That’s what I think you should do also. Take it slow and let your metabolism recover. Reverse dieting is a concept I believe people should follow but don’t believe the majority do. I should follow my own advice though so I can’t talk much haha. I don’t even have half the self control I need for even starting to cut right now and seriously need to.
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Agreed, brother – it’s really tough when people (especially someone with the authority of a doctor) say things like “you need to be eating more,” and you obviously want to comply and just go nuts. But I don’t think a 300-400 calorie increase will do me any harm. It hasn’t so far, at least.
I am intrigued by the idea of reverse dieting. Some people say it’s a myth. I don’t buy that. I think you really can rebuild your metabolism if you do it the right way, and I’m sure there are many bodybuilders who would back me up on that.
What are your cals at right now, and what would you need to be at to cut? There are a number of hacks to help control hunger, with some more heavy-handed (e.g., Metformin) than others. Happy to pass along anything I’ve learned along this cut that would be helpful.
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Haven’t been tracking for a while now so not sure what I am consuming right now. According to a calculator I just used 3100 is my base, so a little over 2100 would be 2lbs a week. Honestly though I think my metabolism isn’t working that great. I hit calories that low and not feel I consumed much less, than a typical day and don’t lose much, if anything, and get pissed and give up after a few weeks. I have DHEA coming in the mail so will give that a try and been thinking of asking the doc about metformin. I need to investigate my thyroid more, before TRT my thyroid numbers weren’t horrible but weren’t great and did not test free t3 so definitley could be a problem there.
All that being said though my biggest hurdle right now is my mindset. I keep trying to change it but my mindset with dieting is a struggle that I haven’t been able to break through.
Sounds like you have a solid plan man! Get yourself some tunnel vision and get er done!
Don’t know what my E2 was, but I’m sure it was really high. I’ll know my E2 at my next labs on my current lowered dose.
My doc was trained by Neal Rouzier so he is very anti-AI. I lowered my dose to 14mg daily from 30mg daily. I can’t say I feel great, but the heart racing and shortness of breath are completely gone. I only have a tiny bit of anxiety rarely and the insomnia is better. Still insomnia but not as bad. I am taking 5mg ambien to sleep until my 30mg doses get out of my system (another week or two). I can still work out, libido is much lower, but I have hope that everything will be good once I have things dialed in. A couple weeks ago I was like forget this, I’m doing an HPTA restart. No one can live like this.
If T levels were linear with T dosage then I’d guess my ideal dose would end up somewhere 18mg-20mg daily. Of course, that’s not how it works and I’m scared to death of being too high so I don’t know where my best dosage will be. I am guessing it will probably take me 4-6 months from now to get to it though.
Yes, one of the three docs I talked to does 1xweek injections of 200mg with 1mg anastrazole. I have never used an AI and probably would only consider it if I am unable to get to where I am feeling good on T injections without it.
Yes, only done scrotal cream and daily injections. If my SHBG is high on my next labs I will definitely consider going to E3.5D injections.
Hmm, is Keith Nichols your doctor? I have a lot of respect for him, though he’s a polarizing figure in the TRT space. It sounds like you have a good provider either way.
Did you feel better on the 30 mg, sleep notwithstanding? I’d love to see your perception on a 0-10 scale for each dosage, if you wouldn’t mind, as I figure out how much to lower my dosage.
I haven’t tried Ambien – why’d you go this route instead of melatonin? I am currently using melatonin + theanine.
Agreed, and probably a little longer for me – we’re both gonna get there, though!
Sounds like someone you wouldn’t want to work with, IMO. (I’m sure you already know this.) His protocol seems antiquated.
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DHT nothing to worry about . I can give you studies and documentation over the last 50 years and DHT has never caused an issue. On cream it’s even higher so enjoy the DHT. Only balding issues occur. Prostate maintains its own DHT level and is not effected by DHT in the blood stream.
DHT is also sold Over the counter in
Other countries.
High reverse t3 is going to turn out bad in the long run. I believe this is competing against freet3.
They give less t4 and more t3 when someone has this issue and needs thyroid.
