At the time, these were my numbers
Free T: 543.1 (Ref 35-155)
Total T: 2889 (Ref 250-1100)
DHT: 133 (Ref 16-79)
Seems pretty high to me!
I assume you did the more expensive total T test to see that value? The one Iāve been doing only goes to 1500 (which I am over apparently)
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I think itās the lc/ms test that shows about 1500
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Hmm, itās the only one Iāve had. Itās the standard panel through Quest Diagnostics.
Definitely super high but I felt infinitely better there than I do now. Just feel itās risky to stay that high, based on input Iāve received.
I bet if you get to 30-35 youāll be fine . If not you might have a need to clear the system of toxins. They could be causing this need.
Well, on my last test I was actually at 422, which is why Iām struggling to understand why my libido has been so bad. Had sex last night for the first time in probably 2 weeks.
beta adrenergic receptor upregulation induced by AAS can be a bitch to those predisposed. Beta blockade works well, otherwise wait it out, but can be super uncomfortable. I just take beta blockers 24/7 (via prescription) for anxiety/social anxietyā¦ soā¦ problem solved
Jesus Christ dude, youāre FT is slightly more than 2x top 1 percent of men
(this clearly establishes a ref range should be about 350-1200)ā¦ not like 90-600 like many ref ranges are showing nowadays. My SHBG is typically between 10-20 and to get THESE kind of numbers as a cAVG (in terms of free T) Iād probably requireā¦ I want to say 300-400mg/wk (depending on injection site and method of administration), my TT would be around 2000ng/dl, perhaps a bit higher (going by previous bloods)ā¦ bet the gains would be sick though, actually I took 375mg this week, just this week though (help me focus/study harder), then its 250mg test 100mg mast (cycle/surpa cruise not TRT), not for long term, more intermediate (say next 10 weeks or so)
If you were to run free with such concentrations youād potentially run into problems 30-40 years down the line (I donāt know how old you are, Iām going by my age and thus would assume polycythemia doesnāt develop), this depends on genetics though, perhaps youād see problems sooner, or not at all. Itās all individual, we merely donāt have enough data. I could go into great detail about the rodent studies (correlation and flaws), meta analysis/studies AAS and cardiac pathology, dosing, duration and mechanisms behind cardiovascular damage however itād make this post like 10000000 words long. So @bkb333 if you wish for me to clog this thread with a fucking massive commentary on cardiovascular health tell me and Iāll happily do it lol. (in a few days though, have two tests coming up). Itās somewhat complicated, what dose equates to harm isnāt known, the lowest dose (in a human study) Iāve seen to be adequately demonstrated as harmful was 475mg/wk I believe (impaired vasoreactivity and autonomic dysfunction detected post exercise compared to controls)
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Yes there is nothing showing harm is caused. Nothing.
Obviously you donāt take more than you need. Give the body what it needs to feel well. If you feel good at 20 and take 60, i wouldnāt feel good doing that.
In this case I think he needs to give it some
Time and i bet heāll be fine. I just canāt see someone needing a 50 free t to feel good.
I have seen 25-35.
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The above study hasnāt no correlation to speaking about potential harms induced by testosterone. A free T of 50 probably wonāt kill op anytime soon, however it certainly isnāt the healthiest option long term. But with a very healthy lifestyle chances are (welllā¦ we just donāt know) but Iād say (probably because Iām biased and/or scared of the concept of my own mortality lol) heād be somewhat fine.
Remember 40 years down the line Iām almost 70, referring to my first post on here. If Iām alive at 70 you can certainly be assured Iām not using 250mg/wkā¦
Sounds like we are close in age ā Iām 28.
What do you plan to do after the 10 weeks? What is a āfloorā T dose for you? Iām always interested in this info from guys running cycles who clearly know what theyāre talking about, check their bloodwork, read the literature, etc.
Thatās how I feel about it, too. Iād probably be fine at 50 for the foreseeable futureā¦but donāt want to run into serious health problems around 60/70.
I just donāt understand how I can have a free T of 42 and still feel like dog shit with zero libido. That sounds impossible, right? Itās hard to wrap my head around. Everyone says you should feel like a champion at 30ā¦but I only felt good when I got as high as 50.
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I wonder if you just need more time to adjust to itā¦ the whole any change is a dosage change thing, so youāll feel not great for 5, 6ā¦ 7 weeks even? I dunno. Just an idea.
Libido isnt merely hormone mediated. Neurological imbalance typically induces lack of libido. Hormones/androgen metabolites typically have profound effects on neurotransmission, hence the effect on libido, regardless imbalances within neurotransmission can still occur on TRT, in which case libido will be fucked.
As to ācyclingā I donāt really cycle. I suppose you could call 250mg test 100mg mast a cycle (however on a mg/mg basis drostanolone is profoundly weaker than testosterone) itās about the anabolic equivalent of 300mg T/wk. this is Byblos far the highest dose Iāve ever used. Will probably even use dbol for 4-5 days or so (any longer and I induce indigestion and gastrointestinal discomfort). Iām not using such doses for the entirety though, itās more like
weeks 1-5
250mg test
100mg mast
weeks 5-9
250mg test
weeks 9-12 150mg test
from then on 200mg test indefinitely
I get bloodwork done a few times per year, typically lipids, LFT, kidney function, complete blood count, glucose tolerance, Hba1c sometimes CRP and cardiac markers. Iāve had EKGās done, and a stress test about six months ago (however this is inherently overkill, as my dosages are relatively benign compared to what most on the Pharma forum use, nor does literature particularly demonstrate my doses are able to induce immense harm over the duration of which Iāve used), stillā¦ better safe than sorry.
