I know Jordan Peters IRL not on a friends basis but I am friends with someone who he is best friends with and my friend told me he told him as a novice to read everything Dante put out on the forums and he also said he advises full body single set training with upper body compounds in the 6-10 rep range, 8-12 for arm isolation and 15-25 for legs.
I just bought his ebook and most of his advice seems real similar to DC training except its not rest pause based.
I agree with this.
JP was. Dante Disciple for about a decade, if memory servesā¦ Iāve been a Dante fanboy since before i knew I was a Dante fanboy.
I would still recommend what i said above. JPs stuff is failure based training and not for beginners. This type of training isnāt exactly āfunā either. I do it because I must if Iām going to continue to grow.
Most definitely reading with a grain of salt. Thatās why I came here for some realistic advice. The 1lb per week that @swoops39 mentioned seems right in line with what my goals would be. I donāt expect 15 lbs of muscle to pack on in 8 weeks.
This is a silly question but sounds like the effects basically that I can walk around with no pump, looking like I do with a pump now? If so, wouldnāt be terrible for the summer months.
And thanks for noticing the delts haha. They pop more than anything. I reeeealy need to get my chest in order itās lagging so fucking bad.
I would be too. I think because of a few things (bloat weight, people underestimating fat gains, under trained / teenagers running cycles, regaining lost muscle from cycling off and on), many people have unrealistic expectations for gear. Think about buying 5 lbs of lean ground beef and distributing that around your body. Itās more than youād think.
Iāve heard a few guys I know personally say they got leaner during their cycle, while gaining weight. Everyone else was thinking they got fat.
Sure the genetic elite may be able to put on a lot of mass early on with gear. That isnāt very many people though.
For me, 5 lbs of lean tissue could happen with a simple blast like this (50 mg of Var on top or TRT for 6 weeks), but only in certain circumstances. After a big cut where muscle is depleted is one (I might even gain 8-12 lbs, but some of it is putting water back on). There though, it isnāt new muscle I am building, muscle memory is on my side.
Totally agree. I didnāt want to be contrarian, but when @Andrewgen_Receptors said 10 lbs would be barely noticeable I have to disagree respectfully.
I think that was @hankthetank89. He is also like 260 lbs, so being bigger makes changes like 5 lbs less noticeable.
I was planning on disagreeing with these statements until I realized that you are purely talking about the cosmetic component and aesthetics aspect that usually come with lifting weights. What if the OP is interested in strength gains?
Iām sure everyone would agree if you were to say that there is a natural limit regarding strength gains as well. However, unlike aesthetic and cosmetic goals, Iād say over 90% of us have not reached our natural or TRT genetic limit in regards to strength. And Iāve always abided by the principle the stronger the muscle the bigger the muscle. However the possible downside (depending on goals) is that in order to maximize strength you absolutely need to eat in order to gain muscle size. But every caloric surplus entails a certain amount of fat gain that most bodybuilders are not comfortable with.
So what you have is a lot of bodybuilders doing numerous cycles, staying the same weight and spinning their wheels for years on end and simply not getting anywhere.
Solution: add more drugs. Otherwise youāve reached your natural limit. But which limit? A limit to visible abs? Certainly not their maximal strength limit.
But I realize that our criteria differs since you say things like āthere is nothing on the planet that looks better than abs doā while I donāt pay much attention to mine or at least try to not make having a six pack my end goal.
To sum it up, I think with proper training and nutrition, the OP could definitely gain 5 quality pounds of muscle on TRT alone. He just needs to eat.
Iāll defer this lol
Hold up 10lbs of meat. Imagine that spread out over your musclesā¦ its noticeable.
Well stated and accurate.
Apologies. Had you guys mixed up.
Understanding the gains will fade once off the Var, but if the gains are aesthetic AND legit muscle is it correct to assume the overall Var aesthetics will fade quickly, but the actual muscle gained should be maintainable with continued TRT/diet/training.
Really appreciate all the help so far fellas. Communities like this are fantastic.
Nope, but once you get back on a cycle the gains will return quicker than you got them the first time. I donāt believe TRT comes anywhere in the ball park of a good cycle.
Maybe. It depends on if the growth you got could have been achieved on your TRT dose alone over a longer period of time. Yeah, higher doses may shift the muscle you can hold up a bit (especially if you got huge with large doses). My understanding is that this isnāt in the ball park of double digit lbs of muscle, more like a few lbs.
Because of this, IMO, large blasts donāt make sense, unless the cruise / TRT is also high, or a lower dose cruise / TRT is brief (spending more time blasting than cruise / TRT).
One thing to consider is just to take your TRT dose and multiply it by 2.5X. You wonāt get the cosmetic effects like Var, but the results may be more maintainable (given you could get there over a longer period of time with the TRT dose).
I would say āyesā. If you had gotten massive, then you might lose some, but thatād be a good 40+lbs heavier than youād be getting here - so no worries.
Last night I bought two 8oz filets for dinner. If I could put each one of those on my delts, Iād be happy granted Iām 6ā 200lbs, not 260.
So say he gains 5lbs from using Var, and stays on TRT, continues to workout and eat well, heād lose that 5lbs? I just donāt see how that happens if the gainz were actual muscle and not just water and pump
Thatās my thought as well but admittedly, I am a complete noob with this.
I think the issue is keeping the training how it was with the extra AAS in the mix. I didnāt get much with Var (perhaps not for me, or bunk), but with Tbol (which I think is comparable), the top end strength and strength endurance went up. I didnāt feel sore on high test and tbol. I was fresh (or at least more fresh) for each training session.
Yeah, I guess it depends on your starting point and individual response. I didnāt see much of a strength boost from Var, but I did feel like I had more energy to just keep lifting. There was always something in the tank. That went away when I stopped the cycle
First he wonāt gain 5 lbs of pure muscle in a low dose Var in my humble opinion only. Heās already been on TRT and milked his new growth to reach what I would call his new resting homeostasis. This is the place his body will return to sans other hormones. Unless OP is extremely underdeveloped for his frame, the new growth will mostly disappear after cessation with very little to show.
I agree on the 5 lbs being not realistic in that time frame.
At 6ā2" 195, I think he can improve. I believe my resting homeostasis is a bit higher than this at 5ā10" if I was the same body fat %, and his genetics donāt look bad to me.
To get to that more muscle homeostasis, I think training and diet are what gets him there.