw vs gear debate because it’s so predictable that the next time it comes up, just post the flowchart and the entire argument will be done with.
[quote]grettiron wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
I can’t even laugh at this …[/quote]
Just nod and smile. It’s ok to grimace on the inside. We need a flowchart of the raw vs gear debate because it’s so predictable that the next time it comes up, just post the flowchart and the entire argument will be done with.[/quote]
LOL
I gotta say this thread has me laughing my ass off right now. I used to be a raw zealot as well, but then i said fuck it. Now i don’t want to do the powerlifts without gear. Definitely like my squat suit and i will not squat max weights without knee wraps ever again. It certainly can help me lift more, but my knees and hips have never felt better.
Gear4life brah, gearup and get yo gear on.
I found the picture funny. Though it actually has little to with the argument in this thread, it still fit with the idea of gearing up.
Yes but I see that as being wrong. You should go for the BARE minimum to hit it. I’m not saying you suddenly must ATG everything and pause it for 5 seconds to make it count but equally lifters should NOT WANT to lift in organisations that clearly accept high squats.
I think you have to maintain integrity. Many are going to these to squat high and get bigger numbers. Personally, I feel that’s very wrong.
[quote]greystoke wrote:
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
Not looking to start a debate on raw vs single vs multi ply. [/quote]
Yea you are.[/quote]
Took a little longer than I thought it would, but it’s rolling along nicely now.
I guess I’m done. I feel pretty stupid trying to convince people to see things my way. These debates are kind of like opposing religions arguing which one is better. No one ever wins. But when you are in the middle of typing what you have to say, you swear that no one will be able to come back with a response to refute your point. I like raw powerlifting. I also like rare steaks. Just because I think they are both better does not mean that you will. Altough you should like rare steaks better.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
You Hunt? You used an bow right? Not a new compound bow but an stick with a string made of gut right? Better yet a spear cause that’s raw man.
The American society is built on excesses.[/quote]
I’ve never used gear and always wondered why people would want to but the aboce qoute outs it in perspective better for me…
I’ve hunted with a rifle my whole life and have always thought of bow hunters as arrogant…(i.e. self proclaimed real hunters)…
A few years back I killed the biggest buck of my life and decided to have it mounted…took it to the taxidermist and a bunch of bow whores inspected my kill and proclaimed that it was ashame I didn’t take it with a bow as it would’ve made a record…
It didn’t take away from my experience and just made it clear to me that people no matter what the sport always like to try to feel superior…
Bottom line for me…I don;t care what kind of hunter people think I am…I like using a rifle for my own reasons of why it’s cool for me…(I love the sound of a muzzle blast and I love the huge exit wounds)…
I can see how this would fit in with geared lifting with being able to lift more…ie coolnes factor…cross sport comparison really are not comparable…apples and oranges…but people will always skew their perspectives to feel better about their own accomplishments…
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
I guess I’m done. I feel pretty stupid trying to convince people to see things my way. These debates are kind of like opposing religions arguing which one is better. No one ever wins. But when you are in the middle of typing what you have to say, you swear that no one will be able to come back with a response to refute your point. I like raw powerlifting. I also like rare steaks. Just because I think they are both better does not mean that you will. Altough you should like rare steaks better. [/quote]
This is true; particularly about the steak
My daughter had to do a presentation this week for an ethics course on pro-choice/pro-life. She said it went well and although there was a lot of debate, it didn’t get ugly or unruly. I suggested next time she do it on raw vs. geared lifting and see how that goes
I don’t see the gear vs raw debate as different than what happens in any other sport. I’m sure people pissed and moaned about losing the high jump gold to Dick Fosbury in 1968. He was using a new (read: cheating) technique, after all. It’s the evolution of the sport. Gear can’t keep improving so dramatically forever…this is just the stage where it’s making the biggest jumps.
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
I guess I’m done. I feel pretty stupid trying to convince people to see things my way. These debates are kind of like opposing religions arguing which one is better. No one ever wins. But when you are in the middle of typing what you have to say, you swear that no one will be able to come back with a response to refute your point. I like raw powerlifting. I also like rare steaks. Just because I think they are both better does not mean that you will. Altough you should like rare steaks better. [/quote]
I’m fine with agreeing to disagree. Now on the steak, the only steak that should be rare is Prime Rib, all other steak cuts should be medium rare, in fact well done shouldn’t even be an option on a menu, to not agree with this is ridiculous 