That being said most of these tests (EKG/echo) are not done under the guise of me being on AAS, as unfortunately due to stigma being immense (seriously, literature demonstrates doctors harbour less stigma towards being recreationally and regularly using cocaine comparative to testosterone shots) me admitting AAS use would go down badly for future doctors visits (on my medical file) and health insurance, nor would I be able to donate blood, as the Red Cross supposedly lumps in anabolic steroids with sharing needlesā¦ I inject with the same syringe I shoot my TRT with, not gonna gets AIDS from thatā¦
I canāt say what Iām doing is healthyā¦ because it isnāt, chances are down the line Iāll regret my decisions deeply. At the moment I suffer from chronic pain and a myriad of problems that make me prone to bullying, discrimination/exclusion and injury, AAS merely improves my quality of life dramatically (aside from having legitimate hypogonadism of which TRT is prescribed for) to the point where at this moment Iām not particularly phased by potential long term risk. I donāt intend to use these compounds past my mid 20ās, however you never know what the future holds, perhaps in some extremely unlikely scenario Iāll compete (always been a dream of mine to attempt stepping up on stage, but my chronic pain/joint ailments probably wonāt allow that to happen)
Literature is conflicting, and from reading I personally appear to perceive a lot of bias, that being said the health risks are real, and potentially worrying, the level of SCD within the fitness community (sudden cardiac death) isnāt something that can be ignored, nor is the casual correlation between AAS/PEDS and dilated cardiomyopathyā¦ Cardiac myocytes contain androgen receptors, AAS act upon androgen receptors to induce enhanced gene expression/much of itās hypertrophic stimuli, with enough stimulation, these cardiac cells would theoretically grow. What degree of stimulation is needed for growth, the level of deleterious effect such growth has and whatnot is hotly debated, and frankly due to the generally illicit nature of the substance and lack of use within the medical profession (in relation to the absurdly high dosages we see implemented and combinations of substances) we will never know if X causes Y, we are limited to case studies, rodent models and meta analysis (of which are highly, highly flawed in nature)
One may be able to mitigate risk with a healthy lifestyle, antioxidant supplementation known to induce improvements in cardiac health (lipid profiles, endothelial function etc), keeping BP in check (majority of AAS users suffer from prolonged hypertension, high BP is a silent killer, inducing detrimental cardiac hypertrophy, renal damage etc predisposing one to arrythmia, renal failure, strokes etc), keeping HCT under control, maintaining a decent lipid profile, avoiding c17AA compounds as much as possible, implementing cardiovascular exercise (actually this one is super important, I run 5-6km/day at an incline to mitigate stress on patellofemoral joint on top of weight training for 1.5-2 hours per dayā¦ probably overkill however due to my personality I find if I donāt exercise excessively I feel like absolute shitā¦ somewhat sad and perhaps concerning in relation to identifying a potentially addictive nature within my personality, but it is what it is)
Should be noted with or without drugs, such a routine as specified above will induce pathologic cardiac hypertrophy. The topic of athletes heart and cardiovascular risk factors is also rather controversial, it appears excessive endurance training may lead to myocardial fibrosis and athletes heart as a whole, much later down the line in life may drastically increase the risk for atrial fibrillationā¦ or not, data is conflicting. I have mild autonomic dysfunction, thus my HR variability is absurd, however my RHR at times is sub 50 BPM, lowest Iāve recorded (awake) is 39 beats per minute. Typically around 55-60BPM though, elevated post intensive exercise though. 90bpm for about 20 mins after (if I get my HR up to 170-180 and keep it there for a good 15 minutes) then drops to 75 for a few hours before going back to resting pace. Alcohol for me (if I have more than say 2-3 drinks) while not inebriating me in any way will induce elevated HR, to a dose dependent tachycardia. Thankfully I rarely, rarely drink so this isnāt an issueā¦ However I am going on holiday to Europeā¦ soooā¦ Cannabis does the same thing, but to a lesser extent (say max elevation would be 15-20BPM above baseline). HR elevation is common amongst people who acutely drink alcohol and/or smoke cannabis however I particularly appear to be sensitive to alcohol, itās one of the most poisonous substances we can put in our bodies, so be careful with that if running high Tā¦ or notā¦ Iām not youāre father, do whatever you want to do
Iām eighteen, isnāt that just super depressing
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18 and youāve already learned all that? Man, the internet is a magical place. I donāt think you have much to worry about.
I hear you, man. But it had been 2 months and libido had gone from like an 8/10 to 1/10. That seems extreme
Does caffeine do the same?
For me, caffeine seems to have a more pronounced effect on HR when my T dose is higher. I donāt drink so canāt speak to alcoholās effects.
Yes, prior to and post trt though. I generally donāt react well to stimulants
So you found a doctor who put you on TRT at 18? Kind of surprising