This was exactly how I felt when starting daily shots. At the 6 week mark I felt like maybe it wasn’t for me. I stuck it out another 2 weeks and by week 8 I was starting to feel good. Been great ever since. I think a majority of folks that hate on daily (of the ones that actually even tried it) didn’t give it enough time to work. It definitely took longer than less frequent shots to start working.
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That’s probably me, tbh. I only gave it like a month and didn’t feel a difference — but probably need more time. Dex, have you messed around with SQ at all?
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Hell yeah on the BP and house agreement! So fired up for you brother
Ahhh, that would be nice — so there’s no issue with ‘mixing’ the substances in one go? I usually inject Test in the AM and Ipa in the PM; what do you think would be the right time? Don’t want it to keep me awake, as you clearly understand, lol.
Thanks bro!!
I’ve never done it personally because I only inject test, but I’ve read a lot of other guys here that mix water based compounds with their test injections. I think @studhammer does this as well if I’m not mistaken.
The test is suspended in oil, and the Ipamorelin in bacteriostatic water so they won’t mix in the syringe. I would image that it would be fairly easy. Here’s how I would try it…purely from just thinking it through and not from experience lol.
20IU Ipamorelin (no idea on dosing for this lol) and 26mg (0.13mL) test example.
- Draw the Ipamorelin in and measure as normal.
- Withdraw the needle from the vial and then draw approximately 0.5mL air into the syringe, holding it needle end up.
- With the needle still up, turn the test vial upside down and push down onto needle.
- Inject 0.2mL of the air into the test vial, and then draw the test.
- Since the oil and water will not mix, the Ipamorelin should remain at the bottom near the plunger, while the test stays on top, allowing you to properly measure the test dose by overdrawing the test measure, and pushing it back into the vial until the plunger is at .33mL (0.2mL Ipamorelin + 0.13mL Test)
Seems like this should work. You could also draw into two separate syringes and then use both of them to back fill a third syringe and inject with that. That would completely eliminate ANY possibility for cross contamination, but you’ll basically use 3 syringes every day.
On timing, I always inject first thing in the morning, but I’ve read that Ipamorelin is helpful for sleep when injected at night. If I were doing both I would just inject at night. You’re injecting smaller amounts of test by doing ED so if you’re one of those guys that can distinctly “feel” the test after your injection, the effect should be much less with the smaller dose.
ED injections are much more subtle, at least until you reach stable serum concentration at which time you’ll actually have a little higher Free T typically than you would with less frequent injections. Matter of fact, some guys find that they need to decrease their dose when going to more frequent protocols because of this. Also, because the concentration is so much more stable, there is less aromatase because
- There is a smaller amount being injected at one time, and
- There are no real “peaks and valleys”.
What this means is that if the test is always stable, so will the E2 levels be. E2 follows T but it lags a bit.
Where most guys feel issues is when the T peaks really high, then the aromatase starts converting T to E2 a little later. Then the E2 levels go up and by this time T is falling. It really screws with the ratio and keeps it in constant flux. With ED, you eliminate this and allow T and E2 to stabilize and live in harmony! Lol
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@bkb333 - I’ve been on TRT for 2 years now and only injected sub q. I found this excerpt from the Testosterone deficiency guidelines and interesting look at sub q and IM, their peak times and half-lives.
https://www.auanet.org/guidelines/testosterone-deficiency-guideline
" Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics. The pharmacokinetics of short-acting testosterone therapy depends on the dose, interval, and method of delivery (SQ versus IM). In a study directly comparing the pharmacokinetics of 2 doses of SQ testosterone enanthate injected weekly (50 or 100 mg) and 1 concentration of IM testosterone enanthate injected once (200 mg), the IM testosterone achieved the highest peak testosterone (mean 2,261 ng/dL) followed by SQ 100 mg (1,345 ng/dL) and SQ 50 mg (622 ng/dL).437 The time-to-peak level was slightly faster with IM testosterone (33 hours) compared to SQ 100 mg (36 hours) and SQ 50 mg (45 hours). The half-life for IM testosterone was also shorter at 173 hours versus 240 hours for SQ testosterone. Mean testosterone values over a 7-day time period were 1,659, 896, and 422 ng/dL for IM testosterone SQ 100, and SQ 50, respectively."
No, I don’t mix oil based with water based. Two different kinds of applications IMO
So, think putting both in the same syringe is a bad idea?
So IM would seem to deliver higher levels that return to baseline more quickly, but it’s kind of misleading because they injected 200 IM and 50 or 100 SQ. What was your key takeaway from that study?
Definitely hear you on the ED approach. Makes complete sense with the conversion to E and the negation of “peaks and valleys.” Out of curiosity, did you try ED IM, or just ED SQ? SQ would definitely be more comfortable lol. IM injections sometimes can hurt.
Anyone tried out the ‘back’ or ‘lower loins’ injection sites? I’ve always gone into the abdomen, which is fine – but I am wary of getting needle holes because I inject so often, will probably be injecting for the rest of my life, and just turned 28! I figure these two sites aren’t noticeable to anyone but the wifey.
I shoot subq but I’m glutei. 5/8 inch needle
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When I did 3x / week I did IM and had no issues. I switched to subQ expressly for the purpose of doing daily injections because I didn’t want the possibility of scarring in the muscle tissue.
IMO, when you workout and continually monitor (and actively control) diet, then the body goes through cycles (bulking and cutting). That being the case, fat tissue is constantly being recycled so to speak. You burn for a few months and put some back for a few months. The way I see it, there’s no way to do any permanent damage injecting into fat tissue. No way to scar fat, and the pockets you create with the injection will be negated by the dynamic of cutting and bulking.
This is just my opinion though and I may be way off. Also, I’m not worried about the minute punctures in the skin because it is constantly being regenerated as well.
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Interesting theory – you think it still applies (for active dudes like us) even if you don’t really “bulk and cut” and the scale doesn’t fluctuate that much? I don’t believe in the traditional bodybuilding bulking approach anymore, never want to “get fat” anymore, lol. That said, I am in a slight caloric surplus right now, so I guess technically I’m bulking.
Crowd, thoughts on bulking/cutting vs. recomp?
With peptides we’re talking minuscule amounts compared to gear. Just seems like too much trouble
Yeah I started daily shots doing sub-q. Did it for a long while and then switched to daily IM. I personally don’t notice much difference except in my head I think I feel the T kick in on IM whereas sub-q feels more constant. It’s not enough of a difference for me to even know if I’m making it up truthfully. Reality is whatever we want it to be. I would bet levels are higher on sub-q than IM. I’d start sub-q if I were you.
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Doing daily shots makes this study not very applicable. Also, I’ve tried sub-q love handles, navel, back etc. The fat in the navel region is a different “consistency” (for lack of a better word) than fat elsewhere. Dr Crisler pointed it out in his sub-q how-to video which made me notice it when I’m in the OR. The fat in the navel region is like room temperature butter vs that in the ass which is more like cold butter. The navel region would seem to be the ideal area for sub-q.
Love the butter analogy – do you find the needle ‘slides in’ more easily to the naval area, because it’s more like room temperature? In other words, do you find one area more painful than the others? Naval isn’t too bad for me right now because I’m around 11%, but when I get sub-10 it can be tough to grab enough meat.
When do you feel it kick in, usually? Hey, I believe you man. We all definitely have a different experience on T. If I’ve learned anything over the past 2 years messing around with hormones, it’s that they’re incredibly powerful and the average person has no idea how much their levels impact their day-to-day well-being.