16 when I was put on, not 18 (or was I 17… I can’t recall). Not surprising at all considering I had legitimate, fairly long-standing hypogonadism confirmed via numerous testing. It took a while to get on (due to my age) however if one legitimately requires a medicine in order to function, chances are they’ll get it eventually.
It was either that or… do absolutely nothing and just live with it (with a TT of sub 250 that’s not particularly a feasible option)
At the time I’d already had a well established history of fairly atypical medical pathology (chronic pain etc) for my age demographic, thus it didn’t particularly come as a surprise (well actually it did… as no discernible cause could be found despite fairly rigorous testing, I’d hypothesise it was in part due to the extensive, heavy medication I’d been on since say… age seven, radiation exposure (numerous CT scans), numerous traumatic events regarding testicular trauma, potentially in part due to my massively premature birth (born under 7 months woot, barely survived yeeeet).
Whew! Lot of stuff going on with this thread lol. Trying to get caught up…
Let me ask a couple questions…
Besides changing your dose, has ANYTHING else changed? Diet? Exercise frequency or intensity? Stress at work or home?
OF COURSE you felt way better at supra levels brother, and who wouldn’t? But you know what else was different a few months ago? Your motivation and excitement about seeing new things happening with your body and in your life.
Forget about what levels you are at for a few weeks, and evaluate whether or not you have let yourself get stale in other areas. Are you focusing on nailing that diet to the gnats ass? Have you tweaked your caloric intake to compensate for the changes in your body composition? Are you putting in max effort during your workout sessions, even on the days when you don’t FEEL it? If not, then get your mind right and see if the body follows. Give it some time brother and you’ll get that laser focus back.
I’ve still been lifting 6-7 times per week, but my drive in my lifts hasn’t been there. I just don’t feel I reach that extra “gear” I had over the summer. That said, I’m still showing up and giving it all I have; I just feel like there’s less to give. Stress has definitely increased. I have way more work on my plate. That could certainly be playing a role, but I wouldn’t expect it to be this massive of a change. I think it’s probably physiology + psychology working together in this case.
I’ve still been 100% on my diet, hitting calories and macros perfectly each day.
This is exactly on point… You are going through a stibilization period, AND dealing with the added stress from more work load at the same time. These two things compounded, while they seem small in isolation, can have a profound impact on your perception. Ride it out brother and give the protocol time to settle down. Then start addressing the increased work load. you may find that it’s no big deal once your hormonal stabilization period has ended. You may also find that the added work load cuts too much into your life, and doesn’t allow for you to have as much time doing other things, like effectively working out, or spending quality time with the wife.
The “one thing at a time” approach applies here as well. Remember, you can’t obsess over the numbers. Both sides of the TRT philosophy aisle are right, but just like all things, you’ll find the real truth somewhere between the two… Allow your body to find it’s balance on the protocol that you are on now, then pull the labs. If you find that there is an estrogen dominance, increase your T dose a tad. If you find that your E2 naturally settles in too low, without exogenous influence like taking AI’s or or trying to proactively lower estrogen through dietary means, then you need to back the T off a little. It’s all about finding that ratio for you.
Try increasing your calories by 100kcal a day, and have 20g-30g High GI carb (like Dextrose or white rice) about 45 minutes before your workout.
If that doesn’t make any pronounced difference after a couple of weeks, then it may be time to take a week off of lifting and allow your body to recover.
You might not want to hear this but I think you should probably cut back on the lifting some too. 6-7 days a week is a lot. With as high as your levels were, you could probably get away with it just fine just as pros can with all the gear they are on. Now that you have cut down your dose some, it may be catching up or may catch up to you later. Your body needs the time to heal and recover and personally 6-7 days is too much for the CNS IMHO. Just my 0.02.
You definitely have a valid point. I’d say the same thing to most people. But to be honest, my workouts aren’t very intense. I stretch/do mobility for 10 minutes and then lift for about 25-35 minutes, usually 3 movements of 3-4 sets. For example, today was just incline bench, military press, barbell skullcrushers, and crunches, and I got it all done in 30 minutes. So I don’t think I’m overtraining.
Another difference is that, due to a much more demanding schedule, I’ve had to start working out first thing in the AM (6:30ish), whereas previously I was lifting later in the day, with food in my system. I’m positive that’s making a difference, too. Should probably start scooping some dextrose into my preworkout! I did also just up my calories by 100 right before you said that, lol. Same page.
Yep, I’m not gonna do anything drastic. That said, after reading a bunch of opinions here and talking to my provider, I did increase my dose to 200 per week, eliminate HCG, and lower Danazol. I do think some changes to my protocol were necessary, despite the undeniable reality that stress is clearly playing a role. It’s only been a week or so and is probably in my head but I already do feel better.
Finally had sex the other night and have been in a bit of a better mood! Far from where I was over the summer, but definitely better than I was before.
I’m really looking forward to winter break (begins early December; I’m on the academic calendar). I should have my hormones better sorted by then and will have way more time and energy to focus on lifting. Plus the gym will be empty over winter break!
I’m craving a douchey, pumptastic, hypertrophy-oriented bodybuilding program. I like to lift 6-7 days a week. Any recommendations?
They are pretty short because I’m keeping rest times really short. I used to do a PPL 6 days a week and I’d take enough rest between sets to hit my prescribed number of Reps per set. Now I’m taking a short breather and just giving it all I’ve got. I have a training journal that has a couple entries of the new stuff so far on here.
Give this a shot… It’s a Dorian Yates style routine (that should be very clearly evident by the time you finish up on back day lol) that I modified a bit. One of my favorites!