Yeah, we were thinking about thyroid meds, but decided against it because my doctor said it could negatively affect my SHBG — and we don’t want to mess with that at this point (beyond using Danazol and T to get it lower).
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Nope. Just one of the many docs trained and mentored by Neil Rouzier.
On the cream I felt like a solid 10. Just totally amazing. On 30mg injections I felt like a 6 (until the sides kicked in then I was a 0). Note, I only lasted 28 days on the 30mg injections so I don’t know if I would’ve felt better eventually. On the 14mg injections which I have been on exactly 3 weeks, I feel like a 2 but I have had side effects still from the 30mg injections which are still in my system. If the insomnia resolves at 14mg I would say I feel like a 6 (roughly same as on the 30mg before sides kicked in). It’s hard to rate how I feel as I haven’t been on the doses long enough and the insomnia dominates how I feel.
I went ambien because my doc prescribed it, I tried magnesium glycinate and tryptophan already, and because the forum said that some people had success with the supplements but most people had success with the ambien. I was desperate for sleep and my doc said there were no issues using ambien short term so I went for it. I only take 5mg (instead of 10mg prescribed) and has worked great except for one night.
Ya, the 1xweek injections of 200mg with 1mg anastrazole sounds insane, but a LOT of TRT docs/clinics seem to do that as their standard protocol. I’m not interested in that outdated protocol, but I am starting to be open to the idea of a tiny dose of AI if I can’t get to a point where I feel good on TRT without it.
Even if you need a small dose at the beginning, after a while most guys adjust and do not need it. It’s more of a coping mechanism in the early going.
Just to be clear, are you referring to the ambien?
Nice. How has your experience been with this doctor? Sounds like a bright dude. Telemedicine or local? Cash pay only (no insurance)? I like gathering intel on good providers — can always be helpful to know who’s out there.
Thanks for providing those scales; very helpful! How long did you last on the cream? Would you say the acne was the only real side effect you were experiencing with the cream (aside from convenience)? If that is the case, I’m surprised you made the switch to injections. I hit a ‘10’ on the cream a couple times, but it was very short-lived, and I didn’t like all the ‘peaks and valleys’ I was experiencing.
I’ve felt a lot more consistent/steady on injections, and I feel my libido is finally starting to pick up a bit. I actually wanted to have sex twice in three days this week — that may not sound like much, but it’s a lot more than I’ve become accustomed to! I’ve also been sleeping a lot better for about 9 days now. Think my body may be adapting to the injections after a rough transitory period.
I’m in the same boat about the AI. I was 100% closed off to the idea for a while, and still mainly am, but I am now leaving the door slightly ajar. It may be the only option (at a very low dose) for guys in our particular situation (provided you are, in fact, very high SHBG like me). But we should continue exhausting all other options first, IMO, given all the negative stuff about AIs that’s out there.
When you are talking about “peaks and valleys” on the cream are you referring just to your libido? Or were experiencing peaks and valley’s in general on the cream?
I can’t say what I was experiencing numbers-wise, but I can speak from subjective experience. Libido was hugely up and down (some days 10/10, others 0/10), and so was my sense of self. I’d have certain days where I felt like a straight up god and others where my self-confidence was, like, 10 times lower. It’s hard to describe. I haven’t experienced anything like that in any other time of life.
Is that to me? I was referring to anastrozole.
Gotcha. I actually was on an AI for about 6 months (while on hCG) but dropped it when I started TRT after reading up on Rouzier’s work.
Interesting. I can’t say I’ve seen day to day fluctuations at least enough to note. I am wondering if I am feeling the drop at the end of the day though. I’m not going to apply 2x a day though to find out lol. Another reason I’m thinking of moving to injections.
I think your math is off here. A 10 mL vial of 200/mL has a total of 2000 mg of test. If you’re dosing at 200 mg/week, then you’re good for 10 weeks not 16.
If you aren’t applying 2x per day, I bet you are feeling that drop for sure! @enackers probably can comment on this, too. I think the twice-daily application is important.
You’re totally right. I was only counting one application per week, for some reason. It does last about 10 weeks (slightly less when I was dosing at 260 mg/week).