Edit to add … Run this no more than 6 weeks and then take a week or so off. Running this too long WILL result in overtraining.
On all exercises, the first one or two sets (as noted) are warmups 12 reps to NEAR failure. The last set is 8-10 reps to absolute failure and try to do a few negative reps on top of the set.
Day 3 and 5 will be cardio. Either 10min HIIT or 30min SS.
Day 1 Shoulders / Tris / Abs
Smith Machine OH Press 2x12 / 1x8-10
DB Lateral Raise 2x12 / 1x8-10
1 Arm Cable Lateral Raise 1x12 / 1x8-10
DB Shrugs 1x12 / 1x8-10
Tricep Pressdown 2x12 / 1x8-10
Skull Crushers 1x12 / 1x8-10
Romanian Sit-ups 1x20
Decline Crunch 1x20
Reverse Crunch 1x20
Day 2 Back
Machine or DB Pullover 2x12 / 1x8-10
Close Grip Pulldown 2x12 / 1x8-10
Reverse Hammer Pulldown 1x12 / 1x8-10
DB Row 1x12 / 1x8-10
Wide Grip Seated Row 1x12 / 1x8-10
Romanian Deadlift 1x12 / 1x8-10
Hyper Extensions (Lower Back) 1x8-10
Have to recommend a new Netflix series: Living With Yourself.
I’ve never seen an entertainment product better represent how it feels to live with low T vs. high T – though that isn’t explicitly discussed in the show. He gets a holistic “spa treatment” and is cloned into a better version of himself.
In the low-T version, Paul Rudd is lifeless, boring, lacks motivation, no libido, no confidence, etc. Just pathetic. The high-T version of Rudd, however, is incredibly charismatic, driven, irresistible to his wife, etc. Dynamic, likeable alpha.
He’s the same guy, yet totally different.
I told my wife about this comparison after we watched together. She was blown away: That’s really what it feels like? Yes it is.
I’d love to hear other guys’ thoughts on the comparison if they’ve watched.
@bkb333 - Amazing! Such a spot on comparison and I never thought of it quite that deeply…but as I was watching, I found myself relating at times to the high-t version of Rudd. Better, more clear thoughts/ideas, witty, easy to talk to people, great sense of well being.
I’m on EOD shots…and using this great comparison…I feel like high-t Rudd 12-16 hours after my injection…and even though my levels are still higher on trough day, I start to feel closer to low-t Rudd.
I’m considering moving to every day shots, but something I can’t totally put my finger is still holding me back.
What is the protocol you’ve settled in on again? How have you been doing on it? Are you feeling like high-t Rudd all the time? This is great by the way…I’ll never watch that again and not think he’s “high-t Rudd”.
So happy to hear that, brother! You seem to be absolutely crushing it. I love that feeling. And I’m glad you see the same thing I do in that show – such a crazy correlation, right? They captured it so well.
I find it fascinating that you’re able to pinpoint that much of a difference in your levels based on timing of injection; you must be super in tune with yourself. How much are you injecting EOD? And how long have you been taking T? I have a harder time recognizing differences based on timing.
I am injecting 3X per week (200 mg total). I switched to daily pins for a while, but didn’t notice any difference, and obviously it’s less convenient having to stick yourself every day, so I switched back to 3X.
I was absolutely feeling like high-T Rudd over the summer, when I was nearing 300 mg, but we lowered my dose to 150 (due to concerns about long-term sky-high levels) and I went back to feeling like low-T Rudd. Lost all the juice I had. Ugh!
As you understand, it absolutely sucks. Once you feel like high-T Rudd, you want to stay there forever. However, I’m back up to 200 and trying to climb back to that point. Just want to find something that makes me feel that way, is sustainable, and won’t kill me early, lol. Maybe it’s a pipe dream.
I totally see the high-t/low-t comparisons with the Rudd’s…I never really knew I sank into low-t Rudd until I felt what it was to be like high-t Rudd. I bet I’ve had low-t for a lot longer than I know.
I have no idea why I can “feel” the T kicking in, but it’s such a distinct feeling that it’s hard to miss. Almost like I feel so good I smile and start to low level laugh. It feels so good.
Have been on TRT for 2 years. I started with 50mg e3 days days…which wasn’t doing it, so my doc upped me to 60mg e3 days. I started feeling better, but I must be sensitive to excess androgens in short burst.The day after I took a 60mg shot, I couldn’t pee (BPH) and just felt too amped. Those feelings improved the closer I got to my next shot…but I decided to go EOD to see if I could alleviate some of those intense feelings and issues.
I moved to 34mg EOD and things did improve. My TT levels only came back between 590s - low 600s…so I decided to increase myself and worked up to where I am now at 42mg EOD (147mg a week).
From January until June I wasn’t as accurate as I should have been with dosing and I think I was more around 150 - 155mg a week, which brought my levels to TT - 1192, FT - 230 (23.0) and Sensitive E2 - 41. Doc didn’t seem to mind, as long as I was feeling good.
At these levels, I started to almost feel like high-t Rudd most of the time…and I had an insatiable sex appetite too. I’m wondering if I move to ED, I can get that same feeling I get the day after the shot, but have that puppy every single day.
I’m subbed to your thread. I like reading your progress and really hope you can find the balance you are looking for.
300mg! I’d like to try a blast at some point and that’s where I was thinking of starting…you must have felt amazing. Losing the juice…not a good feeling. Why markers were out of range that would lead your doc to think they are too high and could cause long term risk? My HTC has hovered between 45-47 and my PSA is 0.5. Those are really the only things my doc looks at for “guard rails” to make sure I’m all good. Keep the updates coming!